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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > Junkman's stance: Wax does NOT add shine



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      08-02-2013, 02:48 AM   #1
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Junkman's stance: Wax does NOT add shine

Hey guys. Today I had an epiphany while randomly thinking about Junkman's statement that wax does not add shine. I believe this to be very true, but only in a specific case and I wanted to see your guy's opinion and thoughts. I believe this to be true if the paint is polished to excellent condition. HOWEVER, if they paint has some very light swirls and maybe some very light hazing and maybe even some super light oxidation, a coating of wax will in fact enhance the shine of a car's paint.

Call me dumb, but it was a break through moment for me because I've been stumped on the fact that I can't upsell a more expensive wax because I tell all my customers that ask, that wax does not make your car shinier. But I realized, in many cases it actually does because not everyone's car will be as perfect as can be. A wax should fill in the gaps, to some extent, of light swirling and hazing, creating the same illusion as if a layer of water is running over less than perfect paint. Waxes with fillers will provide an even better illusion of flawless paint.

So my argument is: Wax will make most average joe's cars shinier because it hides blemishes. But wax will NOT make a perfectly polished car any shinier than it already is (as junkman demonstrated).

What are your guy's thoughts?
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      08-02-2013, 07:39 AM   #2
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Not all waxes hide blemishes. A lot of the ones that do hide minor hazing contain fillers. Wax that contains fillers are known to be of cheap quality. For me, wax is only >5-10% of the look. Its all in the prep work. The only wax I have seen that you can actually tell it added a look is Celeste. It darkens the paint noticeably. I still like more expensive waxes because of their durability and ease of use.
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      08-02-2013, 08:39 AM   #3
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if you want to add shine an fill up scratches and swirls go with a glaze.
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      08-02-2013, 10:33 AM   #4
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Good to know guys. I guess the underlying question is.. what are some techniques to sell to a customer a higher priced wax. Like Otruba said, they are more durable, BUT the customer doesn't really see the value of it being easy to use. I would feel wrong to tell them that it looks more wet, or more shiny. I can honestly only say, it lasts longer, it smells nicer lol, you get the pleasure of knowing you are using a pricier wax lol. For some, knowing they are using a boutique wax like swissvax might make them feel good. These people are usually major enthusiasts or just have too much money to know what to do with it.

Should the thought of upselling a higher priced wax be removed altogether? and direct my attention to upselling to a sealant or coating?
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      08-02-2013, 12:21 PM   #5
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First listen to the client to find out what his needs are, Is he looking for just a quick wax, or long term protection, etc. Then give him options and explain to him in simple english why one option is better than the other (example: explain why going with a sealant would be better than a wax or why going with a coating would be better than wax or sealant). Allow the client to make the choice, don't push them into a product they may not want
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      08-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #6
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Not all higher end waxes are more durable as a blanket statement. If you used that you could get challenged by a customer, Fuzion for example.
If durability is the key upsell sealants and coatings, if quality and that 5% look is what they want upsell a quality wax, if what they want is a general cleanup, marginally better looks sell a glaze and a cheaper house wax, and finally if they want perfection(that 90% removal) then it's a polish and one of the above. It's sort of a menu system and they can pick from your recommendations. It's good to offer options because some care and some don't and it varies from vehicle to vehicle.
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      08-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #7
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How much do you guys tack on for a sealant upgrade? Is $10 a reasonable price? To the customer the value is double the duration. Could i possibly charge 15 or 20? Right now im trying to find that sweet spot for my pricing. Thanks in advance!
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      08-02-2013, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangsta View Post
How much do you guys tack on for a sealant upgrade? Is $10 a reasonable price? To the customer the value is double the duration. Could i possibly charge 15 or 20? Right now im trying to find that sweet spot for my pricing. Thanks in advance!
I would say closer to $15-$20. You are trying to make a profit, besides they don't know how much Menzerna Powerlock actually costs lol. It's one of the cheapest, but 1 of the best. You could almost make all your money back that you spent on PL with one application and remember only 2 drops per panel. You don't have to use specific product names either, in fact don't because they can go home and look up the price of the product and see if they are paying too much. The more ignorant they are, the better. You could use words like "Premium" or "Concours" wax. People love glittering generalities, but use them in moderation on your description. You can make them feel like they are getting something special when they choose the $30+ up charge for a premium wax when in reality it could only be something like a $50 pot of wax. You can always experiment with the up charge prices. Start high, but not too high and back the price down if need be.

For example
Standard wax: Poorboys Natty Red $25 a pot
-Up charge- $0 (but include $10 in the price because you have to charge something for the product)

Premium wax: Bouncers Sherbert Fizz $50-$60 a pot
-Up charge $20-$30

Concours wax: a $150-$200+ Zymol/Swissvax
-Up charge $50 and up depending on price of the wax
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      08-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FI PETE View Post
First listen to the client to find out what his needs are...
This is a great point. A great salesman will gives logical and rewarding reasons why his client should choose one product over another. To do this successfully, you have to listen and stop trying to sell him. Fulfilling a need is different than selling products for the sole purpose of generating $$$$.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangsta View Post
How much do you guys tack on for a sealant upgrade? Is $10 a reasonable price? To the customer the value is double the duration. Could i possibly charge 15 or 20? Right now im trying to find that sweet spot for my pricing. Thanks in advance!
You might want to build this in to your service. You should consider using a menu system have 3 to 4 levels of service (Basic, Delux, Premium, Concourse). Premium and Concourse products will be use for their respective levels. The amount of Paint corrections a client receives should also align to the levels accordingly. This might be easier for the clients to understand.

