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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 2014 Cadillac CTS to pack twin-turbo V6 420hp 430tq



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      07-27-2013, 11:01 AM   #45
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Yes looks like water cooled heat exchangers, same thing BMW and Audi have been using for years on all the twin turbo V8's - GM doesn't invent anything anymore, they just buy stuff from suppliers that others have developed!
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      07-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #46
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Why is this in thread in this section though? I understand we are comparing it to a BMW and the N54/N55 platforms but this isn't about BMW Engine Modifications. Its regarding a Cadillac.
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      07-27-2013, 02:33 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Yes looks like water cooled heat exchangers, same thing BMW and Audi have been using for years on all the twin turbo V8's - GM doesn't invent anything anymore, they just buy stuff from suppliers that others have developed!
I guess the only thing that they have "invented" is that the put the heat exchangers inside the intake manifold instead of somewhere else in the engine bay...
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      07-27-2013, 02:37 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizm0 View Post
I guess the only thing that they have "invented" is that the put the heat exchangers inside the intake manifold instead of somewhere else in the engine bay...
Nope, lots of diesels already do that. One example is the 4 Cylinder Dodge Cummins on things like wood chippers etc. Its been done for a long time for packaging reasons.
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      07-27-2013, 02:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Nope, lots of diesels already do that. One example is the 4 Cylinder Dodge Cummins on things like wood chippers etc. Its been done for a long time for packaging reasons.
Hmmm, I guess they're full of shit then.

Look at the inside of the intake manifold, it looks like a terrible design for air flow...

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      07-27-2013, 03:59 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slidewayz View Post
The CTS weighs 4,000 pounds.
The 2014 CTS is said to weigh 3600lbs which is awesome for the size.
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      07-27-2013, 05:45 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Yes looks like water cooled heat exchangers, same thing BMW and Audi have been using for years on all the twin turbo V8's - GM doesn't invent anything anymore, they just buy stuff from suppliers that others have developed!
If you read the press release you would know that the design is very similar to the one used for the LSA/LS9 program developed in 2008 not Audi or BMW.

Saying they just buy from suppliers is ignorant and pretty disrespectful to GM's engineering staff which I think is one of the best out right now.
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      07-27-2013, 07:27 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizm0 View Post
Hmmm, I guess they're full of shit then.

Look at the inside of the intake manifold, it looks like a terrible design for air flow...

FYI

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Overall, air flow routing volume is reduced by more than 60 percent when compared with a conventional design that features a chassis-mounted intercooler. The water-to-air cooler system achieves more than 80 percent cooling efficiency with only about 1 psi (7 kPa) flow restriction at peak power for fast torque production. By doing so, the engine’s compressors are able to draw air directly from the inlet box and send pressurized air through the intercooler immediately.
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      07-28-2013, 07:48 AM   #53
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I wish they bmw would go on a diet rather than hit the gym any harder.
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      07-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #54
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All that power and it hits 0-60 in 4.6 seconds? That's close to what a 335 does with the power kit. I wish caddilacs styling was better, it still doesn't do anything for me.
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      07-28-2013, 11:32 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS
All that power and it hits 0-60 in 4.6 seconds? That's close to what a 335 does with the power kit. I wish caddilacs styling was better, it still doesn't do anything for me.
Just quick if not quicker than a 550...
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      07-29-2013, 10:12 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
If you read the press release you would know that the design is very similar to the one used for the LSA/LS9 program developed in 2008 not Audi or BMW.

Saying they just buy from suppliers is ignorant and pretty disrespectful to GM's engineering staff which I think is one of the best out right now.
Just spit coffee all over my monitor! Good one man!
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      07-29-2013, 11:42 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS View Post
All that power and it hits 0-60 in 4.6 seconds? That's close to what a 335 does with the power kit. I wish caddilacs styling was better, it still doesn't do anything for me.
Keep in mind that you have to make suspension and tire compromises if you want to sell a car like this in mass quantities. The VSpec cars will have better suspensions and tires.
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      07-29-2013, 01:59 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT-Tom View Post
Just spit coffee all over my monitor! Good one man!



