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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Official: N54 engine with Bi-Turbo 306HP, 400Nm ...



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      02-20-2006, 08:35 PM   #155
greginaz1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
Yep. That's an article about new engine, done by BMW Australia PR department. It's not a text issued by BMW AG.
Article says:

Text & photos courtesy BMW AG

???
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      02-20-2006, 08:50 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greginaz1
Article says:

Text & photos courtesy BMW AG

???
Right & wrong. True: all BMW units are under BMW AG hat, but only what it is published on German Press site is issued directly by BMW AG (and the translations of the original German texts on other press sub-sites). Other news are written by local PR stuff.

The BMW Press Club has seperate sub-sites for different countries / markets: where market specific info can be found (e.g. BMW product novelties in France, or BMW activities in USA, etc).

That specific text WCF has published is located only on BMW Press Australian sub-site, and nowhere else. So its definitely written by local Australian PR personel, not by BMW AG one. There is even a name of a guy in charge for the PR: Alexander Corne | E-Mail: press@bmw.co.au

The most accurate & original info - especially about technical details & corporate info - can be found on BMW Press German site. You can find the English translation (which can be also found on Australian subsite) of original German text (on which Australian article is based) few posts back.

Last edited by EnI; 02-20-2006 at 10:14 PM.
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      02-20-2006, 09:39 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
the idea of turbo lag in a BMW even if it's 0.2 seconds turns me off of this engine, so does the idea of the "turbo" swell of power following a stomp on the gas pedal. what's the point of having such a great handling vehicle if you don't have PRECISE control over it's power. I'm so skeptical, only a test drive will change my mind.

LOL. When BMW makes a statement that this engine has no turbo lag ... I suggest you listen to them. Might want to read about the engine to find out why and all the technology involved. This engine is making history right before your eyes and your "bashing" it..?
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      02-20-2006, 10:14 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
LOL. When BMW makes a statement that this engine has no turbo lag ... I suggest you listen to them. Might want to read about the engine to find out why and all the technology involved. This engine is making history right before your eyes and your "bashing" it..?
how the hell would you or I know how the engine really feels like. i'll believe it when i DRIVE it.
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      02-20-2006, 10:48 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
how the hell would you or I know how the engine really feels like. i'll believe it when i DRIVE it.
I agree, everybody says there turbos don't have lag. I have yet to see one that is completly free of lag...
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      02-21-2006, 07:24 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AW330i
I agree, everybody says there turbos don't have lag. I have yet to see one that is completly free of lag...
There has NEVER been a bi-turbo inline 6 cylinder with High precision direct injection (piezo) ...!

I don't know of any 2 of these in one engine let alone all 4.
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      02-21-2006, 01:08 PM   #161
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I like this thread better, it has better info.
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      02-21-2006, 01:49 PM   #162
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All you guys living in high elevations will love this engine.
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      02-21-2006, 02:11 PM   #163
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Top Gear certainty over Bi-Turbo

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/527/

Bumped across this short article a moment ago, thought I should share it with you folks here. May not always agree with their opinions, but they certainly have the knowledge and only declare releases when they are positive about their facts...
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      02-21-2006, 02:13 PM   #164
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2nd time its posted here

Why do some think there isnt certainty ??

i posted the Official BMW pictures of the engine, and a translated verion of bits of the Official BMW press release on the turbo engine


ITS OFFICIAL EVERYONE
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      02-21-2006, 02:14 PM   #165
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only question is what will the USA get, NA or turbo
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      02-21-2006, 02:16 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
only question is what will the USA get, NA or turbo

You are correct my dear watson !

I'm thinking we ain't gettin no turbo.
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      02-21-2006, 02:18 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom
All you guys living in high elevations will love this engine.
Yup, here at 5,500 feet above sealevel we loose about 20% of a NA engines power
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      02-21-2006, 02:30 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
Yup, here at 5,500 feet above sealevel we loose about 20% of a NA engines power
In contrast those in humid/hot climates will get less out of the turbo engine (heat soak). Which leads to my next question... at what humidity or temperature does a turbo engine begin to show decreased performance? I'm sure every engine design is different but maybe there is a formula or general rule to these things.
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      02-21-2006, 02:45 PM   #169
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It is impossible not have some turbo lag when using straight turbos like the n54 appears to be.

Direct injection and turbo is already being used by Audi/VW on the 2.0 4 cylinder. While I believe the first use in a 6 cylinder is going to be by BMW, the twinning of the two technologies does not break new ground.

Note that Valvetronic appears to be out for the turbo, but could be retained for the north American non-turbo motor if indeed this is the way things will play out.

I HATE turbo lag and swore off turbos because of that. Frankly, IMHO I hope in NA we get a NA engine, same Hp, valvetronic and DI. That engine would rock !!!

