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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Dinan Flash License Agreement



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      01-03-2008, 04:43 AM   #1
elguevon
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Dinan Flash License Agreement

As comical as this may sound, I have to ask.

When you plunk down the $2000 for the Dinan flash, should you not have the right to have it remove/re-add to your vehicle as often as you wish (so long as you pay the labor fee)? Going a step further, if you bought another 335 (i.e. trade my 2007 for a 2008), one could argue that you should be able to transfer it to this new vehicle so long as the flash was removed from the old one.

Since this is really software we are talking about, I use the analogy of buying a new computer. Under most software license agreements, you can install the existing software from the old computer onto the new computer so long as you remove it from the old one. Yeah I know I oversimplified that, but you see what I mean.

I bring this up because I have concerns about the how well the vehicle would handle in a winter climate given the extra power/torque. I thought MAYBE if it is too dangerous, I could get the flash installed in the spring and have it removed when winter starts...and repeat year over year.

Today I spoke with my local dealer who mentioned that once its flashed, it can be removed but that is it. NO re-installs. Seems like BS to me....if I'm paying $2k for, in essence, software then it should be mine to utilize as I see fit. No I don't mean having the actual flash install (although..hmmm), but rather be able to reinstall as often as I request so long as I pay for the labor to do so.

Yeah I get this isn't something that you would do on a weekly basis, but annually due to my snow/ice concerns doesn't seem that unreasonable. Maybe the car handles just fine in a winter climate and I never have to worry about this...but I don't like the idea of the 1 and done deal.

Are you presented with some sort of license agreement at the time of install?

Other thoughts?
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      01-03-2008, 05:00 AM   #2
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don't press the gas pedal so hard in the winter. problem solved.
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      01-03-2008, 06:10 AM   #3
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Do you have to sign some licensing agreement at the time of purchase/install? If not, check with Dinan and see if they have one for you to review.

BTW, I bet imolazhp ci has the answer for world peace too.
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      01-03-2008, 06:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Do you have to sign some licensing agreement at the time of purchase/install? If not, check with Dinan and see if they have one for you to review.

BTW, I bet imolazhp ci has the answer for world peace too.
i have a few ideas, however, that's for a different time and place and i would imagine my ideas would be met by a vastly hostile group of respondents.
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      01-03-2008, 07:14 AM   #5
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Well, I used to have APR software on my '01 S4, and I would switch it into stock mode during the upper state new york winters. didn't need all of the extra power of chipped 94 octane mode while trying to deal with icy roads, snow mounds 8 feet tall (yes, last winter 13 feet in 4 days), bad visibility, and everything else.

So, I agree with your desire. I had the same one, and choose my S4's software accordingly.
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      01-03-2008, 07:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post
i have a few ideas, however, that's for a different time and place and i would imagine my ideas would be met by a vastly hostile group of respondents.
Haha, maybe you could start with universal peace on e90post.

Last edited by lawdude; 01-03-2008 at 08:04 AM.
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      01-03-2008, 07:29 AM   #7
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You bring up an interesting point. For the money I don;t see why you shouldn't be able to transfer the flash from one car to another. You could with any other tuning solution currently.

It would be nice to have it setup like APR software. Where you can cycle through several maps without actually reflashing anything.

As far as worrying about the power in the winter. Don't. You've still got DSC and a throttle not an on/off switch.
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      01-03-2008, 11:53 AM   #8
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This is a good point. Can someone scan their Dinan agreement, or whatever they give you? I don't think they can legally keep you from the software you purchased. What I think they can do, and obviously do practice, is refusing the service of transferring your flash. Since that is a service, and not the actual product, they have a right of refusal.

If you can figure out how to "download" the software and reflash it yourself, I don't think they can stop you from doing that.
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      01-03-2008, 12:01 PM   #9
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With computer software, the OP's statement is not entirely true.

When I had my old Norton Int. Sec. 2007, the licensing agreement said you could install it 5 times. My original PC crapped out, so I built a new one. What they don't tell you up front is that your new installation is considered "1" of the 5 total installations.

