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      10-09-2007, 05:30 AM   #23
peterg1965
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
We approached the architect who designed our house and this was too small for him! So I was thinking...how do you find a decent architect that will take on a small project like this!
Most of the architects I originally called were all too busy, particularly to do small projects as you say. We needed planning perm for the conservatory and the company handled all that, ie the drawings and applied for all the necessary consents, I think it was 250 all in!
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      10-09-2007, 05:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
Not directly ... my projects are high capital value and generally procured on a 'design and build' basis so the contractor prices for all risks in the ground.

What do you want to know about piling / foundations?
I don't, it's just my only link to the construction industry - a member of my family is quite high up in a piling/foundation company.
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      10-09-2007, 05:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
I don't, it's just my only link to the construction industry - a member of my family is quite high up in a piling/foundation company.
I bet he has a lovely car.
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      10-09-2007, 05:39 AM   #26
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Actually typically his cars lag behind what he would have if he were elsewhere in industry, perhaps even in construction. He has a 520d SE, which doesn't seem *that* grand for a managing director of a company with a turnover of millions.
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      10-09-2007, 05:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Actually typically his cars lag behind what he would have if he were elsewhere in industry, perhaps even in construction. He has a 520d SE, which doesn't seem *that* grand for a managing director of a company with a turnover of millions.
Groundworkers and plumbers usually have the best cars - he's obviously playing it cool so that he doesn't give the impression that his company is excessively profitable.

The plumbing contractor on one of my recent projects had a Mclaren SLR.

Ask him to explain "continuous flight auger" and "de-frictionalised" piles - they love that sort of stuff - that and looking in holes.
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      10-09-2007, 05:47 AM   #28
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I know about continuous flight auger (CFA), never heard of de-frictionalised piles. I know he gets excited whenever he sees a "Rig" out and about, I just thought that was a construction thing...that and wearing cardigans

He's definitely not playing it cool - its all he's allowed (it is part of a bigger group) without putting in extra dosh. I think he wishes he'd got an e92 now.
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      10-09-2007, 06:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
I know about continuous flight auger (CFA), never heard of de-frictionalised piles. I know he gets excited whenever he sees a "Rig" out and about, I just thought that was a construction thing...that and wearing cardigans

He's definitely not playing it cool - its all he's allowed (it is part of a bigger group) without putting in extra dosh. I think he wishes he'd got an e92 now.
Lot's of people on the engineering side are very 'technical'. My job involves knowing a small amount about everything.

I've learned to filter out all the 'important technical information' whilst still knowing just enough to spot that someone is bullshitting me.

De-frictionalised piles are 'sleeved' so that no load is transferred into the ground from the sides of the pile. You would use them when you are building close to existing infrastructure, which cannot be subject to any imposed load (e.g. tube lines etc.)

I'm very impressed that you know about CFA piles. Presumably your relative has explained it to you in some detail
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      10-09-2007, 08:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
I know about continuous flight auger (CFA), never heard of de-frictionalised piles. I know he gets excited whenever he sees a "Rig" out and about, I just thought that was a construction thing...that and wearing cardigans

He's definitely not playing it cool - its all he's allowed (it is part of a bigger group) without putting in extra dosh. I think he wishes he'd got an e92 now.
Have you asked him about his bell bottoms too? As for the car, it is typical of that level in a big construction group, as stated earlier these guys usually don't flaunt it.
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      10-09-2007, 09:10 AM   #31
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Are you in construction jwbmw?
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      10-09-2007, 10:10 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Are you in construction jwbmw?
I am a qualified civil engineer who worked for a major contractor for a few years but I now play around running a business in the electronics/systems sector

Perhaps we should form a construction sub forum to the UK forum!
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      10-09-2007, 10:12 AM   #33
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Sounds good.

Does anyone else have a few on whether the quote I got sounds about right for that kind of size project?
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      10-09-2007, 10:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Sounds good.

Does anyone else have a few on whether the quote I got sounds about right for that kind of size project?
I agree with NFS in that it does not seem to be a bad price but you have to be certain on specification, planning permission, building regulation approvals, payment terms, contract type and warranties for poor workmanship.

What is of an additional concern to me is that it sounds like the company are new to the house extension game and can not demonstrate previous work. This would be fine if they could prove that they have experienced / competent staff but otherwise you could be landed with paying for their learning curve if things go horribly wrong.

Having the builders in is stressful at the best of times and (assuming you are married and male) wives in particular hate the dirt and invasion of privacy. Therefore, I would always recommend paying a bit extra for a contractor who has proven experience and can be recommended by an existing customer. That way the job is likely to get done quickly and efficiently.
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      10-09-2007, 10:36 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by jwbmw View Post
I agree with NFS in that it does not seem to be a bad price but you have to be certain on specification, planning permission, building regulation approvals, payment terms, contract type and warranties for poor workmanship.

What is of an additional concern to me is that it sounds like the company are new to the house extension game and can not demonstrate previous work. This would be fine if they could prove that they have experienced / competent staff but otherwise you could be landed with paying for their learning curve if things go horribly wrong.

Having the builders in is stressful at the best of times and (assuming you are married and male) wives in particular hate the dirt and invasion of privacy. Therefore, I would always recommend paying a bit extra for a contractor who has proven experience and can be recommended by an existing customer. That way the job is likely to get done quickly and efficiently.
This is good advice. Cost isn't the key factor.

What you really want to know is that they will turn up, diligently complete the job to a workmanlike standard and not bugger off before it's finished.

That's worth paying extra for - if you can find it.

As to the contractors ability ... in the end this is pretty much a conservatory with a tiled roof. It's not rocket science and they should be able to do it. I'd just want to see some very positive recommendations from previous customers with 'complex' conservatory installs.
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      10-10-2007, 08:05 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
In an ideal world you would be best served if he would agree to follow a JCT Minor Works Contract.
incredibly similar to Evil Diesel.
Please join the real world, we are talking a local builder!!!
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      10-10-2007, 08:10 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
BTW - I am a 'client side' project manager. Effectively I am a professional client and my job is to procure construction work for a property developer.
Sorry to pick up various points, but I have never heard of a Project Manager carrying out procurement.
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      10-10-2007, 09:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
This is good advice. Cost isn't the key factor.

What you really want to know is that they will turn up, diligently complete the job to a workmanlike standard and not bugger off before it's finished.

That's worth paying extra for - if you can find it.

As to the contractors ability ... in the end this is pretty much a conservatory with a tiled roof. It's not rocket science and they should be able to do it. I'd just want to see some very positive recommendations from previous customers with 'complex' conservatory installs.
As I think I mentioned earlier - the company is actually a window and conservatory company, they sub the building work out to the same company who they spend about half a million a year with (apparently) on ground work and building work. As NFS says they are pretty much doing a conservatory with a roof, but very good advice to get a recommendation from their conservatory work for a complex example....
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      10-10-2007, 10:31 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deejaygee View Post
Please join the real world, we are talking a local builder!!!
If I were organising work on this scale for myself I would at least ask the builder if he would be prepared to work to a recognised form of contract. It's not hard to do so and in reality a formal contract document would not necessarily need to be executed. All that would be required is a simple exchange of letters confirming that the contract would be JCT minor works.

This may be unrealistic for lots of small builders, but larger contractors (including anyone who undertakes new build work) will understand what the JCT contract is and be prepared to work to it.

The point of JCT contracts is that they protect the interests of both the client AND the contractor

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Sorry to pick up various points, but I have never heard of a Project Manager carrying out procurement.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you in the construction industry?
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      10-10-2007, 10:36 AM   #40
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I think he's getting pedantic about titles. i.e. if you project manage you surely don't buy, but in my experience job descriptions are never so tightly fixed to what it says on the tin.
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      10-10-2007, 10:44 AM   #41
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I think he's getting pedantic about titles. i.e. if you project manage you surely don't buy, but in my experience job descriptions are never so tightly fixed to what it says on the tin.
Maybe - I'm still not sure what he was getting at.

I think I know what my job is ... . Well most of the time anyway.
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      10-10-2007, 10:58 AM   #42
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LOL. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.
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      10-10-2007, 11:32 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
If I were organising work on this scale for myself I would at least ask the builder if he would be prepared to work to a recognised form of contract. It's not hard to do so and in reality a formal contract document would not necessarily need to be executed. All that would be required is a simple exchange of letters confirming that the contract would be JCT minor works.

This may be unrealistic for lots of small builders, but larger contractors (including anyone who undertakes new build work) will understand what the JCT contract is and be prepared to work to it.

The point of JCT contracts is that they protect the interests of both the client AND the contractor

I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you in the construction industry?
Given that JCTs are so contractor friendly I would be concerned if

1. they had never heard of it, and,
2. they would not enter into one
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      10-10-2007, 11:46 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this? Are you in the construction industry?
I have never known someone in procurement able to do a technical, commercial or quality review on a specialist supplier! It needs input from other specialsts which needs managing by guess who? The Project Manager. Who raises the purchase requisition, it surely is not the procurement / purchasing else the company would be wide open to fraud! My sales guys are constantly liasing with project managers when we are bidding for sub-contracts or prime contracts. I am with you Needforspeed (didn't I come across you on an E60 forum?) and Evildiesel
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