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      10-22-2013, 11:45 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by joe_planet View Post
I will of course try and negotiate
There's a guy on corvetteforum whos 2007 M5 has metal shavings in oil and the cel came on putting the car in limp mode. He does have warranty though... man he would have been screwed if he didnt.
I've heard that before with the V10. The guy who told me his story dumped the car and bought a Nissan GTR.
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      12-25-2013, 06:40 AM   #134
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just came across this thread wanted to know if anyone has solved this issue?

i have a 2009 bmw 335d up here in canada with 137k on it now.
owned since 95k- purchased aftermarket warranty from my dealership with it
was getting 32mpg 800-1000kms a tank then after DDE recall ive had numerous issues
MPG went to about 28 and slowly dropped to 25 with the same driving style. (im lucky to get 650kms a tank now- latest tank is 550kms....)

had rough idle come about and car went into limp mode randomnly soon after recall. finally took it in after not being able to remedy myself (MAF and intake cleaning) and had the carbon cleaning done and fuel injector 4 replaced. few days later car was doing the exact same thing- shakey at starts and will go into limp mode if i hold revs for longer than a second or two at 1800-2krpm. if i keep revs higher or a lot lower car will drive fine. but around 2k it will shake and not want to move properly.

Also needed the diesel fluid thing topped up between oil changes along with AC unit failing on the hottest day of the summer of all days..

SES light on and codes show fuel injector 2 this time needs replacing and shop thinks EGR needs cleaning or maybe MAF needs replacing. costed me $1300 to do carbon cleaning including $340 deductibles everytime something needs to be fixed.

so if anyone has a resolution to tell BMW or BMW NA?
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      12-29-2013, 06:14 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konvict
just came across this thread wanted to know if anyone has solved this issue?

i have a 2009 bmw 335d up here in canada with 137k on it now.
owned since 95k- purchased aftermarket warranty from my dealership with it
was getting 32mpg 800-1000kms a tank then after DDE recall ive had numerous issues
MPG went to about 28 and slowly dropped to 25 with the same driving style. (im lucky to get 650kms a tank now- latest tank is 550kms....)

had rough idle come about and car went into limp mode randomnly soon after recall. finally took it in after not being able to remedy myself (MAF and intake cleaning) and had the carbon cleaning done and fuel injector 4 replaced. few days later car was doing the exact same thing- shakey at starts and will go into limp mode if i hold revs for longer than a second or two at 1800-2krpm. if i keep revs higher or a lot lower car will drive fine. but around 2k it will shake and not want to move properly.

Also needed the diesel fluid thing topped up between oil changes along with AC unit failing on the hottest day of the summer of all days..

SES light on and codes show fuel injector 2 this time needs replacing and shop thinks EGR needs cleaning or maybe MAF needs replacing. costed me $1300 to do carbon cleaning including $340 deductibles everytime something needs to be fixed.

so if anyone has a resolution to tell BMW or BMW NA?
It's the DDE
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      01-02-2014, 04:43 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Michael335d View Post
It's the DDE
yeah i figured as much..... i asked my dealer if they can replace or do something about it they said no as the DDE recall they did is mandatory and only BMW NA can undo it or fix it.

can we all maybe write a letter or sign something and send to BMW NA lol its a long shot but im tired of paying the deductible for my warranty and even more tired of not being able to drive my car
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      01-10-2014, 08:10 PM   #137
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so i spoke to bmw canada and advised them of the issue i was having. they took down a report and the last 7 of my VIN and asked if i can have the other people who have had issues call in to report their issues.

can some people report their issues to BMWNA? or BMW USA or whoever? maybe we can start a large case cos the guy I spoke to said he didnt know of any mass issues and if there were enough complaints they could do a large recall to fix it...

im going in next week to once again get a fuel injector replaced... number 4 this time! will keep this thread updated

edit- i also stated that the issues appeared to occur after the DDE recall was done.

symptoms:
lower mpg and it kept dropping,
CEL,
SES,
rough idle,

tried doing:
MAF cleaning,
air filter cleaning,
carbon cleaning,
fuel injectors replaced,
still rough idle... and advised them that one person got DDE revered or re-done and that solved their issues

