E90Post
 


VIBE Motorsports
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion > One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge!!!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-02-2008, 07:58 AM   #23
Neurorad
Major
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Drives: 330xi 6MT Blk/Blk SP
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location, Location

Posts: 1,212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstClass View Post
That proves what exactly? One problem that all you people do (by you people I mean Darwin lovers) is assume intelligent design = God. That's not true. I personally believe in God but from a scientific standpoint it could have just as easily been the black monolith or some other highly advance alien race/technology that created life on this planet.

Evolution can be tested? How?

Same argument in reverse. Yeah those seem weird, so why the hell would things evolve like that?
Dude, evolution is a fact, not a theory.
Neurorad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 09:33 AM   #24
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,350
iTrader: (0)

FirstClass,

I agree with your points, you seem quite a logical person. The whole thing is that evolution was just a THEORY that Darwin even admitted had problems. The main problem is the very first living cell. It's origin can never be explained because even today we have never seen life just come into existance without a CAUSE.

Also, I think it's pretty fair to bet that the universe wasnt always around. Steven Hawking has went into this at great length. Simple observations agree with this aswell such as the expansion of the universe. We can trace it back to a point i.e the Big Bang. Although admittedly we dont know everything about this Big Bang.

Another point. I think dr325i said that the "goldilocks zone" just developed over time. I strongly disagree with this idea. We can forget about the Earth developing over time to make conditions for life, because some of these intricate balances existed even before the Earth! Consider the rate of expansion of the universe when it first came into existance. If it was increased by 1 part in a billion billion then the universe would collapse before it reached its present size OR splatter out in every direction never to be united again.

Look how sensitive the balance is. You must see that it cannot just be an accident. These balances also continued into every aspect of plants, animals, humans and even the earth. No way is this an accident. Infact it makes it very reasonable to believe that there could be an intelligent design or at least some infinite force that cause the Big Bang to happen.
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 09:35 AM   #25
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,350
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Dude, evolution is a fact, not a theory.
From nothing comes nothing, so how did the first living cell come into existance? these are such old beliefs. People used to think that rotting flesh turns into living maggots if you leave it to rot for a while...
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 10:02 AM   #26
dr335is
Brigadier General
 
Drives: GTI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,973
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
From nothing comes nothing, so how did the first living cell come into existance? these are such old beliefs. People used to think that rotting flesh turns into living maggots if you leave it to rot for a while...
and "new" beliefs are...??? Gods?
It is simple -- can't explain something -- therefore assume Gods created it. That worked in 8th century, not today. Today we strive to prove things, not assume. You assume without any proof, and by assuming it you don't even want to try to reason.

Do you think we're the only living organisms in the universe? In the Solar System? Do you still think Earth is flat and in the center of Universe (as church was teaching your grand grand grand grand fathers??? But then, it was PROVEN by science to be opposite...
dr335is is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 11:07 AM   #27
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,350
iTrader: (0)

Firstly, why am I making assumptions? The Quran was revealed 1400 years ago giving claims that there is a God, and giving many miracles throughout the text.

With all of our technology and advancement we havent been able to disprove the Quran, instead there is more evidence that what it is saying is true. The Quran speaks of the perfect balances throughout the universe and today we are still discovering these balances.

I dont know if we are the only living organisms in the universe, but that doesnt change anything. What does that matter if Allah created us and other forms of life? To me, I still believe that he has given us clear commandments to follow.

In regards to the flat earth, the Quran actually spoke of the Earth being the shape of an Ostrich egg which is 100% accurate. The Quran also gives details about the orbits of the earth, sun & moon etc. It even tells us that the moon's light is reflected and not it's own.
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 11:10 AM   #28
Neurorad
Major
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Drives: 330xi 6MT Blk/Blk SP
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location, Location

Posts: 1,212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
From nothing comes nothing, so how did the first living cell come into existance? these are such old beliefs. People used to think that rotting flesh turns into living maggots if you leave it to rot for a while...
Exactly. The maggots weren't put there by god, they figured it out with logic.

Cells evolved from simple chemical reactions originally, probably starting with something like simple self-replicating RNA. More stable compounds were naturally selected as time progressed. Structures became more complex due to evolution - it's absolutely expected that with time, self-replicating molecules, like living organisms (plants, animals) become more complex, due to selection.

Quite a simple concept, really. It's absolutely expected that systems become more complex through evolution, explaining the intricacy of current highly-evolved animals. It's not just expected, it's a universal truth.

"Give a monkey a brain, and he'll swear he's the center of the universe." -Fishbone

'Miracle of Birth Occurs for 83 Billionth Time', from The Onion:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._occurs_for_83
Neurorad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 11:21 AM   #29
hks786
Major General
 
Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 5,350
iTrader: (0)

Logic? great logic that is. They concluded that the maggots just evolved from rotting flesh. However, one day that would have been a fair assumption to make with our limited knowledge.

Regarding the first living cell, there are many gaps in that research and nothing is 100%. Moreover, it still leads to the same thing. From nothing comes nothing. The cause of the first cell would also need a CAUSE etc. We're also pretty certain that the universe hasnt always been there, so believing that the Big Bang wasnt just an accident might not be such a bad idea after all
__________________
hks786 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 11:33 AM   #30
UncleWede
Long Time Admirer, First Time Owner
 
UncleWede's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i Arctic
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oxnard, CA

Posts: 2,315
iTrader: (0)

Doesn't teh fact that simple things evolve into more complex go against teh law of entropy? The universe has been discovered to be lazy, so what is the driving force that makes cells more complex?

And I thought Ihad seen YEARS ago that scientists were able to form the RNA with some of the basic elements that existed, and a few bolts of lightning.

Now I'm really confused, which side am I on???
UncleWede is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-02-2008, 12:56 PM   #31
Neurorad
Major
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Drives: 330xi 6MT Blk/Blk SP
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location, Location

Posts: 1,212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Logic? great logic that is. They concluded that the maggots just evolved from rotting flesh.
They/we logically concluded that the maggots arose from larvae, and did not arise through magic.

I should not have used the term 'entropy' to describe disorder. Populations of organisms become more 'ordered' through natural selection. The term 'entropy' should only be used for a closed system (and the process of living is not a closed system).

Moving from relative disorder (simple organism) to more order (more complex organism) is the result of natural selection.

I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I do understand facts and logic. My ability to reason is not clouded by 'faith'.
Neurorad is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST