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      10-10-2007, 01:02 PM   #45
silverbmwz3
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So if this JCT thing is so contractor friendly do I want one ?

To be honest I'm happy if the spec and tinmescales and payment schedule are agreed.
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      10-10-2007, 01:08 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
So if this JCT thing is so contractor friendly do I want one ?

To be honest I'm happy if the spec and tinmescales and payment schedule are agreed.
It is a balanced contract so no harm in asking as it could prevent trouble. You pay your money and take yer choice.
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      10-10-2007, 01:27 PM   #47
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Hey Silver, do you want a nice Air Conditioning system in your new exstension (Will save on them horrible radiators)

Last edited by squeezebm; 10-10-2007 at 02:05 PM.
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      10-10-2007, 01:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by jwbmw View Post
I have never known someone in procurement able to do a technical, commercial or quality review on a specialist supplier! It needs input from other specialsts which needs managing by guess who? The Project Manager. Who raises the purchase requisition, it surely is not the procurement / purchasing else the company would be wide open to fraud! My sales guys are constantly liasing with project managers when we are bidding for sub-contracts or prime contracts. I am with you Needforspeed (didn't I come across you on an E60 forum?) and Evildiesel
That's why I didn't really understand the comment. Most project managers in the industry get involved in contractor and supplier selection as well as terms and conditions of contract. The majority of project managers on the client side have responsibility for procurement of construction contracts and professional services.

We may have talked on e60.net - I used to have a 530d.

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Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
So if this JCT thing is so contractor friendly do I want one ?

To be honest I'm happy if the spec and tinmescales and payment schedule are agreed.
Construction is reliant on contracts and bespoke ones can be problematic, since the lawyers are usually the only ones who really understand what each party is agreeing to.

Some years ago a joint industry consortium was formed - the 'joint contracts tribunal'. They developed standard forms of contract that protected all parties in the construction process. There are other standard forms out there but these are the most popular.

It's not simply a case of making the timescale clear, you also need to know what happens in the case of a delay, or in the event that you vary the contract by altering the specification.

You don't need to use one of these contracts. Main thing is to make your agreement as clear as possible. However, what they really achieve is to introduce a mechanism by which disputes and delays can be resolved without resorting to litigation.

I'd just ask them what form the paperwork would be in ... written acceptance of a quotation, formal order or standard form of contract.
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      10-10-2007, 01:40 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
We may have talked on e60.net - I used to have a 530d.
I had a 525d so we probably got involved in the 530d v 525d and 525d v 520d debates. Good forum the e60.net
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      10-10-2007, 01:42 PM   #50
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Interesting thread, even more so after just returning from the Housebuilding Federation Exhibition at the Design Centre in Islington.

Silver you might find the following link useful:

http://www.findabuilder.co.uk/why/contractsNew/

As many members have mentioned,I would suggest you seriously consider entering into a JCT minor works contract with your builder,whilst it does indeed protect the interests of the builder, far more importantly it protects YOU

Most contractors these days (even small ones) should not shy away from such a contract, and I would tend to steer clear of any contractors that refuse to consider such a contract.

As mentioned previously YOUR spec is paramount,without some form of agreement on this subject alone, you could end up in a dispute at a very early stage.

The price you mentioned does not sound bad on the face of it,just tread warily and best of luck with it.

Interesting to note how many members are in the construction industry in some form or another,it's been in my blood for 34 odd years!
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      10-10-2007, 02:18 PM   #51
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Interesting to note how many members are in the construction industry in some form or another,it's been in my blood for 34 odd years!
Not another builder
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      10-10-2007, 03:20 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwbmw View Post
I have never known someone in procurement able to do a technical, commercial or quality review on a specialist supplier! It needs input from other specialsts which needs managing by guess who? The Project Manager. Who raises the purchase requisition, it surely is not the procurement / purchasing else the company would be wide open to fraud!
Absolute rubbish!! You obviously don't know the industry -this whole debate started talking about development, your drifting! into civils and MC.
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      10-10-2007, 03:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by deejaygee View Post
Absolute rubbish!! You obviously don't know the industry -this whole debate started talking about development, your drifting! into civils and MC.
That being the APM BOK or similar which are generic and not civils biased and BTW I operate in the process, mining, rail, airport, electrical/electronics sectors and supply/purchase software but hey I can stay
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      10-10-2007, 03:59 PM   #54
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Oh, and just one final point, contractors make a margin on the build, they make their profit on variations.