Just my opinion of course.
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      02-21-2006, 02:50 PM   #170
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Direct injection does allow them to keep the C/R high so that the motor itself still makes enough low-end torque. Thus, there is no decernable turbo lag. The instant-torque (1000-1500rpms) rating should be on par with a regular 330 N52 motor, which give the turbos enough time to spool up.
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      02-21-2006, 03:04 PM   #171
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You may well be right, but I had the A4 1.8T, supposedly one of the better turbos out there and the darn engine felt sluggish under 2300 rpm. So once bitten twice shy - I am for now skeptical of the turbo.
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      02-21-2006, 03:22 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerista
You may well be right, but I had the A4 1.8T, supposedly one of the better turbos out there and the darn engine felt sluggish under 2300 rpm. So once bitten twice shy - I am for now skeptical of the turbo.
As a 4-banger I would think so. We can only guess at this point.
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      02-21-2006, 03:36 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerista
You may well be right, but I had the A4 1.8T, supposedly one of the better turbos out there and the darn engine felt sluggish under 2300 rpm. So once bitten twice shy - I am for now skeptical of the turbo.

not to doubt that that the 1.8t had turbo-lag, but as u know even NA 4 valve/cyl. engines can be sluggish at low rpm, was it definitely/exclusively turbo-lag that you were feeling as opposed to some component as well of poor low-end torque?
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      02-21-2006, 03:39 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerista
Direct injection and turbo is already being used by Audi/VW on the 2.0 4 cylinder. While I believe the first use in a 6 cylinder is going to be by BMW, the twinning of the two technologies does not break new ground.
True. But Audi's 2.0 TFSI is a single turbo (having one largeer turbine), while N54 engine have two smaller turbines (less inertia - better response).

Also - the torque distribution:
2.0 TFSI (A4 DTM Edition) = 300Nm from 2,200 to 4,000 rpm
N54 = 400Nm from 1,500 to 5,800 rpm

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      02-21-2006, 04:19 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
True. But Audi's 2.0 TFSI is a single turbo (having one largeer turbine), while N54 engine have two smaller turbines (less inertia - better response).

Also - the torque distribution:
2.0 TFSI (A4 DTM Edition) = 300Nm from 2,200 to 4,000 rpm
N54 = 400Nm from 1,500 to 5,800 rpm


your palm pilot must be busting at the seams!
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      02-21-2006, 04:53 PM   #176
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I'm beginning to wonder just how many of you have actually driven a powerful turbo car that lags - let alone have any sort of meaningful track time.

Oh no, lag! Yeah, that's a big problem in an Evo 8 with a 2 liter four pot (which is probably worth no more than 110-120 hp on its own, even at regular compression ratios) and a huge snail that doesn't reach peak boost until 3500 rpm. But this isn't a 2 liter four banger with a slow spooling turbine.

Let me make this VERY clear: EVERY SMALL DISPLACEMENT GASOLINE ENGINE - NATURALLY ASPIRATED OR OTHERWISE - IS GUTLESS BELOW 2000 RPM. The N52 engines in the E90 RIGHT NOW are not diesels or five liter V8s! If you press the throttle at 1000 or 1500 rpm, you're not going anywhere for at least a moment or two - even in first gear. My own M52TU powered car protests any hard throttle inputs below 2000-2500 rpm, and the power doesn't really begin to ramp up until the engine is past 2500 rpm. If you're worried about having no power below 2000-2500 rpm in a fairly small engine (because the turbos haven't spooled), you're a damned fool.

Now, if you're worried about throttle response (though I don't see how you can be talking about throttle response when you're driving a lousy, limp pedaled DBW equipped car in the first place) ABOVE 2000 rpm, then I don't see what the worry is. These turbines will be spooled and making nearly full boost as early as 1500 rpm and will maintain it well through the engine's rev range. I have enough personal experience with small, low inertia turbines to know that you won't even notice that they're there (outside of a faint whistling sound) if you keep the engine in the meat of the powerband. I mean, hell, 1500-5800 rpm - you'd have to be an idiot or the laziest man alive to let the engine fall below that.

If you're going below 1500 or 2000 rpm (except when cruising) on a regular basis and actually expect the engine to do something for you down there, you either need to learn how to drive or buy an American car with an enormous, over-sized pushrod V8. Period.

Look, I have a lot of seat time in 1.8T powered Audis and VWs, as well as various modern turbo Saabs...chipped, unchipped, modified, stock...and I'll be damned if I noticed a bit of lag in any of these cars (and my daily driver is a naturally aspirated I6, NON-DBW, solid mass lightweight flywheel equipped BMW!), so long as I kept the engine in or near the meat of the powerband and wasn't trying to do 5th gear pulls at 25 mph. These engines use single turbines which are even larger than those of the BMW N54. Looking at the technical specs of the N54 and applying a bit of engineering knowledge and personal experience to the equation, I really cannot foresee a situation where power lag will be any sort of issue with this engine.

Last edited by akhbhaat; 02-21-2006 at 05:16 PM.
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