Last edited by konvict; 01-10-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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      01-10-2014, 11:21 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konvict View Post
can some people report their issues to BMWNA? or BMW USA or whoever? maybe we can start a large case cos the guy I spoke to said he didnt know of any mass issues and if there were enough complaints they could do a large recall to fix it...
I guarantee you BMWNA knows all about this issue, they probably just don't know what to do at this point so they are downplaying it. problem is the real solution here is to crank the egr down to a minimum but they cant do that for emissions reasons.
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      01-11-2014, 10:55 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by rogerdiaz View Post
anyone know decent price to reprogram DDE. not covered with oem gold extended warranty.
Is this true?!!
Been reading this thread with trepidation as I have a 2010 with 40k miles with my original warranty about to run out due to time. If the gold warranty doesn't cover this uber expensive DDE replacement that's giving these injector failures, then what's the point of extended warranty at all? To think I used to poke fun of the HPFP failures on the 335i's... At least BMW fixed that problem and extended their warranty. Since there's so few of us D's, I think in usual corporate 'math', it'll be cheaper for BMW to throw us under the bus and accept the loss of future purchases than to do a massive recall.
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      01-11-2014, 06:21 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
I guarantee you BMWNA knows all about this issue, they probably just don't know what to do at this point so they are downplaying it. problem is the real solution here is to crank the egr down to a minimum but they cant do that for emissions reasons.
I agree they know but only way we can get something from this is if we make a bit of noise. Even then probably a long shot like you explained. I'll be selling the car come February once it's all fixed up probably.
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      01-14-2014, 02:28 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
I guarantee you BMWNA knows all about this issue, they probably just don't know what to do at this point so they are downplaying it. problem is the real solution here is to crank the egr down to a minimum but they cant do that for emissions reasons.
Is There anyway or does anyone know how to do this modification ourselves I don't care about the emissions
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      01-17-2014, 01:57 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
As I mentioned before, I'd be damned if it was the electrical harness. I had a long sit down conversation with the shop foreman who explained what they did with my car so far and why they did it; also he was able to hear me out on my speculations of the problem. The code for "Zero Volume adaptation Value" is purely dependant on cylinder response relative to the amount of fuel sprayed during an overrun mode. If the cylinder does not respond as it is supposed to, the DDE throws a code for "Zero Volume Adaptation".
Supposedly my intake manifold was inspected (even though not mentioned in the reports) and there was build up, but they were not sure if it was excessive enough to throw the code(s)...

If the intake manifold and cylinder head swap does not fix the problem, then I am lost. At the end of the day, it is a piece of machine and it can be fixed. I am becoming more and more comfortable with the 335d's electronic and mechanical functions as my research continues!

BMW NA has been involved and so has the Field Service Engineer. They are trying to resolve this issue, but I also don't think they fully understand it. Unless, they are trying A, B, C, D first, before deciding on an expensive repair such as cylinder head replacement.

Meanwhile, roaming around in an X1.
135i_vs_, any updates on your car? is it all good now? What did it end up being? thx
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      01-17-2014, 03:24 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Roman-dude View Post
135i_vs_, any updates on your car? is it all good now? What did it end up being? thx
My car was fixed properly months back. Here is the thread. Hopefully it is helpful to you.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=838287
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      01-25-2014, 09:05 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magbarn View Post
Is this true?!!
Been reading this thread with trepidation as I have a 2010 with 40k miles with my original warranty about to run out due to time. If the gold warranty doesn't cover this uber expensive DDE replacement that's giving these injector failures, then what's the point of extended warranty at all? To think I used to poke fun of the HPFP failures on the 335i's... At least BMW fixed that problem and extended their warranty. Since there's so few of us D's, I think in usual corporate 'math', it'll be cheaper for BMW to throw us under the bus and accept the loss of future purchases than to do a massive recall.
I got the foreman involved with the Gold Extended Warranty problems. BMWNA 1800# could care less. He took care of everything. I got a new engine and new DDE.
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      01-28-2014, 10:30 PM   #145
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They know alright..

