E90Post
 


 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > Say what????



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-02-2014, 10:27 PM   #23
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Agreed - old folks can say stuff others only think. But this guy has ben making these comments his entire life. Either he doesn't have a filter, or just doesn't give a crap. Either way, it's entertaining - as long as it doesn't start a war...
Yes, I guess I do have to agree with that, the guy seems to have a long record of basically being a snob. Too, he is the consort to the queen regnant of England. It could well be, particularly given his social status -- the man was born a prince -- even before marrying her, that he rarely after childhood cared much what he said and how it might be taken by others, and after marrying Elizabeth, he genuinely may have had no reason to care to what little extent he might have before.

At the end of the day, the people are her subjects, not his, and if he and his comments were to have become that much of a problem, he could have been required to eschew public appearances and/or the common people didn't have to solicit his presence at them, relegating him to a life with only his peers. It'd have been awkward, but it could have been done too. Prince or not, there's only so much people will take. Apparently Prince Phillip hasn't doled out more than folks will endure.

While none of that fully exculpates him for his apparent rudeness in his younger days -- even I, with my willingness to find forgiveness for others, have to acknowledge the caustic snobbery of some of his comments -- his age now gives him something of a "pass." I guess in some way, being the grandson of a king who was forced to abdicate, resulting eventually in his father's flight to exile in England, had something to do with demeanor.

He lived a privileged life by most folks' measure, but I'm sure there must have been some angst and a "chip on his shoulder" of sorts over the unfortunate circumstances his family faced. I suspect in the back of his mind, or even not too terribly far back, he's a prince and "you're not, despite your wealth and good fortune," and he's not going to let you forget it by addressing you in a way that lets you feel "cozy" with him. Just speculation on my part....

Sidebar:
One thing unrelated to the Duke's comments is that Duke of Edinburgh's Award thing he created. Not having grown up in the U.K., it strikes me as odd to give acclaim to youngsters for accomplishing that which they should, and should want to, do on their own in the first place. I don't think the Award is a bad thing, just that it's an odd thing. I wasn't/am not a parent who rewarded/rewards -- beyond saying "well done" or something like that -- his kids for doing what's expected of them, so the idea of a national award program that does so is beyond my comprehension.

That said, I think it's nice that the Duke made a very public and uncertain statement about the standards he holds important by creating an organization to help imbue and provide opportunities for young Britons the develop those characteristics and have experiences and accomplishments that reflect those standards. Young folks certainly have easy access to far worse sources of inspiration.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2014, 03:32 AM   #24
panicos81
Colonel
panicos81's Avatar
Cyprus
65
Rep
2,317
Posts

 
Drives: a white bmw
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cyprus

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2010 BMW E92  [4.27]
2007 e90  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
I know this discussions in this sub-forum are often quite heated. Well, this isn't likely one of those.

What religious or political comments have you come across that are just plain ridiculous. I'm not talking about matters that are or could be strongly debated, I'm talking about the stupid stuff that gets said from time to time. Here are some examples (if nothing else, our last President made me laugh often):

  • The thing that's important for me is to remember what's the most important thing.
  • One of the great things about books is sometimes there are some fantastic pictures.
George W. Bush is credited with both those pearls of wisdom.

All the best.
i think the bold parts just about sums it up..
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #25
bbbbmw
Lieutenant
6
Rep
589
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

"Sheikh 'Abd Al-Muhsin Al-'Obikan, an advisor at the Saudi Justice Ministry, recently issued a fatwa allowing the breastfeeding of adults. The fatwa is aimed at enabling an unrelated man and woman to be secluded in the same room, a situation which Islam considers forbidden gender mixing. The rationale behind the fatwa is that breastfeeding creates a bond of kinship between the man and woman, rendering the man her mahram, thus making it acceptable for them to be together in seclusion."

