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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Why not get an aftermarket 2-way pager ALARM instead of the factory system?



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      02-05-2006, 07:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
Itís a waste of money because I have never heard of one of these systems actually working well. Its worthless in the majority of situations where you will be in a building or home and the walls bring the range down to cordless phone levels (feet through walls; 1/4 miles in line of sight open areas). Maybe you never go indoors and live in Nebraska. In that case the paging system may work most of the time
a.) My deductible is pocket change to me. Unlike many, I donít buy a car that is beyond my means so I can afford the small cost of deductibles.
b.) I have 30 days rental coverage which I would probably never need (see item c) and I can drive another one of my vehicles before/after the 30 days.
c.) I have replacement cost coverage and no loans on my vehicles. A deductible check is all I need to write to get a brand new car.
d.) No more lost time than you would have dealing with police and insurance when the car is broken into and/or stolen.

Time to repair, your deductible, a rental while in the shop and time with insurance all applies in your case too. So you are not saving any of this by being notified earlier of the assault on your car.

Same thing applies to your car. Lets face it, by the time you get the page (if it works) you will have to verify the problem and then call the police. By this time the thief is gone with your car. They didnt call the movie 'Gone in 60 Seconds' for nothing - a typical thief will have the car moving before you can get out the door of your house/building. Not sure where you live but police donít respond that fast to auto thefts which donít involve car jacking (first party personal assault). Its just property and the police wonít be sending out a search party. Your car would get just as damaged if you are notified or not. At least you can watch your car be driven away before the police arrive
Neither does a paging system. Only the alarm will do this Ė a good reason to buy the factory alarm.

So far I have read nothing but bad reasons for buying these over promised paging systems. If these paging systems are so good everyone would be buying them and they wouldnít cost less than an alarm. If they worked it would be a feature BMW adds to their alarm\fob or sold aftermarket for lots of money. I still donít see how being notified immediately actually gives you better security than an alarm, LoJack, BMW Assist or good insurance.


Re: Making the clown nose blink:I agree someone will figure out some hack for the e90 clown nose. The e46 wasnít a hack in order to make it work. The e46ís clown nose blinks when the car is locked for both alarmed and non-alarmed vehicles. They came from the factory that way.
You put it very nicely. I'm in the same boat minus the extra M3 and range...

And since I've got the 330 now, I wouldnt downgrade to the 328, it would be the 335 for me...
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      02-05-2006, 07:01 PM   #24
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OK, I'm going to tell you all about my last car and it might give you some insight as to why car alarms with pagers make some sense.

My last car was an 02 Nissan Maxima, the 02-03 model got a makeover that included Xenon headlights. Nissan basically slapped on the Xenons with a few plastic brackets and that made them very easy to remove, lift the hood or peal back the fenders. Thieves mostly targeted maximas with the stock alarm.

I know this firsthand, they took mine right outside my apartment in the parking lot, they cut the wires to the horn and probably took their time, the stock alarm is hooked into the horn, they didnt even break into the car, they lifted the hood as much as they could, peeled back the fenders and yanked them out.

Needless to say I was amazed that something like that could happen right outside my window, and then found out it was a common thing with that model.

After doing some research and talking to an alarm specialist, I went with an alarm system that had a pager plus shock & hood release sensor. Its true the range was only a few blocks but the peace of mind when I was near the car was enough, so if any of you are paranoid about the car when its in your parking lot at work or if you live in an apartment complex its the way to go.

Its not perfect but It worked for me, they didnt take the heads again and I slept much better at night.

I went with the factory alarm on my E90, I sure miss that remote start.
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      02-05-2006, 07:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
Itís a waste of money because I have never heard of one of these systems actually working well. Its worthless in the majority of situations where you will be in a building or home and the walls bring the range down to cordless phone levels (feet through walls; 1/4 miles in line of sight open areas).
Okay, so it sounds like you don't really have any personal experience with these systems...this is pure speculation, and probably based on cheap models from older generations. I have a hard time believing that a high-end model that claims 3000ft range (over half a mile), will drop down to 100 ft....unless perhaps you live in a bomb shelter with 2-ft steel walls.

Quote:
Maybe you never go indoors and live in Nebraska. In that case the paging system may work most of the time
How did you know? I actually put "San Francisco, CA" right underneath my name as a decoy....though not everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to figure out that San Francisco is NOT in Nebraska. (Hint: it's not)

Quote:
a.) My deductible is pocket change to me. Unlike many, I donít buy a car that is beyond my means so I can afford the small cost of deductibles.
You might want to check your math on that. Using geico.com, the difference in 6-month premium between $250 and $1000-deductible comprehensive coverage is $30. Thus, in 12.5 years, you've actually PAID the $750 difference in extra insurance. You "think" that if your car is stolen, you only "lose" $250 instead of $1000...instead, you're actually PAYING that $750 difference through higher insurance premiums. In fact, if your car is NOT stolen in 12.5 years, then you've actually LOST $750 compared to someone who purchased the $1000-deductible insurance.
And as an aside, perhaps some people purchase insurance coverage with high-deductibles because they've purchased a car beyond their means and can't afford low-deductibles...but I think that's a little presumptuous of you, don't you think?

Quote:
c.) I have replacement cost coverage
This is actually great coverage to have, but it doesn't apply to everyone (by any means), and I still argue that for MOST people, the cost of a stolen car goes way-beyond the deductible.

Early notification increases the likelihood that:
a) the car will be recovered
b) if recovered, the car has not been chopped up yet into pieces
c) or if belongings/stereo stolen from the car, that a suspect will be apprehended and the items returned

Quote:
Same thing applies to your car. Lets face it, by the time you get the page (if it works) you will have to verify the problem and then call the police. By this time the thief is gone with your car. They didnt call the movie 'Gone in 60 Seconds' for nothing - a typical thief will have the car moving before you can get out the door of your house/building.
Exactly. Takes 1 minute to walk outside and notice your car is being broken into or driven off, or GONE. Takes another 30 seconds to call 911. The alternative, you don't know til the next morning. Probably 12 hours later. Think about how far you can drive in 12 hours...or how much disassembly you can do.

Scorecard:
2-way pager: notification within minutes (including time to verify car is gone)
NO pager: probably many hours, if not longer

Quote:
Not sure where you live but police donít respond that fast to auto thefts which donít involve car jacking (first party personal assault). Its just property and the police wonít be sending out a search party.
Police dispatch can send out an APB if you tell them the car has JUST been stolen. If you tell them it was stolen "sometime last night," they'll just send a squad car down to your address, take a report, and "hopefully the car will turn up, m'am"

Quote:
Your car would get just as damaged if you are notified or not. At least you can watch your car be driven away before the police arrive
Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, this is not a primary argument of mine. Again, if you can see your car being driven away, you have a much higher chance of recovery (see above)...the longer you wait, the greater likelihood the car is already reduced to "parts."

Quote:
So far I have read nothing but bad reasons for buying these over promised paging systems.
On the contrary, the only counterarguments I"ve heard are:
a) based on speculation and 3rd hand experience, the [probably older models] have poor range and/or people don't like them
b) notification of car theft within minutes vs. many hours makes no difference
c) if my car is stolen, insurance will take care of everything
d) LoJack can help recover you car - I actually think LoJack in combination with 2-way paging would be even better (for reasons stated earlier).

I've addressed each any every one of the above points to my satisfaction so far. As of now, I'm still waiting for solid reasons to choose the factory alarm over a 2-way paging system.

Quote:
If these paging systems are so good everyone would be buying them and they wouldnít cost less than an alarm.
a) there are NUMEROUS reasons that could explain why 2-way pagers aren't as popular OTHER THAN "they're not so good".
- nonexistent advertisement or awareness of these devices
- reluctance to have 3rd party touch the car
- convenience of having the dealer just slap in the factory alarm
- fear of voiding vehicle warranty
- list goes on and on and on. this is a poor argument
b) 2-way paging systems cost MORE than equivalent aftermarket alarms. It's also common knowledge that the OEM alarm has a huge markup...of COURSE an aftermarket setup will cost less..another poor argument.

Quote:
If they worked it would be a feature BMW adds to their alarm\fob or sold aftermarket for lots of money.
That's a terrible argument. BMW is in the business of selling cars, not providing the best aftermarket alarm available. In fact, if your car is stolen, chances are you'll buy ANOTHER BMW, which further enhances profitability. Their current security system seems to satisfy most buyers = no incentive to integrate this technology.