The assertion that GM was copying their design from Audi and BMW was just ignorant to me. GM has had experience with turbo motors since at least the 70's. To think they couldn't design something like this on their own doesn't make sense especially when they used a similar design before the BMW/Audi designs were introduced to the market.

I'd put them over the the Japanese Big 3 and Ford/Chrysler in terms of engineering power. In terms of top to bottom, only VW, BMW, and Mercedes can really compete in sheer ability. They have to design everything from hybrids, to pickups, to sportscars and everything in between. And right now, I think they are doing a damn good job of it especially the sport/performance cars. And its not that they are just fast, the Impala, ATS, Camaro and most likely the C7 and CTS will be among the top driving cars in their class as well.

Just my opinion though. You don't have to agree. That's why we have forums.
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      07-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #59
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Laughing at people in this thread acting as though they have 1/10th of the knowledge GM engineers have about engine design.
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      07-29-2013, 06:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post



The assertion that GM was copying their design from Audi and BMW was just ignorant to me. GM has had experience with turbo motors since at least the 70's. To think they couldn't design something like this on their own doesn't make sense especially when they used a similar design before the BMW/Audi designs were introduced to the market.

I'd put them over the the Japanese Big 3 and Ford/Chrysler in terms of engineering power. In terms of top to bottom, only VW, BMW, and Mercedes can really compete in sheer ability. They have to design everything from hybrids, to pickups, to sportscars and everything in between. And right now, I think they are doing a damn good job of it especially the sport/performance cars. And its not that they are just fast, the Impala, ATS, Camaro and most likely the C7 and CTS will be among the top driving cars in their class as well.

Just my opinion though. You don't have to agree. That's why we have forums.
I suppose, but as far as innovation the Germans have always had a HUGE leg up. D.I, AWD, direct shift gear boxes, diesel cars, supercharged cars, engines with more than one valve, ABS, CAN bus, ESP, multilink suspension, airbags and a host of other things; note 959...

I work in the industry and have to say, the issues I see with quality control on GM's, no matter the make, are beyond excuse. I admit the German cars I have owned have not been perfect but at least they are good enough in most areas to outweigh the minor issues I've seen. The quality of any GM interior, you'll agree if you've been in one, even the Cady is rental car status. I will give it to the newer CTS-v at being a great car, however its not REALLY a GM. It just seems like every GM I see needs something, I've seen countless of them come through needing work with sub 20k miles on them, TONS of electrical shit; airbag faults, module failures... also just had a Colorado come through with 32k miles have a stretched timing chain, was off a tooth and needed a rebuild. I have lost faith with GM, if anything Ford is turning a new leaf with all of the eco boost cars ( ik they are designed in Belgium but still) and they didn't take $30 billion in taxs and flush it down the toilet, and Chrysler paid their bailout back, now with the Grand Cherokee has one of the most competitive SUVs available. Also the new Ram with best in class fuel economy, towing capability, braking, power, and amazing zf 8 speed. Not only that the Dart has great mileage with much more interior volume than the curze and without the 140ft+ 60-0 braking fiasco or the steering wheel recalls (5 open for different issues causing the wheel to fall off), or the random engine fires, or rattle trap interior... I don't know maybe its just the ones I see, but it seems to me they are wasting all of our money. Just look at quality reports from NADA, KBB, edmounds, or any customer satisfaction surveys. They may make an ok car here and there but it will be inherently cheaply made/designed with MASSIVE profit in mind, not quality. Just sayin... If anything i'd actually put Mazda on top of the list for engineering now that they are on their own again. The skyactiv tech is very impressive, also their new diesel is tearing it up in GT, and its 60 mpg or better in a full sized sedan WITHOUT hybrid bs or DEF...
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      07-29-2013, 07:54 PM   #61
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I didn't say anything about innovation even though GM can hold their own there.

My experience with GM has been pretty good. My Corvette was damn near bulletproof and I beat the crap out of that car.

And no, I don't think the ATS, XTS, CTS, or Escalade is rental car status compared to my E90. Maybe we were in different cars.
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