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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Helix 335i Traps a best of 113.1mph and best ET of 12.8



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      11-06-2007, 06:28 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
is your tune using both boost solenoids?
I'll give you a ride tommorrow lemme know what you think.
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      11-06-2007, 06:57 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
currently we are bypassing a solenoid as the car runs smoothly, perfectly and CODE FREE in the current state. The attache does have a boost control map that we will activate if the current method starts giving us headaches. as far as tuner experience I have been in this game for a LOOOONG time going back to my first turbo car in 1987 a shelby charger glhs. we have been seriously tuning forced induction engine management for well over the last decade including AEM EMS(factory trained),Autronic, Motec,factory engine management systems. piggybacks from a basic AFC to the "standalone like" Attache and simple extra injection controllers such as paxtamap fuelers. we have tuned 100's of cars many of which were hard to do projects like the Helix Mini TurboKompressor. Generally speaking and people that know us from the Audi Realm is that we are usually way ahead of the curve(performance wise) when it comes to modifying a new platform achieving performance levels YEARS before the competition in many cases.

Don't let the craziness here bother you. There are a lot of guys like me that are interested. Code free is critical to me as I do not want a CE on a 45k car starting me down.

From a tuning standpoint, sounds like you have worked on a number of things. I am not sure if you are familiar with Powerhouse Racing out of NM (now I think), but my IS300 was tuned by Jarrett at PHR. I was the beta car for their IS300 kit a few years back. My car was tuned on a Motec M4, made around 550 rwhp and boy I loved that thing. It was sad to let go. I know tuning on Motec is not for everyone, but those that can work with it are normally some of the best around.
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      11-06-2007, 07:19 AM   #47
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so you are bypassing a boost solenoid and doing boost control the old procede/xede way? boo.

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      11-06-2007, 07:29 AM   #48
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so you are bypassing a boost solenoid and doing boost control the old procede/xede way? boo.

as i said we have the full ability to control the solenoids directly and probably will in the future as it is right now we have very stable smooth power delivery with the ability to control how much or how little boost we want in a tuned manner. what problems were others seeing with tuning the boost this way?
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      11-06-2007, 07:41 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
as i said we have the full ability to control the solenoids directly and probably will in the future as it is right now we have very stable smooth power delivery with the ability to control how much or how little boost we want in a tuned manner. what problems were others seeing with tuning the boost this way?
honestly, I was really leaning towards buying this... until I saw the solenoid bypass. Here's why:

its basically a quick glance under the hood to a dead givaway that you have a piggyback installed...

bypassing a solenoid just seems like a step backwards... considering other piggybacks are moving away from this already.

It also has been said to cause the lag, or "surge" of power... some blame limp mode on this method of boost control too... since its not as precise

i never did like the idea of bypassing parts of my cars boost control system to be able to more easily trick it...

if you can directly control the wastegates... by all means... do it. Its the biggest advantage that a procede v2 has right now... since the current xede hardware doesnt have enough i/o's to be able to do it.

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Most of the limp modes were "boost target not reached" and related to the solenoid bypass...
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Originally Posted by stillclaimndp View Post
It's because 1.47 only utilizes one solenoid due to the bypass valve, v2 will bring that back and use the stock, dual solenoid to controll boost and you will see that stock response and linearity you had learned to love before.

I noticed the same thing when i installed 1.47, wasn't very happy about it, then hit 3rd and forgot all about it
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Originally Posted by sambonator View Post
Don't forget to undo the solenoid bypass. Someone forgot to undo theirs before going to the dealer and apparently got their warranty voided.
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Originally Posted by lkraven View Post
With the new version 2 ProCede coming out, looks like we're going to be removing the jumper and putting the tube back onto the solenoid.

This was probably the biggest hassle of the entire install for me, yanking that thing out and then TRYING to get it properly seated on the jumper. I don't know if mine is abnormally tight, but I had to use a lot of force while still trying to be careful not to break tho jumper or rip the tubing or snap off the solenoid nipples.

The question I have is if it would harm anything when we go to put the air tube back on the solenoid / or jumper if we applied even a little water around the outside of the nipple as a lubricant for getting the rubber hose attached.
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      11-06-2007, 08:19 AM   #50
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Please don't use other piggybacks as a baseline to judge ours. Our piggyback has not lag or check engine lights as the boost control is done in a tuned matter. The interesting thing to note here is that even if we decided to control boost directly our analog maps would look the same as we achieved the boost response curve we were after. One thing that you lose when taking over boost is the factory overboost failsafe, which then puts the overboost protection to the throttle body. I don't know nor do I care why other tuners have had issues tuning this car in this manner, all I know is its working perfectly for us as proven by dyno as well as track times. If maintainig a stock look is a concern I'm sure I can maintain that look with some creative vacuum routing.

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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
honestly, I was really leaning towards buying this... until I saw the solenoid bypass. Here's why:

its basically a quick glance under the hood to a dead givaway that you have a piggyback installed...

bypassing a solenoid just seems like a step backwards... considering other piggybacks are moving away from this already.

