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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Does this.. Procede Can you do this too?



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      12-10-2007, 04:45 PM   #1
rambino
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Dinan Does this.. Procede Can you do this too?

- At high loads for extended periods of time the oil and water temperature ran much to warm. If these were to be left unchecked it could result in damage to the pistons and cylinder walls. To fix this Dinan remapped the water pump to keep temperatures under control.

Can procede do this too?
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      12-10-2007, 04:48 PM   #2
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Sounds interesting, but I can't imagine the ECU is holding back when the coolant temps get above 100 degrees.
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      12-10-2007, 04:48 PM   #3
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good question...
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      12-10-2007, 04:59 PM   #4
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Regardless, the over-heating/limp issue is a problem on stock cars. It should be BMW fixing this, not after-market. Disappointed w BMW on this.
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      12-10-2007, 05:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335lvr View Post
Regardless, the over-heating/limp issue is a problem on stock cars. It should be BMW fixing this, not after-market. Disappointed w BMW on this.

I agree.
I'll bet you right now for 2009 cars we'll see slightly larger oil coolers, larger more efficient water pumps, possibly slightly larger and more efficient FMIC and a few other little changes to make the 335i (and upcoming 135i) run a bit cooler and therefore produce a bit more power for longer periods without limp modes and the cut power that follows.
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      12-10-2007, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambino View Post
- At high loads for extended periods of time the oil and water temperature ran much to warm. If these were to be left unchecked it could result in damage to the pistons and cylinder walls. To fix this Dinan remapped the water pump to keep temperatures under control.

Can procede do this too?
It would certainly would help but i think we are talking 3-5% better cooiling at most. At some point more flow get you just about nothing.

On the track the pump is 100% so kind of not so cool feature and it is just about hype. I'm sure Shiv would have commnet about this also.

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      12-10-2007, 08:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambino View Post
- At high loads for extended periods of time the oil and water temperature ran much to warm. If these were to be left unchecked it could result in damage to the pistons and cylinder walls. To fix this Dinan remapped the water pump to keep temperatures under control.

Can procede do this too?
does it need to?
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      12-10-2007, 08:47 PM   #8
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Define remapped.
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      12-10-2007, 09:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Define remapped.
Your guess is as good as mine. That was a quote from Dinans press release. My guess is that the cooler comes on at lower temps than normal and or stays on for longer periods of time. Of course these are just guesses and I am not sure how the cooler works exactly.

I am sure Dinan would answer these questions...

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      12-10-2007, 09:31 PM   #10
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From the sound of it, it sounds like the water pump speeds change together with boost. Maybe the factory system controls the water pump based on temperature only, but Dinan mapped it to increase together with boost increases.

=====================================
Remapped Water Pump Speeds. In an effort to more effectively control oil and water temperatures, which have been notably excessive even at stock boost pressures, the Dinan software actually increases water pump speeds as boost pressure increases. A much larger, more efficiently ducted oil cooler has also been developed, further improving heat exchange for lower and more consistent operating temperatures, even with the added boost pressure.
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      12-10-2007, 09:35 PM   #11
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I remember when I had dinan's reflash on my E46 M3. M3forum would laugh saying it added zero hp. Now dinan cums out with hp to be added to the 335. Iampro dinan +1 i'm getting my installed. fuck yes!
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      12-10-2007, 09:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I agree.
I'll bet you right now for 2009 cars we'll see slightly larger oil coolers, larger more efficient water pumps, possibly slightly larger and more efficient FMIC and a few other little changes to make the 335i (and upcoming 135i) run a bit cooler and therefore produce a bit more power for longer periods without limp modes and the cut power that follows.
Don't forget, bigger radiator That's what I feel is REALLY needed more than anything else.
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      12-10-2007, 09:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sambonator View Post
Don't forget, bigger radiator That's what I feel is REALLY needed more than anything else.
You'll need a water pump to match it.
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      12-10-2007, 09:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Define remapped.
+1. Sounds like a 1 ounce cure for a 1 pound problem.
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      12-10-2007, 11:05 PM   #15
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Wow, a lot of misconception all over the place here. A bigger RAD will do nothing if you can not reject the heat into it. The cooling system is as good as it weakest link and they all have them. Overdriving a pump that has flow rates close to optimal for a give RAD is simply not going to get you very much more. You will use a lot more power to drive the pump for diminishing return due to efficiency.

Using water wetter or similar product will do more than increasing the pump speed. It actually a very good band aid for those hot spots and that were the focus should be.

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      12-11-2007, 12:54 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
It would certainly would help but i think we are talking 3-5% better cooiling at most. At some point more flow get you just about nothing.

On the track the pump is 100% so kind of not so cool feature and it is just about hype. I'm sure Shiv would have commnet about this also.

Orb
These are my feelings too. I don't think there is much we can do in the software to keep things cool short of reducing power. The water pump is at 100% under full load so I'm not sure how useful it is to drive it harder when less heat is being generated. The only "fix" (or, more appropriately, "band-aid") we could think of and implement into the PROcede is a time-based boost decay under sustained load conditions. The more laps you do, the lower the boost drops. Which should keep things from spiraling downwards. Of course, a higher capacity cooling system would be the ideal fix.

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      12-11-2007, 09:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
You'll need a water pump to match it.
Not necessarily. I don't know the conditions on how the stock pump increases/decreases flow, but on assumption that it's pretty static, a larger (read: more efficient) radiator will remove that much more heat at the same flow.

It would be nice to have a water temp gauge sitting somewhere.

Additionally, I would think that BMW has mapped the pump to provide the maximum cooling ability possible with the setup at a given temp. That said, I seriously don't think that the five or so degrees that might be able to be squeezed out of the system is going to make a difference. Pissing in the ocean comes to mind.
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      12-11-2007, 04:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
These are my feelings too. I don't think there is much we can do in the software to keep things cool short of reducing power. The water pump is at 100% under full load so I'm not sure how useful it is to drive it harder when less heat is being generated.
But, can you please give it a try? Maybe it's worth doing it in the upper gears full boost situation, where increased road speed means increased airflow through the radiator.

I recall that some of the reasons you gave for switching the HW to the Halltech was the availability of more I/O channels - hopefully there is one left currently that could be used for something like this.

Assuming it does something, of course.
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