"It should be noted that this issue first arose in Egypt in May 2007, following a similar fatwa issued by Dr. 'Izzat 'Atiyya, formerly head of the Hadith Department at Al-Azhar University, which permitted a woman to breastfeed a man with whom she must work in private. This fatwa led to 'Atiyya's dismissal from his post at Al-Azhar."

http://www.memri.org/report/en/print4484.htm
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 01:09 PM   #26
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
"Sheikh 'Abd Al-Muhsin Al-'Obikan, an advisor at the Saudi Justice Ministry, recently issued a fatwa allowing the breastfeeding of adults. The fatwa is aimed at enabling an unrelated man and woman to be secluded in the same room, a situation which Islam considers forbidden gender mixing. The rationale behind the fatwa is that breastfeeding creates a bond of kinship between the man and woman, rendering the man her mahram, thus making it acceptable for them to be together in seclusion."

"It should be noted that this issue first arose in Egypt in May 2007, following a similar fatwa issued by Dr. 'Izzat 'Atiyya, formerly head of the Hadith Department at Al-Azhar University, which permitted a woman to breastfeed a man with whom she must work in private. This fatwa led to 'Atiyya's dismissal from his post at Al-Azhar."

http://www.memri.org/report/en/print4484.htm
+1...that's the sort of "say what" I'm talking about. LOL

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 02:45 PM   #27
954Stealth
Brigadier General
954Stealth's Avatar
United_States
187
Rep
3,099
Posts

 
Drives: A Car
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Bacon Raton, FL

iTrader: (1)

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
-- George W. Bush on 08/05/04


and for balance


"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries."
-- Barack Obama in 2010

Last edited by 954Stealth; 09-04-2014 at 02:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 03:17 PM   #28
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
UncleWede's Avatar
United_States
51
Rep
2,376
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

iTrader: (0)

What was VP Biden pontificating about the gates of hell yesterday?
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 06:18 PM   #29
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 054stealth
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
-- George W. Bush on 08/05/04


and for balance


"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries."
-- Barack Obama in 2010
+1
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 06:27 PM   #30
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
No one is perfect, but when a political leader fails to deliver on the promises he campaigned on and blunders from one foreign policy fiasco into another, the voters have every reason to question his abilities. The Obama administration's laundry list of scandals and problems has grown long...so when is it appropriate in your opinion to assign blame where blame is due?

That's what makes Obama's assessment of ISIS and his foreign policy towards Iraq, or lack thereof, so ridiculous...we've dealt with these types of threats and problems before and we've seen what they can become over time!!

Obama had the value of hindsight back in January when ISIS began to take control of Fallujah and other parts of western Iraq. We saw, under Bush, what could happen when Sunni extremist groups grew disillusioned with the Iraqi government. And yet Obama did nothing..he sat back and watched as the violence and extremism spilled over from Syria into Iraq and re-ignited the old sectarian strife that US had fought so hard to pacify during the Bush years (and had largely succeeded).

See this makes sense now. I think I have a better understanding of your views. When Obama makes blatantly obvious foreign policy mistakes....you have no issues giving him a break. Either he:
a) is only human and can't always make the right decision
b) he doesn't have the value of hindsight (which I think he did in the case of Iraq and Libya and Syria)

But when President Bush is trying to assess foreign threats in the wake of the most bloody terrorist attack on US soil, decides to force UN-sanctioned weapons compliance on a rogue state, all of a sudden the "hindsight" and "nobody is perfect" arguments don't apply....

Nice double standard...

Do you see now why I was worried that this would turn into another bash "the cowboy" session?
There is no double standard and I think the only thing about which you wondered was whether you could force this thread into a "bash 'the cowboy' session." Seen any threatening windmills lately?

I explicitly said I have no intention to bash anyone and my discussion with you about Bush and Obama has focused on the ridiculous nature of their statements, and not on what I think of their Presidencies or Administrations. It is you who interpreted my having cited Bush statements specifically as an attack on Bush.

Personally, I don't feel a need to defend or disparage Bush or Obama. There are more than enough folks who do both those things in forums that have far greater visibility than this one. It's not clear to me either why you feel the need to defend or lambaste either of them.

The fact of the matter is that the statements they made are inane and they said them. That's all that's needed for this thread. There is no need to be "balanced" in one's selection of silly statements to post so long as the statements posted are accurately quoted and attributed.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-04-2014, 08:26 PM   #31
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
UncleWede's Avatar
United_States
51
Rep
2,376
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

iTrader: (0)

Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2014, 10:37 PM   #32
bbbbmw
Lieutenant
6
Rep
589
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

I thought this was pretty good, although it's not quoting a specific politician:

1. If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for being in the country illegally, you live in a country run by idiots.

