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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > *Official* Active Autowerke Flash Thread



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      08-26-2013, 10:31 PM   #1585
justpete
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Thanks to Andrew and Zak for their patience with lots of incredibly stupid questions, a mail provider with an allergy to binary files, and a user capable of screwing up the simplest of operations. That's customer service!

Had a baseline dyno run before the three stage manifold was installed and one after but as it turned out the tune upload was just the stage 2 file due to a miscommunication from said idiot user. The upload didn't go well and dropped into recovery mode. PM'ed Andrew while at the dyno, got a response almost immediately, called, got on the phone with Zak who walked me through the process to get back to normal operation. Did I mention the customer service?

The dyno runs which I picked up with the car the next day after the LSD had been installed showed the wrong tune was loaded (about 15-16hp increase, max) so another PM or three, an email with pics of the dyno plots, and Zak had the correct file emailed in minutes. But the car was already home so the tune was uploaded later that night.

The diff had to get past 500mi before we could run another dyno but it's got past the 1200mi break-in period now so it'll go in for fluid change and a dyno run this week if we can get our schedules to match up. I'll scan and post all three dyno runs as an update when the last one is available.

-edit-

Turns out it wasn't the 'wrong' tune. The 3-stage specific tune was developed for a 328i having headers and is meant to smooth out the DISA transitions but can only do so much on the MSV80 DME. So the latest dyno isn't significantly different from the post-install dyno and on my car either the stage2 or the stage3 tune work equally well but I find the latter 'smoother' but it's kinda hard to describe, maybe it's just me.

It certainly felt different and sounded different after stage3 upload but that's just placebo effect I suppose. Regardless, with an estimated 20% driveline loss the (optimistic) peak 16rwhp increase translates to 20bhp. There's no way to correlate the baseline dyno numbers with the claimed 230bhp by BMW so it's more of a guess that the tuned engine is essentially close enough for me to the claimed 255bhp for the 330i.

Another dyno run is scheduled for 25Sep to see if adaptation smooths the transitions now that it doesn't have to be babied for the diff break-in.

The first page of the dyno charts is the latest run after diff break-in with the stage3 tune, the second page is just before the diff was installed on the stage2 tune, and the last page is the baseline run. Sorry for the quality of the scans, that's what the originals look like.

AFAIC it's still well worth the money, no complaints here.

-edit-

The LSD at 3.73 instead of the OEM 3.13 makes sixth the effective 1:1 gear and gets rid of that utterly useless overdrive, makes shifts easier, and the car quicker without sacrificing top end. So it's difficult to separate the effects of the manifold and tune from the LSD gearing. But I can say the drive home with the stage 2 tune and new LSD was boring and no different than before, at least it felt that way.

In contrast there was an unavoidably obvious difference after uploading the new three stage specific tune that night. Had to baby the diff for 300mi, take it easy for another 200mi, and keep my foot out of it and away from redline for the balance of the 1200mi break-in. Even so the car's a lot more fun to drive.

Up and down shifts are easier to rev match and smoother either because of the new final ratio or the improved low end torque or both, either way it's no longer the jerky pita BMW saddles us MT drivers with. I expect the CDV delete to make a difference only at the 1-2 and maybe a little bit at the 2-3 shift points where there's still a bit of annoying delay.

I'm not sure the final ratio change alone would be as good as it is without the improved engine performance, but together they feel freakin' perfect. It's the way the car should've been built to begin with imho. And the PE sounds seriously better than before, if that's possible.

There aren't any noticeable problems with power generation, no codes, no rough idle or hiccups, and we didn't clear adaptations either. For some reason mileage is about the same but of no concern, ymmv. Pretty impressive work, can't go wrong with AA and Andrew and Zak won't let you down, no doubt. (All work was done at Classic BMW, Plano, TX)
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File Type: pdf dyno_charts.pdf (1.92 MB, 27 views)
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Last edited by justpete; 09-11-2013 at 04:24 PM. Reason: add dyno charts
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      08-27-2013, 11:21 AM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Thanks to Andrew and Zak for their patience with lots of incredibly stupid questions, a mail provider with an allergy to binary files, and a user capable of screwing up the simplest of operations. That's customer service!

Had a baseline dyno run before the three stage manifold was installed and one after but as it turned out the tune upload was just the stage 2 file due to a miscommunication from said idiot user. The upload didn't go well and dropped into recovery mode. PM'ed Andrew while at the dyno, got a response almost immediately, called, got on the phone with Zak who walked me through the process to get back to normal operation. Did I mention the customer service?

The dyno runs which I picked up with the car the next day after the LSD had been installed showed the wrong tune was loaded (about 15-16hp increase, max) so another PM or three, an email with pics of the dyno plots, and Zak had the correct file emailed in minutes. But the car was already home so the tune was uploaded later that night.

The diff had to get past 500mi before we could run another dyno but it's got past the 1200mi break-in period now so it'll go in for fluid change and a dyno run this week if we can get our schedules to match up. I'll scan and post all three dyno runs as an update when the last one is available.

The LSD at 3.73 instead of the OEM 3.13 makes sixth the effective 1:1 gear and gets rid of that utterly useless overdrive, makes shifts easier, and the car quicker without sacrificing top end. So it's difficult to separate the effects of the manifold and tune from the LSD gearing. But I can say the drive home with the stage 2 tune and new LSD was boring and no different than before, at least it felt that way.

In contrast there was an unavoidably obvious difference after uploading the new three stage specific tune that night. Had to baby the diff for 300mi, take it easy for another 200mi, and keep my foot out of it and away from redline for the balance of the 1200mi break-in. Even so the car's a lot more fun to drive.

Up and down shifts are easier to rev match and smoother either because of the new final ratio or the improved low end torque or both, either way it's no longer the jerky pita BMW saddles us MT drivers with. I expect the CDV delete to make a difference only at the 1-2 and maybe a little bit at the 2-3 shift points where there's still a bit of annoying delay.

I'm not sure the final ratio change alone would be as good as it is without the improved engine performance, but together they feel freakin' perfect. It's the way the car should've been built to begin with imho. And the PE sounds seriously better than before, if that's possible.

There aren't any noticeable problems with power generation, no codes, no rough idle or hiccups, and we didn't clear adaptations either. For some reason mileage is about the same but of no concern, ymmv. Pretty impressive work, can't go wrong with AA and Andrew and Zak won't let you down, no doubt. (All work was done at Classic BMW, Plano, TX)

Thanks for the write up buddy!
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      09-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #1587
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What's the difference between stage 2 and the stage 3? Exhaust header cat delete?
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      09-02-2013, 05:02 PM   #1588
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^^^ A couple up to the guy with the 3.73 lsd, thanks for the thoughts. I had a 3.64 rear but when to a 3.38 ... first gear was a little too jumpy and I didn't like the noise associated with 3100 rpm at 75mph... but hey that why there are choices.

My car has 130,000 miles on it now... with the gearing (3.38 is still a nice jump, makes the car feel like 10% lighter) the PE and charcoal delete... along with religious upkeep this car runs very strong. At a recent track day, my instructor had an e36 m3 track car and was very impressed with how well my car worked on the track as well as the power. The shorter gearing definitely helps the two steep uphill sections at Watkins Glen, but I found myself shifting more than with the 3.15s... and on the front stretch I was at the top of 4th gear before braking for turn 1.

My question is this... the engine in my car is very strong. It used just a half qt of 0w40 M1 between the two weeks and 750 miles of driving leading up to and including 7 sessions of 80 degree track school. It typically uses just 1 qt between my 7500 miles oil changes, great on gas, responsive ect. If I get the flash for my car, will it lean it out to the point of danger with those repeated extended periods of 6500+ rpm? There's just points with the gearing in my car that the next upshift makes no sense because I will be quickly downshifting again. If the tune is safe for this type of situation, then would it makes sense to bump the revlimiter up to 7200 rpm?

By no means am I questioning AA's skill or knowledge, I am just looking to stretch (again) my all in one car.

