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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Quaife vs Wavetrac vs OS Giken



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      11-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #155
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      01-23-2014, 09:31 AM   #156
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I'm new to tuning and have taken a rather slow progression since my car came out of warranty two years ago. I have generally read various threads, researched prices and made small changes to my car. I came across the idea of installing the Quaife LSD on these forums and since I didn't really understand the difference it would make, went with other upgrades I have a better feel for in terms of cost/benefit. Boy was I wrong.

I went to VAC motorsports last Monday and had the Quaife installed on my day off. Although I had a welded diff, Mike had a pre-built one in stock and they were able to swap it out in about 5 hours. They took great care of me and I passed the time on their wifi/reading. Mike even gave me a tour and took me back a few times to see the progress on my car.

It's CRAZY how much more traction my car has. We got a snowstorm here in Maryland the day after the install and I usually struggle to get up the hill into my neighborhood in the city; it is now no problem. Instead of the DTC kicking in immediately, I can FEEL the rear end searching for traction. The rear end used to kick out to one side pretty consistently if I was driving in a straight line in the snow and I lost traction (before the DTC kicked in). Now it kicked a little to one side and then back to the other but pretty much stayed planted and moved forward. If the improvement at the track is anything like in the snow, it will have been worth all of the research and inner turmoil over the cost.

I will parrot some of the things said in earlier threads about just feeling more safe and planted and hope this translates into more confidence mid-corner on the few HPDE events I go to a year. After just a few days of driving with the Quaife, I can't understand from a safety standpoint how this isn't standard. I've read various things about BMW wanting to differentiate between the E90/91/92 and the M's, but this is a no-brainer. I'm not sure I would have taken a different upgrade path (I really liked what the COBB did to my car), but so far I'm very happy. Oh, and there is no difference in noise - no clunking.
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      01-23-2014, 11:08 AM   #157
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Good post and review man. I'm on the fence with getting a LSD because I've already thrown so much money into my car.
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      01-23-2014, 11:38 AM   #158
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I'm new to tuning and have taken a rather slow progression since my car came out of warranty two years ago. I have generally read various threads, researched prices and made small changes to my car. I came across the idea of installing the Quaife LSD on these forums and since I didn't really understand the difference it would make, went with other upgrades I have a better feel for in terms of cost/benefit. Boy was I wrong.

I went to VAC motorsports last Monday and had the Quaife installed on my day off. Although I had a welded diff, Mike had a pre-built one in stock and they were able to swap it out in about 5 hours. They took great care of me and I passed the time on their wifi/reading. Mike even gave me a tour and took me back a few times to see the progress on my car.

It's CRAZY how much more traction my car has. We got a snowstorm here in Maryland the day after the install and I usually struggle to get up the hill into my neighborhood in the city; it is now no problem. Instead of the DTC kicking in immediately, I can FEEL the rear end searching for traction. The rear end used to kick out to one side pretty consistently if I was driving in a straight line in the snow and I lost traction (before the DTC kicked in). Now it kicked a little to one side and then back to the other but pretty much stayed planted and moved forward. If the improvement at the track is anything like in the snow, it will have been worth all of the research and inner turmoil over the cost.

I will parrot some of the things said in earlier threads about just feeling more safe and planted and hope this translates into more confidence mid-corner on the few HPDE events I go to a year. After just a few days of driving with the Quaife, I can't understand from a safety standpoint how this isn't standard. I've read various things about BMW wanting to differentiate between the E90/91/92 and the M's, but this is a no-brainer. I'm not sure I would have taken a different upgrade path (I really liked what the COBB did to my car), but so far I'm very happy. Oh, and there is no difference in noise - no clunking.
I did notice a difference at the Summit Point HDPE events before LSD and after LSD. However, it's hard to pin down the exact cause-and-effect. Because, before I had a stock non-sport suspension except Bilstein B6 dampers and I was still on OEM 17" runflats. Afterwards I was on Michelin 18" PSS and a completely redone suspension as can be seen in my signature block or my profile. However, perhaps the best indication was when applying power coming out of a turn. As I have mentioned in other posts, I find it hard to control power output; I have a hard time not overdoing it, and with all the torque I have the rear end can get away from you. Having said that, the "after" corner exit experience was much more composed. The rear end had more control, for example not wanting to slide out to the left coming out of a high speed right-hander as in the "before" case. Of course some of that could be attributed to better tires and to slightly improved driving skills on my part.
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      01-23-2014, 02:15 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by 335dFan
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Originally Posted by dbicker View Post
I'm new to tuning and have taken a rather slow progression since my car came out of warranty two years ago. I have generally read various threads, researched prices and made small changes to my car. I came across the idea of installing the Quaife LSD on these forums and since I didn't really understand the difference it would make, went with other upgrades I have a better feel for in terms of cost/benefit. Boy was I wrong.

I went to VAC motorsports last Monday and had the Quaife installed on my day off. Although I had a welded diff, Mike had a pre-built one in stock and they were able to swap it out in about 5 hours. They took great care of me and I passed the time on their wifi/reading. Mike even gave me a tour and took me back a few times to see the progress on my car.