2. If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion, you live in a country run by idiots.

3. If you have to show identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book, but not to vote on who runs the government, you live in a country run by idiots.

4. If the government wants to ban stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines with more than ten rounds, but gives 20 F-16 fighter jets to the crazy leaders in Egypt, you live in a country run by idiots.

5. If, in the largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not a 24-ounce soda because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat, you live in a country run by idiots.

6. If an 80-year-old woman can be stripped searched by the TSA, but a woman in a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched, you live in a country run by idiots.

7. If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more, you live in a country run by idiots.

8. If a seven year old boy can be thrown out of grade school for saying his teacher’s “cute,” but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable, you live in a country run by idiots.

9. If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government intrusion, while not working is rewarded with EBT cards, WIC checks, Medicaid, subsidized housing, and free cell phones, you live in a country run by idiots.

10. If the government’s plan for getting people back to work is to incentivize NOT working, with 99 weeks of unemployment checks and no requirement to prove they applied but can’t find work, you live in a country run by idiots.

11. If being stripped of the ability to defend yourself makes you more “safe” according to the government, you live in a country run by idiots.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2014, 09:32 AM   #33
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
UncleWede's Avatar
United_States
51
Rep
2,376
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

iTrader: (0)

^ We walk among them
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2014, 06:32 AM   #34
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I thought this was pretty good, although it's not quoting a specific politician:

...
So all those things you posted are your silly statements?

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #35
bbbbmw
Lieutenant
6
Rep
589
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I thought this was pretty good, although it's not quoting a specific politician:

...
So all those things you posted are your silly statements?

All the best.
They are not mine, nor do I think they are silly. Many are quite factual.
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      09-17-2014, 07:54 AM   #36
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
They are not mine, nor do I think they are silly. Many are quite factual.
Oh, okay. I just wanted to confirm that seeing as the point of the thread is to post the silly comments one has heard/read.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2014, 05:53 PM   #37
bbbbmw
Lieutenant
6
Rep
589
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

Joe Biden has had another gaffe-filled week:

- Referred to people who give bad loans to military personnel as "Shylocks" (Jewish slur)

-Talked about Asia "the Orient" (Asian slur)

- Praised former Senator Bob Packwood (resigned his position in 1995 for sexual misconduct (he thought ("harass") was two words...)) for his support when in the Senate.

Wonder what next week will bring?
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2014, 12:16 PM   #38
bbbbmw
Lieutenant
6
Rep
589
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Southwest

iTrader: (0)

And "Doltin Joe Biden" has another... Yesterday the #2 most powerful person in the world said:

"The international order that we painstakingly built after World War II and defended over the past several decades is literally fraying at the seams right now."

He didn't elaborate on who might be responsible for that situation...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...s_808526.html#!
__________________
<OO (llll)(llll) OO>
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2014, 02:38 PM   #39
tony20009
Brigadier General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
4,595
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
And "Doltin Joe Biden" has another... Yesterday the #2 most powerful person in the world said:

"The international order that we painstakingly built after World War II and defended over the past several decades is literally fraying at the seams right now."

He didn't elaborate on who might be responsible
for that situation...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...s_808526.html#!
Red:
I'm sure by now you've seen enough of my comments to know how I'd consider his comment, but just in case:
  1. Was a "world order" created?
  2. Is it fraying?
  3. If it is fraying, does that need to be stopped?
  4. If "yes," then what will stop it and not cause something worse to start?
  5. How does one implement the stopping?
  6. Upon figuring that out, start implementing.
  7. Once the implementation is complete, figure out who caused the fraying.
Weblink:
  • The Weekly Standard
    As far as what The Weekly Standard blogged, I'm somewhat reticent to put much stock in the ability of that organization to report facts. I don't know what exactly it is, but I know somethings amiss -- be it intent or ability -- when a commentator/reporter doesn't understand the difference between an allusion and an explicit statement. Biden didn't allude to "wolves at the door," he expressly mentioned them.