Thanks!!
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      09-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #1589
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About the rev limiter - pulled out into traffic Friday wot to get across the lanes. Hit the rev iimiter at eight before I could shift, muscle memory from before needs a bit of retraining. But dang did that thing just freakin' _jump_ above about six grand. Been running BMWLogger and not seeing abnormally lean AFR but not pushing it above <redacted> on the highway - Andrew can tell you a lot more about that.
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      09-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellthebeans View Post
What's the difference between stage 2 and the stage 3? Exhaust header cat delete?
As far as I know stage 2 is an on-road tune for an N52 engine with std non-3-stage manifold. Dunno what a stage 3 tune is, don't think there is one really. There are custom tunes with headers, etc. and off-road tunes, iIRC. Andrew's the guy with the right answers though.
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      09-03-2013, 11:11 AM   #1591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
As far as I know stage 2 is an on-road tune for an N52 engine with std non-3-stage manifold. Dunno what a stage 3 tune is, don't think there is one really. There are custom tunes with headers, etc. and off-road tunes, iIRC. Andrew's the guy with the right answers though.
"stage 3" would be a 3 stage manifold tune.
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      09-03-2013, 01:35 PM   #1592
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so I just figured out I have a N51 .. so that means the tune + manifold change is useless to me, or just the manifold because I already have it? so would still benefit from exhaust + tune/
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      09-04-2013, 09:19 AM   #1593
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Quote:
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so I just figured out I have a N51 .. so that means the tune + manifold change is useless to me, or just the manifold because I already have it? so would still benefit from exhaust + tune/

If you have an n51 you will still benefit from a tune just like a 330 does but gains will be a little higher do to the conservative oem tune.
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      09-04-2013, 09:22 AM   #1594
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We just did a N51 tune last week - the customer is quite happy with the results :-)
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      09-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #1595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
"stage 3" would be a 3 stage manifold tune.

Then why was I sent a stage 2 tune when my request stated I have installed a 3 stage intake and Active Auto signature exhaust?
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      09-04-2013, 04:43 PM   #1596
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stage 1, 2, 2.5, 2.7 and 3... all this fussing when end of day your car will adapt. The diff in hp bet stage 2 and 3 even if you had supporting mods for 3 would be minimal or you wouldn't even notice.
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      09-05-2013, 02:01 AM   #1597
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Concur even just the stage II made a observable difference in power delivery. However, there should be no reason not to use the most optimal tune.
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      09-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #1598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellthebeans View Post
Then why was I sent a stage 2 tune when my request stated I have installed a 3 stage intake and Active Auto signature exhaust?
It could be that our tuner inst up to date with the forum lingo I use to differentiate the 3 stage manifold tune. He most likely was taking about the gen 2 software and not stage 2.

If you would like to be 100% sure email him your info and he can check within a few minutes for you.
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      09-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #1599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
stage 1, 2, 2.5, 2.7 and 3... all this fussing when end of day your car will adapt. The diff in hp bet stage 2 and 3 even if you had supporting mods for 3 would be minimal or you wouldn't even notice.
Ask the member justpete how he feels about this. He drove around with a stage 2 file with his 3 stage manifold for a little while before switching over to the 3 stage.
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      09-05-2013, 08:28 AM   #1600
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what are the hp gains expected for a n51 tune w/ exhaust
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      09-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #1601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inimeg View Post
what are the hp gains expected for a n51 tune w/ exhaust
In the 15 to 20 hp range. Unfortunately there aren't many dyno's floating around for the n51 on this forum.
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      09-05-2013, 08:49 AM   #1602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Ask the member justpete how he feels about this. He drove around with a stage 2 file with his 3 stage manifold for a little while before switching over to the 3 stage.
I have an AA tune so I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying all these people are getting so caught up over every little release, this and that. "Well if I had my hot air intake, shouldn't I get version 2.21?"
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      09-05-2013, 08:50 AM   #1603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
It could be that our tuner inst up to date with the forum lingo I use to differentiate the 3 stage manifold tune. He most likely was taking about the gen 2 software and not stage 2.

If you would like to be 100% sure email him your info and he can check within a few minutes for you.
Thanks...alles klar.
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      09-05-2013, 08:56 AM   #1604
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We just did a N51 tune last week - the customer is quite happy with the results :-)
Did you get to dyno him?
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      09-05-2013, 09:31 AM   #1605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
I have an AA tune so I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying all these people are getting so caught up over every little release, this and that. "Well if I had my hot air intake, shouldn't I get version 2.21?"
Oh I agree! But the 3 stage manifold does need a different tune.We smooth out the massive dip you get when you install the 3 stage among other things.

Note: Intakes and axle back exhausts do not need a special tune.
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      09-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #1606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
"stage 3" would be a 3 stage manifold tune.
I was given the Stage 2 tune and was told that's what I needed for the 3IM that I installed. Should I receive the Stage 3 tune?
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