There are currently 3 335d's parked just outside the service door at my dealership. Mine is one of them. This is where they put the longer term cases that they have to push in and out. BMW knows there is a problem... can't say for sure they have a fully determined fix or if they do they have enough parts in production to keep up with the failure rate...so they may be doing some stalling actions to put some of those cars back on the road temporarily while the new head and manifold solution becomes available.
Or maybe they are just trying this as an experiment to see if it is enough of an improvement to warrant doing with a wider scope.
I still don't necessarily see a solid solution on the table.. but I for one am being sufficiently serviced to keep me reasonably happy. But everything is subject to change if it gets too ugly or they drag their feet too much.
I find the comments about the X5D not seeming to have the issue interesting...and I'm going to explore it a bit with the service manager the next time I sit down with him. I have considered an x5D as an alternative but am hesitant because it has the same engine. If it suffers not from this malaise then I have to wonder why not... and how exactly does this figure into the picture. It might just be that one of those alternate reprogramming "booster" chips could give more torque and less problems in the long term. Something else to consider when the warranty runs out.
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      01-29-2014, 08:08 PM   #146
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Reprogram this issue away???

The prior discussions have set me to thinking if there might be a reprogramming alternative that would fix most of this problem. Might be interesting to explore. BMW can't do it and meet CARB requirements but aftermarket products could. It could be a moneymaker for whomever has a simple solution that still allows these cars to pass emission specs and not suffer from carbon buildup. I'd willingly pay several hundred bucks out of my own pocket for a permanent solution to this problem...
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      01-29-2014, 08:13 PM   #147
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Posted this in another topic but fits here too:

My buddy who works at an indy shop just texted me this:

"We are starting to see a lot more diesels at the shop now. Lots coming in with frozen urea reservoirs and EGR valves stuck open with carbon!"
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      02-05-2014, 01:08 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
Posted this in another topic but fits here too:

My buddy who works at an indy shop just texted me this:

"We are starting to see a lot more diesels at the shop now. Lots coming in with frozen urea reservoirs and EGR valves stuck open with carbon!"
intersting- i just got mine back from BMW- $600 diagnosis cost later they say my EGR valve needs replacing. So im ordering a new one online for $260 instead of BMWs $450 and installing myself. BMW charging an extra $600 to install. anyone know a good DIY on installing online?

My aftermarket warranty covers none of this as apparently they classify it as emissions stuff and they dont pay for that... kinda dumb imo
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      02-05-2014, 09:20 AM   #149
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konvict, Id look into removing and cleaning your EGR rather than buying a new one. Based on your miles and injector troubles I am not convinced your problem is the EGR. To me, my hunch is either the DDE or the cylinder head is clogged with soot.

From my readings on this forum, dealers seem to clean the carbon / soot the right way or the wrong way. Some dealers take the easy root and only clean or replace the intake. The right way is to also pull the head and have the intake ports in the head completely cleaned as this is the real bottle neck of the intake system.

Can you verify if your cylinder head was removed and cleaned?
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      02-05-2014, 01:29 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konvict View Post
intersting- i just got mine back from BMW- $600 diagnosis cost later they say my EGR valve needs replacing. So im ordering a new one online for $260 instead of BMWs $450 and installing myself. BMW charging an extra $600 to install. anyone know a good DIY on installing online?

My aftermarket warranty covers none of this as apparently they classify it as emissions stuff and they dont pay for that... kinda dumb imo
Konvict,
I don't have a pretty DIY typed up to offer. Remove engine cover by removing the 5 bolts. Unbolt the snorkel that connects to the airbox flow path. Your need either a T20 or T25, i cqn't remember which. Remove lower engine cover. A 1/4" (or is it 5/16") nutdriver works well here. Disconnect charge pipe from outlet of intercooler and other end at throttle body. The clips just pull up from "clicked in" postion but don't come off completely. Just go to the out limit point. Remove charge pipe. I can't figure out how to disconnect the the sensor's harness connection on this pipe so I just laid in on the engine to the drivers side apron area. It took some twisting and pulling to get charge pipe out but it will come out. You will have lots more fun getting it back down the passage later.

Anyone want to offer a technique for disconnection without distruction?

Continuing on now. Now that the charge pipe is off, use a 5 mm allan head hex to take throttle body off. I don't recall if there is a harness connection to it, if so, disconnect it. I know for sure there is a harness connection to the EGR valve, disconnect it. There is a hose clamp thing that attaches the flow path to the EGR, disconnect it. Use same 5 mm tool on EGR attachment to intake manifold. I recall there being a weird skinny plate/link thing that has supportive connection of the EGR to the intake as well. Remove it too if you need to (i did).

I cleaned both the throttle body and EGR flow paths with carb cleaner and a tooth brush. Most all came clean but some persistent stuff on EGR needed more scrubbing. If your putting new EGR on, obviously skip this step.

I don't have torque values to offer for reassembly. the parts are aluminum so don't go crazy or you will strip the threading. After the EGR and throttle body are back on (more on this in next paragraph), put the charge pipe back down the narrow path it needs to go. This will take some force but excercise care. Go back down underneath and push the charge pipe back onto the intercooler. Make damn sure it is all the way back on. Reseat the clip securing the charge pipe to the intercooler. Go back up top and connect the charge pipe onto the throttle body inlet. Same type of clip I believe.

I bought a nice craftsman set of the these T handles as the reach needs to be long to do the screws on the EGR itself. Fair warning, I had to be quite careful to not drop the allen head screws off into engine bay when both removing and reattaching. TAKE YOUR TIME and BE PATIENT. I found the T handles are handy when removing the engine cover. Make sure to reconnect all harness connections prior to starting engine. The T handle was too long to do the throttle plate screws so revert to normal allen wrench. I forgot to say put the wierd link thing back on during the EGR reinstall and reattach the EGR exhaust path's hose clamp. Make sure to line up the flange well while tightening clamp. Reattch snorkel, lower engine cover and top engine cover.

When i did this job last fall, it was the 2nd time around to check back how much had accumulated after 3000 miles driving. It wasn't too bad.

ask additional questions as I'm shooting from the hip and likely left out some info. Good luck
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      02-06-2014, 01:47 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
konvict, Id look into removing and cleaning your EGR rather than buying a new one. Based on your miles and injector troubles I am not convinced your problem is the EGR. To me, my hunch is either the DDE or the cylinder head is clogged with soot.

From my readings on this forum, dealers seem to clean the carbon / soot the right way or the wrong way. Some dealers take the easy root and only clean or replace the intake. The right way is to also pull the head and have the intake ports in the head completely cleaned as this is the real bottle neck of the intake system.

Can you verify if your cylinder head was removed and cleaned?
my cylinder wasnt removed and cleaned as far as i know... i think they did carbon cleanup on the manifold? they also stated theres carbon buildup in the intake. maybe ill just clean it first and see if that fixes it first. they did say the EGR isnt "funcitoning" properly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_cuda View Post
Konvict,
I don't have a pretty DIY typed up to offer. Remove engine cover by removing the 5 bolts. Unbolt the snorkel that connects to the airbox flow path. Your need either a T20 or T25, i cqn't remember which. Remove lower engine cover. A 1/4" (or is it 5/16") nutdriver works well here. Disconnect charge pipe from outlet of intercooler and other end at throttle body. The clips just pull up from "clicked in" postion but don't come off completely. Just go to the out limit point. Remove charge pipe. I can't figure out how to disconnect the the sensor's harness connection on this pipe so I just laid in on the engine to the drivers side apron area. It took some twisting and pulling to get charge pipe out but it will come out. You will have lots more fun getting it back down the passage later.

Anyone want to offer a technique for disconnection without distruction?

Continuing on now. Now that the charge pipe is off, use a 5 mm allan head hex to take throttle body off. I don't recall if there is a harness connection to it, if so, disconnect it. I know for sure there is a harness connection to the EGR valve, disconnect it. There is a hose clamp thing that attaches the flow path to the EGR, disconnect it. Use same 5 mm tool on EGR attachment to intake manifold. I recall there being a weird skinny plate/link thing that has supportive connection of the EGR to the intake as well. Remove it too if you need to (i did).

I cleaned both the throttle body and EGR flow paths with carb cleaner and a tooth brush. Most all came clean but some persistent stuff on EGR needed more scrubbing. If your putting new EGR on, obviously skip this step.

I don't have torque values to offer for reassembly. the parts are aluminum so don't go crazy or you will strip the threading. After the EGR and throttle body are back on (more on this in next paragraph), put the charge pipe back down the narrow path it needs to go. This will take some force but excercise care. Go back down underneath and push the charge pipe back onto the intercooler. Make damn sure it is all the way back on. Reseat the clip securing the charge pipe to the intercooler. Go back up top and connect the charge pipe onto the throttle body inlet. Same type of clip I believe.

I bought a nice craftsman set of the these T handles as the reach needs to be long to do the screws on the EGR itself. Fair warning, I had to be quite careful to not drop the allen head screws off into engine bay when both removing and reattaching. TAKE YOUR TIME and BE PATIENT. I found the T handles are handy when removing the engine cover. Make sure to reconnect all harness connections prior to starting engine. The T handle was too long to do the throttle plate screws so revert to normal allen wrench. I forgot to say put the wierd link thing back on during the EGR reinstall and reattach the EGR exhaust path's hose clamp. Make sure to line up the flange well while tightening clamp. Reattch snorkel, lower engine cover and top engine cover.

When i did this job last fall, it was the 2nd time around to check back how much had accumulated after 3000 miles driving. It wasn't too bad.

ask additional questions as I'm shooting from the hip and likely left out some info. Good luck
wow thanks for the DIY write up man this will be very helpful! really appreciate it and ill let you know when I attempt it. Maybe ill snap pics for progress and we can post it here to show others who have to do it the routine.
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      02-12-2014, 10:49 PM   #152
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ok so i took off the throttle body and EGR and cleaned them well. they werent super bad but EGR did have a fair bit of buildup that made the little mechanism now move properly...or so i thought anyways. the DIY really helped so appreciate that! realised you don't need to disconnect the bottom engine cover and the tube at bottom tho.

cleaned the edge around the manifold also since i could see that area- the part where EGR connects to and I cleaned throttle body which wasnt bad.

dont have an OBD scanner so CEL stayed on- and car drove the same or worse to start off with... it shook at idle, then smoothed out- couldnt rev higher than 2kRPM tho and limp mode came on when i tried. drove worse as i couldnt get car above 2k rpm and limp mode kept coming up so i parked car. then i re-tested once it was warmed up better and it drove perfectly...felt brand new...then after 5 mins it went back to driving like crap and i crawled home...

so BMW said EGR needs replacing... do I replace it? its $450 from BMW for part or $270 online. and i dont even know if this will fix it?

what else can i check here? i'll get another CEL check done from a friend to see if codes changed at all and reset light.

could it be a fuel injector?

also there was oil all over bottom of engine and on bottom engine cover... like a big spill... also oil in the charge pipe that goes from the intercooler up to throttle body... not sure how dealer didnt see this? i think that would mean swirl flaps may be damaged? maybe they need cleaning or replacing?

Last edited by konvict; 02-13-2014 at 01:29 AM.
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      02-13-2014, 11:45 AM   #153
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update: car broke down on way to work this morning... cant even drive it anymore just stutters then goes to limp mode. will be towed to dealer i guess... or another shop since dealer isnt doing much with it..but who will lol
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      02-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konvict View Post
also there was oil all over bottom of engine and on bottom engine cover... like a big spill... also oil in the charge pipe that goes from the intercooler up to throttle body... not sure how dealer didnt see this? i think that would mean swirl flaps may be damaged? maybe they need cleaning or replacing?
I had a big mess on the bottom cover after dealer did brake fluid flush and also another time after oil change. I don't think they give a f$$* about leaving a mess. I removed the cover and attempted to clean it with carb cleaner spray. It is still stained but dry so that it won't be attracting dirt.

Interesting that you got the throttle body off without needing to pull tube. I like to do it in part to inspect how much oil is carrying up the charge pipe.

Sorry your issue has went from bad to worse. Good luck with dealer.
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