Ge the spec right in your head first and don't change things on the way through unless you get a firm cost before issuing the instruction.
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      10-10-2007, 04:14 PM   #55
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Evil Diesel Oh, and just one final point, contractors make a margin on the build, they make their profit on variations.

Ge the spec right in your head first and don't change things on the way through unless you get a firm cost before issuing the instruction.
Boom tisch.
Nail (galvanized) on head Evil!
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      10-10-2007, 04:37 PM   #56
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No-one talked about galvanised in the spec.

Thats another 2000 please.
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      10-10-2007, 04:51 PM   #57
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Evil Diesel No-one talked about galvanised in the spec.
Thats another 2000 please.
Classic example of how there can be tears before bedtime.
You say nails when you really need to be specific

The nasty evil contractor stuffs you with an extra over!

I can see the story already,publication 'Building Magazine',writer Tony Bingham, case:

Silver V Cash & Dash.

Spec it like you spec your beemer!
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      10-10-2007, 04:57 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by deejaygee View Post
Absolute rubbish!! You obviously don't know the industry -this whole debate started talking about development, your drifting! into civils and MC.
Deejaygee ... who are you and what are you talking about?

I don't know if you actually work in the construction industry or anything about your experience.
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      10-11-2007, 05:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by squeezebm View Post
Hey Silver, do you want a nice Air Conditioning system in your new exstension (Will save on them horrible radiators)
Might do actually Was thinking under floor heating for heating but I think if conservatory is the way we go (still not 100% decided) air con would be nice. Do you do that then?
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      10-11-2007, 05:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
Deejaygee ... who are you and what are you talking about?

I don't know if you actually work in the construction industry or anything about your experience.
I think he wasn't referring to you NFS Does that help ?!
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      10-11-2007, 05:45 AM   #61
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Thanks for all the advice guys. If you want to have a construction argument with cardigans and safety helmets at dawn then go ahead
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      10-11-2007, 06:08 AM   #62
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silverbmwz3 Thanks for all the advice guys. If you want to have a construction argument with cardigans and safety helmets at dawn then go ahead
Cardigans are sooo 90's Silver,we've moved on now,it's Armani Hi-visibility vests(good for showing off your tattoo's) & Hi-vis donkey jackets.
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      10-11-2007, 06:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
I think he wasn't referring to you NFS Does that help ?!
It helps a bit ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Thanks for all the advice guys. If you want to have a construction argument with cardigans and safety helmets at dawn then go ahead
You are welcome on the advice front. I hope the project goes well.

I'm just a bit intrigued by deejaygee's comments. I can't understand what point he was making and it did sound as if he was suggesting that I had 'made up' my job.

I've been doing this for more than 10 years now and if I was going to make it up I'd choose something better ... like 'professional guitarist' or 'racing driver'.
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      10-11-2007, 06:11 AM   #64
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Cardigans are sooo 90's Silver,we've moved on now,it's Armani Hi-visibility vests(good for showing off your tattoo's) & Hi-vis donkey jackets.
I've never seen anyone on-site in a cardigan.

I was watching a documentary about the Windscale nuclear plant earlier in the week and the archive footage of it's construction was incredible.

This was in the early 50's and all the site labour seemed to be dressed in shirt's suits, cloth caps and in one case smoking a pipe whilst crawling around unrestrained on top of the cooling tower.
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      10-11-2007, 06:20 AM   #65
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Ahhh - the good old days. Apparantly a starched cotton shirt, cloth cap and a pipe can protect you from a 60' fall.

All these CDM guys out there now clearly know cock all.
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      10-11-2007, 08:11 AM   #66
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Exactly who needs Health and Safety Legislation when construction workers can work out solutions like these:
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