It also has been said to cause the lag, or "surge" of power... some blame limp mode on this method of boost control too... since its not as precise

i never did like the idea of bypassing parts of my cars boost control system to be able to more easily trick it...

if you can directly control the wastegates... by all means... do it. Its the biggest advantage that a procede v2 has right now... since the current xede hardware doesnt have enough i/o's to be able to do it.
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      11-06-2007, 08:22 AM   #51
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^^^ good post.....thats what I am thinking as well.

edit: referring to 2 posts above
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      11-06-2007, 08:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
Please don't use other piggybacks as a baseline to judge ours. Our piggyback has not lag or check engine lights as the boost control is done in a tuned matter. The interesting thing to note here is that even if we decided to control boost directly our analog maps would look the same as we achieved the boost response curve we were after. One thing that you lose when taking over boost is the factory overboost failsafe, which then puts the overboost protection to the throttle body. I don't know nor do I care why other tuners have had issues tuning this car in this manner, all I know is its working perfectly for us as proven by dyno as well as track times. If maintainig a stock look is a concern I'm sure I can maintain that look with some creative vacuum routing.
what first prompted you to bypass the solenoid? Was it because thats how everyone else did it, or is it seriously something that is common practice in the tuning world? I still dont fully understand how this bypass "helps" things... what exactly is it doing?
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      11-06-2007, 08:46 AM   #53
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what first prompted you to bypass the solenoid? Was it because thats how everyone else did it, or is it seriously something that is common practice in the tuning world? I still dont fully understand how this bypass "helps" things... what exactly is it doing?
we noticed overshooting and erratic boost. Our computer, tuning methodology and wiring are different than others, all I ask is you let our results stand on their own.
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      11-06-2007, 11:20 AM   #54
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Its not a deal breaker for me, but I would prefer if you were able to use both solenoids. If for nothing else (ie. you can get the same spool up as stock, and hit your boost targets), then it would be less of a PITA when putting the car back to stock when bringing it in for mandatory service.
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      11-06-2007, 11:55 AM   #55
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Its not a deal breaker for me, but I would prefer if you were able to use both solenoids. If for nothing else (ie. you can get the same spool up as stock, and hit your boost targets), then it would be less of a PITA when putting the car back to stock when bringing it in for mandatory service.
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so you are bypassing a boost solenoid and doing boost control the old procede/xede way? boo.

C'mon boys, let's be honest now. YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY! Don't get down on the Helix crew for doing something a certain way becuse it works for them and not towards your warranty scheeming. If you tune, and your engine/turbo's go from the tune; WHOOPSI, YOUR BAD! That is not BMW's bad and they aren't responsible for it. Let's be Men/Women now and not children and accept some responsibility.
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      11-06-2007, 11:55 AM   #56
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umm... Helix has built some of the best Mini's in the world and Vishnu has built some of the most unreliable Evo's in the world... i'm pretty sure in a few months time they will have it perfected, and i believe personally that they easily have the capability to one up the Procede... keep in mind they've been at this a matter of weeks where Vishnu has been in the game more than a year at this point.
Unreliable? how ? Can you prove that? What Helix did is remarkable, good price, good results in a short notice time but this is totally unrelated to what Vishnu has been doing. Remember, Vishnu not only works on BMW, he also supports Mitsubishi, Subarus, Porsches etc.

Procede is a more R&D software than the average chip or piggyback in the market. Procede has been tested on Vishnu's car (BMW 335i) and on their own dyno. Vishnu already made huge power a long time ago or you don't recall that. Give yourself sometime to do some research before you talk smack about Vishnu.
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      11-06-2007, 12:01 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
we noticed overshooting and erratic boost. Our computer, tuning methodology and wiring are different than others, all I ask is you let our results stand on their own.
From what I see, you have slower spool up than stock already, and the boost doesnt kick in, even to stock levels, as early as stock... which is what people with "other devices" and the solenoid bypass have complained about

I am sure the car feels great, and is wicked fast... I am just saying that spool up does appeaer to be affected by the solenoid bypass, where the green line dips BELOW the red line

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      11-06-2007, 12:24 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
From what I see, you have slower spool up than stock already, and the boost doesnt kick in, even to stock levels, as early as stock... which is what people with "other devices" and the solenoid bypass have complained about

I am sure the car feels great, and is wicked fast... I am just saying that spool up does appeaer to be affected by the solenoid bypass, where the green line dips BELOW the red line

if youd like me to fill in that small area with boost i can do that with a few changes on my tune maps
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      11-06-2007, 01:09 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
if youd like me to fill in that small area with boost i can do that with a few changes on my tune maps
i would also like to see a dyno run that goes all the way to redline (and on a dynojet for comparison purposes) I am sure I am not alone in wanting to see that...

great work by the way... and thanks for being upfront and honest with your responses...
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      11-06-2007, 01:21 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archibald Donnington View Post
C'mon boys, let's be honest now. YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY! Don't get down on the Helix crew for doing something a certain way becuse it works for them and not towards your warranty scheeming. If you tune, and your engine/turbo's go from the tune; WHOOPSI, YOUR BAD! That is not BMW's bad and they aren't responsible for it. Let's be Men/Women now and not children and accept some responsibility.
aaron
I already have a lot of experience with paying to play so i'm not one of those people who looks at their warranty as the holy grail so the lecture isn't needed here. I'm just saying that if they have the ability to use both boost solenoids, then why bypass one? Maybe its something worth pursuing.
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      11-06-2007, 01:50 PM   #61
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I already have a lot of experience with paying to play so i'm not one of those people who looks at their warranty as the holy grail so the lecture is needed here. I'm just saying that if they have the ability to use both boost solenoids, then why bypass one? Maybe its something worth pursuing.
+1. I guess my question would be, if the boost solenoids provide no benefit, why would BMW have put them in the boost control loop? And generally speaking, the less intrusive you can make your solution while still achieving your target, the better.

I'm very impressed with what Helix has done in such a short time, but I am curious about this solenoid bypass.
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      11-06-2007, 02:58 PM   #62
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i would also like to see a dyno run that goes all the way to redline (and on a dynojet for comparison purposes) I am sure I am not alone in wanting to see that...

great work by the way... and thanks for being upfront and honest with your responses...
+1..I think most of us want to see that..
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      12-11-2007, 05:59 PM   #63
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