It's CRAZY how much more traction my car has. We got a snowstorm here in Maryland the day after the install and I usually struggle to get up the hill into my neighborhood in the city; it is now no problem. Instead of the DTC kicking in immediately, I can FEEL the rear end searching for traction. The rear end used to kick out to one side pretty consistently if I was driving in a straight line in the snow and I lost traction (before the DTC kicked in). Now it kicked a little to one side and then back to the other but pretty much stayed planted and moved forward. If the improvement at the track is anything like in the snow, it will have been worth all of the research and inner turmoil over the cost.

I will parrot some of the things said in earlier threads about just feeling more safe and planted and hope this translates into more confidence mid-corner on the few HPDE events I go to a year. After just a few days of driving with the Quaife, I can't understand from a safety standpoint how this isn't standard. I've read various things about BMW wanting to differentiate between the E90/91/92 and the M's, but this is a no-brainer. I'm not sure I would have taken a different upgrade path (I really liked what the COBB did to my car), but so far I'm very happy. Oh, and there is no difference in noise - no clunking.
I did notice a difference at the Summit Point HDPE events before LSD and after LSD. However, it's hard to pin down the exact cause-and-effect. Because, before I had a stock non-sport suspension except Bilstein B6 dampers and I was still on OEM 17" runflats. Afterwards I was on Michelin 18" PSS and a completely redone suspension as can be seen in my signature block or my profile. However, perhaps the best indication was when applying power coming out of a turn. As I have mentioned in other posts, I find it hard to control power output; I have a hard time not overdoing it, and with all the torque I have the rear end can get away from you. Having said that, the "after" corner exit experience was much more composed. The rear end had more control, for example not wanting to slide out to the left coming out of a high speed right-hander as in the "before" case. Of course some of that could be attributed to better tires and to slightly improved driving skills on my part.
Jack. Like you i started from stock. The 2d track day was a little wet so i think it tended to amplify the shortfalls of the car. I knew after day 1 i would need a brake upgrade (pads) and LSD. I could feel brake fade on successive laps and also could feel an inability to put all mu power down without DSC kicking in out of corners. Suspension mods are needed too but im surprised VAC didnt sell you on brakes first.
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      01-23-2014, 02:41 PM   #160
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Jack. Like you i started from stock. The 2d track day was a little wet so i think it tended to amplify the shortfalls of the car. I knew after day 1 i would need a brake upgrade (pads) and LSD. I could feel brake fade on successive laps and also could feel an inability to put all mu power down without DSC kicking in out of corners. Suspension mods are needed too but im surprised VAC didnt sell you on brakes first.
VAC put stainless steel lines on. I have never noticed any problem with brake fade at the HPDE. Maybe it's 'cuz I am not going all out in the sense of waiting to the bitter end and hitting the brakes hard. I am never hard on brakes, so maybe it's just the way I drive. Having said that, I do recall at the end of one or two sessions I was starting to feel or sense something about the brakes. If I were going to make a habit of the HPDE (still TBD), I would probably improve the pads for the track. That's about all though. The next circuit I will probably do is the Main Circuit at Summit Point, and my guess is that it will be harder on brakes than the other two circuits.
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      01-23-2014, 02:48 PM   #161
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Good post and review man. I'm on the fence with getting a LSD because I've already thrown so much money into my car.
If my girlfriend only knew......in fact looking at my signature it makes me shake my head. I think the term is "slippery slope."
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      01-23-2014, 02:56 PM   #162
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If my girlfriend only knew......in fact looking at my signature it makes me shake my head. I think the term is "slippery slope."
How do you like your pads?
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      01-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #163
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Lots of bite. Way better than stock once they heat up; however, I don't have a comparison to anything other than the stock pads. The were highly recommended so it's what I went with.

I did cook my brake fluid with these pads at Summit Point main in the spring of last year which led to a quick fluid change at the track and the decision to install the SS brake lines and ATE Blue fluid. I haven't been back to the track since the upgrade of the lines and my new PSS tires. Needless to say I'm excited for the next event....waiting to see what end of Feb weather looks like for Summit Point Main.
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      01-23-2014, 03:10 PM   #164
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Lots of bite. Way better than stock once they heat up; however, I don't have a comparison to anything other than the stock pads. The were highly recommended so it's what I went with.

I did cook my brake fluid with these pads at Summit Point main in the spring of last year which led to a quick fluid change at the track and the decision to install the SS brake lines and ATE Blue fluid. I haven't been back to the track since the upgrade of the lines and my new PSS tires. Needless to say I'm excited for the next event....waiting to see what end of Feb weather looks like for Summit Point Main.
I will probably wait until May. Maybe I'll have At Speed sell me some pads and refresh my fluid. Need to redo the fluid before passing the inspection anyway.

Sorry for thread hijack.
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      01-23-2014, 03:21 PM   #165
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If my girlfriend only knew......in fact looking at my signature it makes me shake my head. I think the term is "slippery slope."
Pricey mod for sure but well worth it. I'm complaining about the LSD and it just dawned on me that I've recently blown $2,500 on new rotors, pads and SS brake lines.
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      01-24-2014, 08:48 PM   #166
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I have a full set (4) of PFC-08 that are boxed up with 7-10 laps on them. Unfortunately i had a Warped rotor (prior to pad installation) so i had to pull them for dealer to address. Now i am on mil orders for a year before i will get to track my car again, to make a long story short, if you want to try them, id probably be willing to cut you a deal, maybe even offer to take them back if you dont like. If not, ill get around to using them eventually.
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      01-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #167
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Pricey mod for sure but well worth it. I'm complaining about the LSD and it just dawned on me that I've recently blown $2,500 on new rotors, pads and SS brake lines.
Lol. I was just thinking that when I saw your first comment. Those are some great brakes though. Bite on the LSD! I'll live vicariously through you.
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      01-25-2014, 12:01 AM   #168
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I have a full set (4) of PFC-08 that are boxed up with 7-10 laps on them. Unfortunately i had a Warped rotor (prior to pad installation) so i had to pull them for dealer to address. Now i am on mil orders for a year before i will get to track my car again, to make a long story short, if you want to try them, id probably be willing to cut you a deal, maybe even offer to take them back if you dont like. If not, ill get around to using them eventually.
I'm a pretty slow over-analyzer and over-agonizing decision-maker with car stuff, but I'll keep this in mind as I ponder my braking future.
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      01-25-2014, 09:18 AM   #169
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Pricey mod for sure but well worth it. I'm complaining about the LSD and it just dawned on me that I've recently blown $2,500 on new rotors, pads and SS brake lines.
Lol. I was just thinking that when I saw your first comment. Those are some great brakes though. Bite on the LSD! I'll live vicariously through you.
I hear ya FR. I think when I factor everything in, I'd be looking at $4,000 - 5,000 for it. This includes the unit, exchange rate, shipping, taxes, oil, installation and returning my core.
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      01-25-2014, 11:48 AM   #170
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I have a full set (4) of PFC-08 that are boxed up with 7-10 laps on them. Unfortunately i had a Warped rotor (prior to pad installation) so i had to pull them for dealer to address. Now i am on mil orders for a year before i will get to track my car again, to make a long story short, if you want to try them, id probably be willing to cut you a deal, maybe even offer to take them back if you dont like. If not, ill get around to using them eventually.
I'm a pretty slow over-analyzer and over-agonizing decision-maker with car stuff, but I'll keep this in mind as I ponder my braking future.
Haha. That sounds familiar. My first cal to VAC was over a year ago and i still dont have my LSD
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      02-11-2014, 01:23 AM   #171
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Is there a reason nobody seems to mention/discuss the Wavetrac LSD option much in the thread?
I'm considering both Quaife and Wavetrac.
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      02-11-2014, 07:32 AM   #172
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Is there a reason nobody seems to mention/discuss the Wavetrac LSD option much in the thread?
I'm considering both Quaife and Wavetrac.
Quaife is most popular on the forum for street/track use and OSG for the more serious folks. Wavetrac seems to be a perfectly good option as well, but it is not often favored here

Personally, while I like the idea of the wavetrac lockout with single-wheel lift, I trust the name & warranty/backing of the Quaife more. This (or the OSG if I wanted to splurge) would be my choice. If you want an interesting test and you are actively considering the purchase, call VAC who reps all three and see which they recommend (they'll probably steer you toward the Quaife).

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      02-24-2014, 05:12 PM   #173
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If you want an interesting test and you are actively considering the purchase, call VAC who reps all three and see which they recommend (they'll probably steer you toward the Quaife).

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Just pulled the trigger on a Quaife.
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      02-24-2014, 05:44 PM   #174
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Haha! Just saw my thread bumped, saw your name and told myself before I even opened it: "He bought one!"

Congrats man! Did you send your core? Used core? New core!

You going to install it yourself?
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      02-24-2014, 05:52 PM   #175
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Haha! Just saw my thread bumped, saw your name and told myself before I even opened it: "He bought one!"

Congrats man! Did you send your core? Used core? New core!

You going to install it yourself?
I'm still wincing from the wallet-pain... Dang that's expensive. Took me about 2 years to convince myself on this purchase.

I kept waiting for someone else to supply a used core ... but nothing. So I bought the "new housing" they already have built up and ready and then will ship my "used diff" back. After sending my DPF to Scotland and being without the car for weeks I'm not keen on being without it again. So I'm taking another one for Team D. Everyone else will have a less expensive "used core" route to work with now when using VAC.

Planning to help install at the local Diesel Shop with the owner. We worked together on the exhaust stuff recently. He's got multiple lifts that are way nicer than my setup.

Last edited by TDIwyse; 02-24-2014 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Added the "install" stuff
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      02-24-2014, 05:52 PM   #176
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Just pulled the trigger on a Quaife.
Welcome to the Quaife Club. It sounds a bit like a '60s hallucinogenic.
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