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      02-05-2006, 07:22 PM   #26
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If you already have all the answers then just buy the paging system. Why even ask questions. I donít feel like wasting my time with someone with your logic.
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      02-05-2006, 07:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
If you already have all the answers then just buy the paging system. Why even ask questions. I donít feel like wasting my time with someone with your logic.
Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Sometimes it's helpful to see what others think, in case you miss something. That's why.

If you don't like wasting your time, nobody put a gun to your head asking your to respond. If you have problems with my logic, why don't you respond to the points I made above.

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      02-05-2006, 08:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellygas
Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Sometimes it's helpful to see what others think, in case you miss something. That's why.

If you don't like wasting your time, nobody put a gun to your head asking your to respond. If you have problems with my logic, why don't you respond to the points I made above.

SmellyGas
good luck with ur high end pager alarm system!
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      02-05-2006, 08:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by govtec
good luck with ur high end pager alarm system!
So, I'm right about you, huh. heh,heh.

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      02-05-2006, 09:05 PM   #30
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why do you even want to know exactly when you're car's being messed with, are you going to go stop them personally????

cheesedick aftermarket crap does not belong on a BMW, it belongs on some stupid honda with 3 grand worth of stereo equipment in the trunk
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      02-05-2006, 10:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
why do you even want to know exactly when you're car's being messed with, are you going to go stop them personally????

cheesedick aftermarket crap does not belong on a BMW, it belongs on some stupid honda with 3 grand worth of stereo equipment in the trunk
I have aftermarket HID's on order for my fogs, but no cheesedick alarm here mister
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      02-05-2006, 10:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
why do you even want to know exactly when you're car's being messed with, are you going to go stop them personally????
I've already covered this comprehensively -- see above.

Quote:
cheesedick aftermarket crap does not belong on a BMW, it belongs on some stupid honda with 3 grand worth of stereo equipment in the trunk
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how this contributes to the conversation.

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      02-05-2006, 10:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellygas

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how this contributes to the conversation.

SmellyGas
why are you even having this conversation

if you want the stupid thing go buy it and tell us how great it is once you get it installed
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      02-05-2006, 11:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward
why are you even having this conversation

if you want the stupid thing go buy it and tell us how great it is once you get it installed

I second that motion... :rocks:
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      02-06-2006, 12:00 AM   #35
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Yeah, so given the degeneration in the quality of responses, I take it that there really are no solid reasons not to get a 2-way paging alarm over the factory alarm. In fact, a couple of people with actual experience with the systems have commented that they wish they had 2-way pagers on their existing E90's.

My biggest concern (that nobody brought up) is that I wouldn't want some aftermarket shop to hack up my E90, given that the electrical system is proprietary and prone to mysterious "warning lights." I kind of like the solution someone brought up in another thread -- MobileGuardian, which notifies you by pager/cell when the factory alarm goes off, and you can track the vehicle's location live on the web. So it has the benefit of instant notification of theft/vandalism, PLUS the benefit of vehicle recovery (similar to LoJack). I'll probably go with that solution.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

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      02-20-2006, 01:43 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellygas
My biggest concern (that nobody brought up) is that I wouldn't want some aftermarket shop to hack up my E90,
This would be my number one concern as well. Actually, too bad the alarm wasn't factory installed like on my Audi. I'm still on the fence about the OEM alarm for the e90 because I don't even want the dealer touching the car. I have a feeling it wouldn't be a BMW tech doing the install, but one of the young apprentices.
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      02-20-2006, 01:59 AM   #37
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Not that I want to get into this argument, but I would like to point out that the original post was about the superiority of an aftermarket alarm system as compared to the OEM alarm. Then everyone begain attacking aftermarket alarms without even addressing the advantages/disadvantages of the aftermarket alarm vs. the OEM alarm. Most of the complaints were how good the paging system does or does not work, but the OEM system has no pager at all.
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      02-20-2006, 02:19 AM   #38
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Seems like the major differences would be the convenience of the OEM alarm (No new fob and the car is prewired), the blinking clown nose, and no worries about any possible warranty issues. The aftermarket alarms are probably more capable but you'd need a second fob (convenience), you'd either need to figure out how to make the clown nose work or get another light to indicate the alarm is on (deterant) and you would have to be careful of how the alarm is installed to ensure there are minimal warranty issues. my 2c
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