I would think that Dinan would only allow "1 installation," but I may be wrong.
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      01-03-2008, 12:20 PM   #10
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a piggyback is your answer :P
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      01-03-2008, 12:42 PM   #11
elguevon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by san~man View Post
With computer software, the OP's statement is not entirely true.
Actually my statement is entirely true...see my highlighted portions of my inital post:

"Under most software license agreements, you can install the existing software from the old computer onto the new computer so long as you remove it from the old one. Yeah I know I oversimplified that, but you see what I mean."

I was merely trying to bring up a simple example, not meant to be all encompassing.

So, does a Dinan Software License actually exists...better yet...are you presented with it and have to agree with it at the time of install?
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      01-03-2008, 12:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elguevon View Post
Actually my statement is entirely true...see my highlighted portions of my inital post:

"Under most software license agreements, you can install the existing software from the old computer onto the new computer so long as you remove it from the old one. Yeah I know I oversimplified that, but you see what I mean."

I was merely trying to bring up a simple example, not meant to be all encompassing.

So, does a Dinan Software License actually exists...better yet...are you presented with it and have to agree with it at the time of install?
I did not receive a licensing agreement, however that is not say one doesn't exist, in which case, the UCC and UCITA would most likely apply.
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      01-03-2008, 03:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyg View Post
I did not receive a licensing agreement, however that is not say one doesn't exists, in which the UCC would most likely apply.
Which PART?
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      01-03-2008, 04:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Which PART?
Check Art 2 UCC and UCITA (Uniform Computer Information Transaction Act) sections 501 and 502 to start. UCITA is a model act that must be adopted on a state-by-state basis. However, only Virginia and Maryland have enacted UCITA, because its provisions tend to favor vendors to the detriment of most end-users. Other states have enacted “bomb-shelter” legislation, which prevents licenses agreements from applying the law of those states that have enacted the UCITA, even in transactions where no party is located in a UCITA state. UCITA governs ownership of the copies of software licenses. Generally, the terms of the license agreement governs (1) the ownership of title to a copy of the software and (2) the licensee’s right to possession and control of the copy.

Of course state law must be considered, however, generally computer software is considered to fall within the definition of "goods" for UCC purposes.
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      01-03-2008, 07:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyg View Post
Check Art 2 UCC and UCITA (Uniform Computer Information Transaction Act) sections 501 and 502 to start. UCITA is a model act that must be adopted on a state-by-state basis. However, only Virginia and Maryland have enacted UCITA, because its provisions tend to favor vendors to the detriment of most end-users. Other states have enacted “bomb-shelter” legislation, which prevents licenses agreements from applying the law of those states that have enacted the UCITA, even in transactions where no party is located in a UCITA state. UCITA governs ownership of the copies of software licenses. Generally, the terms of the license agreement governs (1) the ownership of title to a copy of the software and (2) the licensee’s right to possession and control of the copy.

Of course state law must be considered, however, generally computer software is considered to fall within the definition of "goods" for UCC purposes.

Haha, that sounds like technical lawyer stuff. I don't have Dinan's software so I'm not really interested. Maybe you could explain to the OP how all that "UCITA-goods-license-bombshelter" language applies to his situation.

I'll stand on the sidelines as you procede to explain technical.
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      01-03-2008, 07:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Haha, that sounds like technical lawyer stuff. I don't have Dinan's software so I'm not really interested. Maybe you could explain to the OP how all that "UCITA-goods-license-bombshelter" language applies to his situation.

I'll stand on the sidelines as you procede to explain technical.
I requested a license agreement.
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      01-09-2008, 08:40 AM   #17
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In winter: Press lightly on the gas pedal, get a LSD and some winter tires..
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      01-11-2008, 09:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becksgold View Post
In winter: Press lightly on the gas pedal, get a LSD and some winter tires..
Quite original azzface.
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      01-11-2008, 10:34 PM   #19
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Quite original azzface.
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      01-12-2008, 12:02 AM   #20
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I believe you can reinstall it only on the car with the VIN that it was originally installed on. So if you have it installed on car with vin#1, you cannot buy car with vin#2 and get it installed. Imagine if you had more than one 335i in the family and said "oh yea I traded it in for this one today, so I need the flash again". Dinan would have to do some more leg work to verify this, etc. Also, what I understand to be true, if BMW flashes the ECU for service or a software update, then the Dinan flash can be reapplied at the cost of labor. So it isn't a free install, but it won't cost you $2000 every time you have your software updated/ECU flashed.
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