The good thing about the ala-cart method is that client will get exactly what they paid for but this might be a turn-off for a lot of people since they will feel that they are being "nickel and dime" to death.

Read Renny Doyle's book regarding this subject (How to start a home-based Car Detailing Business).
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Last edited by psnt1ol; 08-02-2013 at 08:01 PM.
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      08-02-2013, 07:12 PM   #10
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Good info guys.. I really dont like upselling customers and coming off as a sleezy sales. I will refine my method of fullfilling the customers needs
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      08-02-2013, 08:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangsta View Post
Good info guys.. I really dont like upselling customers and coming off as a sleezy sales. I will refine my method of fullfilling the customers needs
Just let them choose what they want done unless they ask for your help, recommendation, or opinion.
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      08-14-2013, 07:00 PM   #12
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By nature, wax will somewhat fill voids in the paint(swirls, ect.). In most cases it will just take off the edge a bit and improve the appearance slightly.
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      08-14-2013, 07:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otruba_843 View Post
I would say closer to $15-$20. You are trying to make a profit, besides they don't know how much Menzerna Powerlock actually costs lol. It's one of the cheapest, but 1 of the best. You could almost make all your money back that you spent on PL with one application and remember only 2 drops per panel. You don't have to use specific product names either, in fact don't because they can go home and look up the price of the product and see if they are paying too much. The more ignorant they are, the better. You could use words like "Premium" or "Concours" wax. People love glittering generalities, but use them in moderation on your description. You can make them feel like they are getting something special when they choose the $30+ up charge for a premium wax when in reality it could only be something like a $50 pot of wax. You can always experiment with the up charge prices. Start high, but not too high and back the price down if need be.

For example
Standard wax: Poorboys Natty Red $25 a pot
-Up charge- $0 (but include $10 in the price because you have to charge something for the product)

Premium wax: Bouncers Sherbert Fizz $50-$60 a pot
-Up charge $20-$30

Concours wax: a $150-$200+ Zymol/Swissvax
-Up charge $50 and up depending on price of the wax
In my experience, this is a waste of effort. Most clients don't care what wax is used.

I suggest that a professional take the time to find out what specifically fits the owner's/car's lifestyle. For example. Are they wanting longevity and ease of maintenance? Are they wanting the cheapest price(in my case I refer them somewhere else as that brings a ton of issues with a quality-focused professional)? Do they want something for a garage queen and they don't care if it has zero longevity as long as it looks nice. 99/100 times they want longevity, knowing there is no real noticeable visual difference between a powerlock and zymol whatever. But that is where educating the client comes in.

I used to keep on top of having a ton of wax options and found it was wasted effort. What most people want is correction and something to protect(sealant/ocp/cQf). There is such a thing as too many options and too much information to throw at a client. Keep it simple and keep your packages concise and specific.

Time should not be wasted upselling clients different options of wax. Time should be invested in educating clients and be a consultant for them. You will find that once you get them beyond the marketing hype that different wax manufacturers....ahem....manufacture, they go for the worthwhile services like paint restoration.
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      08-26-2013, 11:58 PM   #14
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as a detailer, i dont let my customers choose what they want. they let me decide what is best for them and at what price. i typically dont give them options, it will confuse them.
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      08-30-2013, 02:36 AM   #15
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Again thank you guys for your willingness to help. What are some of the questions you ask and information you tell customers to both understand the condition of their paint as well as what they want to get out of a detail. Where are my salesman that can strategically sneak in an upsale ? Because at the end of the day, business is business and if you can make an extra 50 or 100 bucks on a day where you know you dont have anything to do after that job, that is 50-100$ extra you get today rather than tomorrow. Anyways, love to hear your guys' thoughts!
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      08-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTek Will View Post
Again thank you guys for your willingness to help. What are some of the questions you ask and information you tell customers to both understand the condition of their paint as well as what they want to get out of a detail. Where are my salesman that can strategically sneak in an upsale ? Because at the end of the day, business is business and if you can make an extra 50 or 100 bucks on a day where you know you dont have anything to do after that job, that is 50-100$ extra you get today rather than tomorrow. Anyways, love to hear your guys' thoughts!

Let me begin by saying I do not have a traditional approach to sales. In short, I don't look for ways to increase the cost of a bill/service.

My approach starts with asking a client to describe what they don't currently like about the car and what they do like. I ask for them to give me a rating of how great a job they are looking for, knowing that the prices goes up with the number, 1-10 how perfect they want whatever is being done.

This information is not used as a means to increase the bill. It is there so they can communicate to me what is important to them. Then I can begin to work up a process that will fit their needs and budget. Sometimes this means I must redirect someone from a service that is beyond their budget. Sometimes I get to direct someone to a service that is less expensive than the one they thought they needed and sometimes it means they learn that the service they are asking for is not enough to meet their needs.

The bottom line should always be this:
What do they really and truly need to leave them satisfied with the service you provide? It should never be about how you can run up a bill. This is how you build a business built on trust. You will have clients that refuse to use anyone else because they know you will always attempt to guide them down the right path, not the most expensive one. These factors do not mean you sell a price point. It means you sell an end result.

The price is such a small factor when you consider what a person really wants to be satisfied with a service. It is this simple. Time is money and if someone wants it cheap, they are asking for little time to be invested and should expect a quickly done job that looks like it. There is no fast way to provide an amazing detail job. Do you want to be associated with cheap work that looks like it was done fast? Or do you want to be associated with quality?
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