    The allusion was to people and nations who/that he (presumably the Obama administration) pose a threat akin to that of "wolves at the door." As far as to which people/nation Biden alluded, well, that's the point of alluding rather than clear identification. Given that The Standard didn't include more of what Biden said after his canine metaphor, who the "wolves" are is anybody's guess if they didn't hear or read the rest of his address.

    I realize the distinction I mentioned above is subtle, but I expect anyone who's gong to hold themselves out as a professional or quazi-professional reporter or commentator to be aware of the difference and that they are aware of them should come through in the words they use to communicate.
Biden's Comments:
The big "say what" in what The Weekly Standard shared of Biden's address, for me, was this:
"[P]owers like Russia are using new asymmetrical forms of coercion to seek advantage like corruption and “little green men,” foreign agents, soldiers with a mission but no official uniform.."
Why "say what?"
  • What are the "new forms of asymmetrical coercion?"
    Are they materially different from the old forms?
    Should I be concerned that Russia and nations like them have found new forms and the U.S. doesn't fully understand them?
    Should I worry that nations other than the U.S. are now using "asymmetrical coercion?"
    Is there something inherently wrong or troublesome about "asymmetrical coercion" that distinguishes it from symmetrical coercion, or just plain old fashioned coercion, as a strategy/tactic?

    The Weekly Standard blogger doesn't address those questions and I don't know if Biden did. I know there is something called asymmetrical conflict. (http://strategicstudiesinstitute.arm...en-geltzer.pdf & http://web.stanford.edu/class/polisc...0IS%202001.pdf) It's reasonable to expect that his audience at the KSoG are aware of, if not fully conversant with, the idea of asymmetrical conflict and can transfer the concept to coercion. That said, every nation, organization and individual uses coercion at some point, and usually, the one doing the coercing is stronger than the one being coerced, which is the asymmetrical (unbalanced) aspect of it.

    The thing is this: those of us who don't have KSoG degrees or similar credentials would just call "asymmetrical coercion" bullying, plain and simple. Disposing with the fancy euphemism, one clearly can see that Russia is not the only bully on school yard. But like that bully from our childhood, unless the bully is specifically targeting you, there's not much need to worry about him. A bully will be a bully no matter his target.

    One doesn't worry about the fact of his being a bully, one worries about whether one is his mark. If he makes overt moves that give one a reason to think one has become his mark, one then acts to put the bully in his place so that he either (1) doesn't see one as a mark, or (2) so he takes out his frustrations at a totally different school yard. Whether to choose action one or two depends on a number of factors.
  • "To seek advantage like corruption and “little green men...”
    Tell me, please, when did corruption and "little green men" become advantages?
  • "Foreign agents, soldiers with a mission but no official uniform."
    Okay....and what first world nation doesn't hand use their spies and paramilitary forces for coercive purposes? That that is done isn't a new phenomenon. The U.S. has an agency dedicated to doing exactly that. Is there a reason for me more, now than in the past, to be concerned about the fact that another nation also has spies and paramilitary forces? The biggest difference I can discern between Russia and other nations spies and paramilitary forces and those of the U.S. is that nobody tells me what the U.S.' organizations and personnel of that nature routinely do.
Say what? Yes, Mr. Biden, I agree the things you mentioned occur/exist, but they always have, and we both know that. Russia has its Ukraine; the U.S. has its Cuba and adversaries who have no nation of their own. So what's your point?


Mr. Biden may have said what the point is, but The Weekly Standard didn't print that part of his speech. I can infer what Mr. Biden may have meant, but I know better than to do that with anything a politician says. If they don't say expressly what they mean, I'm not putting words in their mouth because my doing that tells them more about me than it tells me about what their thinking is. Which of course is why they were unclear in the first place...so they can figure out what I think and pander to me rather than telling me what they think and letting me freely decide whether I agree. And Biden had the temerity to decry Russia's coercion? Say what? Really?


All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      10-03-2014, 09:12 PM   #40
Devious21
Captain
Devious21's Avatar
No_Country
10
Rep
608
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4M
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Such a promising thread turned into such crap
__________________

|Evolve Airbox - Euro Headers - Strömung Exhaust - H&R Coils - 19" BBS CH-R|
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST