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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335d PCV Catch Can Question



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      09-21-2013, 06:51 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
Ok TDI, I have looked at page 24, and page 25. If I understand what I am looking at, the Crankcase breather pulls a vacuum on the head cover based on the venturi created by the airflow generated by the airflow which is determined by the load and rpm. When the gases/ oil mist is pulled into the stream, the oil can get onto the turbo compressor and then pool into the intercooler. So I guess one could say that we have a PCV catch can if you frequently empty out the intercooler of the oil.
I took my intercooler off today to evaluate it and clean it. A LOT more oil in there than I was expecting. So you were right in effect that it is collecting some of the blow by oil mist. Although if you look at the post IC intake tub you can still see oil draining back down that tube back into the intercooler.

It would be nice if there was a way to easily "drain" it without taking it off and draining/washing it. Although, BMW did make it relatively easy to remove the IC.
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      09-21-2013, 10:46 PM   #134
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Thanks TDI for sharing what you've found. It's definitely discouraging for those of us who hope to keep the d a long long time.
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      09-22-2013, 06:51 AM   #135
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Guess there's a lot of examples of turbo cars collecting oil in their intercoolers.

This actually has me wondering if the Wagner IC would be better at collecting/condensing more blow by oil mist. If a little drain valve could be added... that would make it extremely easy to routinely drain oil.
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      09-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #136
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Thanks for that information. I guess I should take a look at mine next weekend. Another project.
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      09-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #137
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On a previous car, 1995 Volvo 850 5 cylinders turbo, the intercooler had a small seep hole at the bottom of the intercooler.

I bought the car new. I was surprised to have few drop of oil leaking on a new car. The dealer explained to me that was normal, the intercooler has a small seep hole to purge condensation and oil from the intercooler. As long I had that car, I keep a small cardboard under the front of the car to catch the occasional oil drop. I put 110 K miles on that car and sold it to a friend. He drove it past 200 K miles and sold it recently, engine still running fine and no problem with the turbo.

Drilling a small hole at bottom of intercooler could be a solution!
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      09-22-2013, 02:57 PM   #138
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Not sure if want to drill and keep the hole open. You'll lose boost pressure that way. However tapping in a drain plug is a thought. But really that is just leaving out the excess. Proper method is to find a way to avoid and clean all intake internals.
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      09-22-2013, 03:58 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
Not sure if want to drill and keep the hole open. You'll lose boost pressure that way. However tapping in a drain plug is a thought. But really that is just leaving out the excess. Proper method is to find a way to avoid and clean all intake internals.
In my Volvo, the seep hole was small, about 1/16". Boost pressure lost should be insignificant.
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      09-23-2013, 01:58 AM   #140
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It's still easier to tap a 1/8" screw and occasionally remove the screw and go for a drive, pressurizing the tank and pushing oil out... In theory? Maybe not
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      09-23-2013, 06:33 AM   #141
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its interesting Idea BUT the mere fact of oil sipping out doesnt cut it, catch can I beleive 335d wagon has his done but waiting for him to post pics
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      09-23-2013, 09:55 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
its interesting Idea BUT the mere fact of oil sipping out doesnt cut it, catch can I beleive 335d wagon has his done but waiting for him to post pics
I'm patiently waiting for the pics to be posted as well.
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      09-23-2013, 10:06 PM   #143
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This has been a long read but I went through all 7 pages in one sitting this evening. I had written Terry about a year ago about retro fitting the 335i BMS part onto the M57. He gave me the same response as another poster in this thread. I cleaned my throttle body and EGR valve about 3000 miles ago. I have service this Friday at dealer for oil change and fuel filter (finally) and then I may take it back apart again and get a feel for how much has reaccumulated.

I wonder if getting some of this contaminant identified by a lab in worth while. Is it truly the combo of the oil from the crankcase vapor AND the soot from the EGR tract? N54 gassers get contaminant too but isn't that stuff alot harder not like the pudding consistency that out M57s are getting. What I'm wondering if the EGR were coded off if the black goo would stop but then we would have the oil residue in the IC and further down stream. TDI has found ways of turning off EGR.

TDI, since finding the trick to deactivate your EGR, is the throttle body/EGR area running alot cleaner now. I had found a slight film of oil on my charge pipe but it was very clean oil and only a small amount. I did not remove IC though.
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      09-24-2013, 10:45 AM   #144
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N54 gassers get contaminant too but isn't that stuff alot harder not like the pudding consistency that out M57s are getting.
yes, the gasser engines (not just N54, all DI engines without any supplemental pre-injection) have much harder residue, and its also very localized around just the intake ports/valves where ours is the whole intake from the valves back to the EGR

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Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
What I'm wondering if the EGR were coded off if the black goo would stop but then we would have the oil residue in the IC and further down stream. TDI has found ways of turning off EGR.

TDI, since finding the trick to deactivate your EGR, is the throttle body/EGR area running alot cleaner now. I had found a slight film of oil on my charge pipe but it was very clean oil and only a small amount. I did not remove IC though.
I doubt its been long enough to see any difference even if he had looked. It will take some time to evaluate whether or not its clearing up the manifold or if its just stalled out the buildup. An unfortunate byproduct of cutting down on buildup is that we will likely end up with the same hardened buildup that the gassers are getting. EGR mods combined with catch can might help there
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      09-24-2013, 01:25 PM   #145
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Hoooper, i guess i was presuming TDI cleaned his EGR after getting it deactivated to later observe long term effects. Basically, a visual way of verifying that he really has it deactivated.

When he is back from his end of the fiscal year work, we'll let him comment.
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      09-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #146
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Hoooper, i guess i was presuming TDI cleaned his EGR after getting it deactivated to later observe long term effects. Basically, a visual way of verifying that he really has it deactivated.

When he is back from his end of the fiscal year work, we'll let him comment.
weve been emailing about this particular mod, I doubt that he cleaned it before but he would need to confirm that. This mod though doesnt deactivate the EGR, it limits the EGR activity. Instead of the EGR typically hovering around 95% while driving/cruising, the EGR hovers more around the 30-40% range. To be honest, with the limited number of EGR deletes going around and the number of cracked EGR coolers on those cars I would be concerned about doing a complete delete. It might be perfectly fine and the delete is completely unrelated to cracked EGR cooler but a more than 50% reduction seems good enough to me. If it was hovering more around 20% I think that would be perfect.
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      09-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #147
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Had the EGR recall work done at last years service. Not sure what things looked like at that point. Looking at the EGR a month ago (10-11 months later), with only a small period of time using modified EGR behavior, didn't show any hardened buildup. Just a very, very slight oily coating that I could still see the metal through, and would easily wipe off with a rag. However, the intake is hit with regular methanol/water vapor. I would really like to look at the intake valves, but I'm not willing to spend the time/effort to remove all the things needed to get to them, and the borescope I tried couldn't reach in far enough.

Regarding the catch can use, that wouldn't catch the oil leaking from the turbo. Although this should be small. Kicking myself for not measuring, but I'm guessing there was ~1/2 cup of oil in there after ~40k miles. Thinking that draining the intercooler will become a regular maintenance item for me.
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      09-25-2013, 04:35 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Had the EGR recall work done at last years service. Not sure what things looked like at that point. Looking at the EGR a month ago (10-11 months later), with only a small period of time using modified EGR behavior, didn't show any hardened buildup. Just a very, very slight oily coating that I could still see the metal through, and would easily wipe off with a rag. However, the intake is hit with regular methanol/water vapor. I would really like to look at the intake valves, but I'm not willing to spend the time/effort to remove all the things needed to get to them, and the borescope I tried couldn't reach in far enough.

Regarding the catch can use, that wouldn't catch the oil leaking from the turbo. Although this should be small. Kicking myself for not measuring, but I'm guessing there was ~1/2 cup of oil in there after ~40k miles. Thinking that draining the intercooler will become a regular maintenance item for me.
I have been in the market for a 335D for over a month or now. I have read all the threads so far and would like to add my findings. I used to work for a BMW dealer and have have retained one good friend that is a parts manager now. I went today to talk to one of the techs about the situation and he confirmed that BMW are having a lot of problems with the EGR operation, Urea injection and Injection failures. He said they have been able to get their heads around some of the injector issues but the Emission issues are very bad. In fact the X5D'd are at the sharp end of a high buyout ratio (they have TWO EGR's). He flat out he said that he would not recommend a family member to buy the 335D if asked because of all the issues that BMW cannot seem to get their head around at the moment. He added that BMW cannot figure out some of these problems themselves. I'm bummed to be honest. This was the greatest engine/Body combo being manufactured period. I need to look someplace else I guess..
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      09-26-2013, 12:20 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatso7 View Post
I have been in the market for a 335D for over a month or now. I have read all the threads so far and would like to add my findings. I used to work for a BMW dealer and have have retained one good friend that is a parts manager now. I went today to talk to one of the techs about the situation and he confirmed that BMW are having a lot of problems with the EGR operation, Urea injection and Injection failures. He said they have been able to get their heads around some of the injector issues but the Emission issues are very bad. In fact the X5D'd are at the sharp end of a high buyout ratio (they have TWO EGR's). He flat out he said that he would not recommend a family member to buy the 335D if asked because of all the issues that BMW cannot seem to get their head around at the moment. He added that BMW cannot figure out some of these problems themselves. I'm bummed to be honest. This was the greatest engine/Body combo being manufactured period. I need to look someplace else I guess..
Funny, the tech at the dealer around here had his mother get a 335d and she drives it like she stole it, so he says. He recommends driving it that way.

Since carbon issues are thought to be regional and therefore fuel related, are we facing a general demise in diesel quality?
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      09-26-2013, 08:09 AM   #150
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Im thru with this EGR UREA BS, Im in the midst of removing it in the nearby future lets say 6 mo.
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      09-27-2013, 03:29 AM   #151
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My humble advice has been stated plenty: drive it hard, often. Just like the MK4 TDI's from VW, they had terrible spot build up over time. Their remedy was to really push the car hard, and often, and that seemed to help the issue.

Go have some fun once a week or something. Just an idea!
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      09-27-2013, 05:26 AM   #152
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Austin I drive my car like a two cent hoe!!! Look at what happened to me on the thread GUESS WHAT?
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      09-28-2013, 07:31 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
I took my intercooler off today to evaluate it and clean it. A LOT more oil in there than I was expecting.
It would be nice if there was a way to easily "drain" it without taking it off and draining/washing it. Although, BMW did make it relatively easy to remove the IC.
Ok TDI, I took mine off today. I had only a couple of drops come out into a plastic cup and not enough to make a film on the bottom of the cup.

So that is the good news.

My trouble is getting the red tube sleeve to fit easily into the cup before pushing in the clip. The black tube goes in very easy, but the red side is miserable. How was yours on the reinstall? I'm thinking of cooling the metal and heating up the plastic to make the connection easier tomorrow. I'm sust tired now after spending most of the afternoon cleaning out the bugs, sand from the IC and a few failed attempts to get the red tube to mate up.

On the disturbing side, when I was taking the underside cover off to get at the IC, there were mouse droppings. God I hate open fields next to our parking lots.
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      09-29-2013, 07:17 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
Ok TDI, I took mine off today. I had only a couple of drops come out into a plastic cup and not enough to make a film on the bottom of the cup.

So that is the good news.

My trouble is getting the red tube sleeve to fit easily into the cup before pushing in the clip. The black tube goes in very easy, but the red side is miserable. How was yours on the reinstall? I'm thinking of cooling the metal and heating up the plastic to make the connection easier tomorrow. I'm sust tired now after spending most of the afternoon cleaning out the bugs, sand from the IC and a few failed attempts to get the red tube to mate up.

On the disturbing side, when I was taking the underside cover off to get at the IC, there were mouse droppings. God I hate open fields next to our parking lots.
Thanks for reporting. Curious how many miles you have on it and how you drive it.

Yes, the red tube was more difficult to get in for me too. I basically mounted the IC loosely (not tightening the bolts all the way so it could slide a bit) and then worked the red tube into place first and locked it in. Having the IC loose allowed for easier alignment and then inserting. Then the black tube went in, then finally positioned the IC into its final placement and tightened things back up.

Did you do any rinsing/soaking/cleaning of the inside of the IC? I did several rinsing cycles of soapy water, water, then some methanol, and then blew it out with my shop vac for many minutes to evaporate out any leftover moisture. A lot of extra buildup came out that the draining left behind.
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