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      02-14-2008, 10:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
you can always stick a tuning box on, they WILL work. Not as good as a re-map but never the less if no re-map is available this is the only option.


Carlos
Why is it a tuning box wonīt work as good as a remap? Is it less reliable?
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      02-14-2008, 12:19 PM   #24
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Why is it a tuning box wonīt work as good as a remap? Is it less reliable?

It will work, but its in my opinion not the best way of tuning. It tricks the ECU into thinking the fuel pump is not working as efficiently as it could and turns up the fuel pressure. This will give you more HP and also a potentially ticking time bomb with the Fuel pump. Long term issues i am unsure, maybe borewash due to increase fuel flow from the tuning box.


A re-map is programmed thoughout the rev range under different loads makign sure the cars is running its correct amount of fuel for the conditions.
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      02-14-2008, 12:48 PM   #25
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Carl

You can't get borewash with diesel fuel, it's got far too much lubrication properties unlike petrol. Remember all the stories about petrol knackering diesel fuel pumps.

Regards

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      02-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #26
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Oh right, im sorry.. Remember i used to petrol turbo engines, old skool ones at that.

Surely the over-fueling the diesel lump will also lead to premature catalsyst failure etc?
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      02-14-2008, 01:22 PM   #27
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What you have to remember Carl is diesel engines are limited by the amount of fuel they can consume whereas petrol engines are limited by the amount of air they can consume. Putting more fuel into a diesel (by one means or another) is the only way to make more power.

Youv'e obviously never seen a diesel running on it's sump oil, scarry stuff!

The particle filters and catylysts will be rated to operate over a range. If you subject it to conditions outside of it's design parameters then there will be the possibility of premature failure as with all things.

Regards

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      02-14-2008, 02:30 PM   #28
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Is this a plug and play box where you can install the chip by yourself in 5 minutes without any ECU/Software update etc. ?
plug and play in 10 mins

il give a more in depth reviwe when it arrives should have been today but it dint come, should be tomoz or sat.

The one i stated is from the company who tuned the Astra 888 and T9
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      02-14-2008, 03:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
It will work, but its in my opinion not the best way of tuning. It tricks the ECU into thinking the fuel pump is not working as efficiently as it could and turns up the fuel pressure. This will give you more HP and also a potentially ticking time bomb with the Fuel pump. Long term issues i am unsure, maybe borewash due to increase fuel flow from the tuning box.


A re-map is programmed thoughout the rev range under different loads makign sure the cars is running its correct amount of fuel for the conditions.
Thanks!
So a remap is a more correct way of tuning an engine right? The only advantages with a box is that you can unplug it before taking the car to service and that you donīt run the risk of the extra power being wiped out if the ECU should be reprogrammed?
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      02-14-2008, 04:12 PM   #30
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all this talk of remapping and tuning is definitely very interesting! But I fear that there may be the same issues with re-mapping a 325i (arriving March) as a 320i, i.e. not significant performance increase for the price!

What are the other physical ways of tuning the car? Like a air intakes (Gruppe M), or exhausts? It seems that this 'physical' tuning is much more popular in the US.

What would everyone recommend, besides software modifications??


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      02-14-2008, 04:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
It will work, but its in my opinion not the best way of tuning. It tricks the ECU into thinking the fuel pump is not working as efficiently as it could and turns up the fuel pressure. This will give you more HP and also a potentially ticking time bomb with the Fuel pump. Long term issues i am unsure, maybe borewash due to increase fuel flow from the tuning box.


A re-map is programmed thoughout the rev range under different loads makign sure the cars is running its correct amount of fuel for the conditions.

As far as I can make out, a tuning box can only alter the amount of fuel and the timing of the fuel injection. Unlike a remap, it cannot change the fuel pressure. So from your thoughts Carlosmatey, the remap is going to give the ticking time bomb with the fuel pump.

Tuning box cannot do this.

As for over fueling, both methods increase the fuel at given times to achieve the extra HP.


Unless someone knows different......


Sh*t. Late for another appointment. Watch has stopped ticking.
OMG. Where IS that ticking sound coming from?


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      02-14-2008, 05:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
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plug and play in 10 mins

il give a more in depth reviwe when it arrives should have been today but it dint come, should be tomoz or sat.

The one i stated is from the company who tuned the Astra 888 and T9
Hi,

Pls. keep me updated. We have the same car and I am very interested in a tuning box for an easy installation and uninstallation before service etc.
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      02-15-2008, 01:27 PM   #33
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I've tried a Tunit.

It takes a while longer than 10mins to fit though. More like 20-30. Some pesky engine cover retaining screws are in an awkward position.

Results are well worth the effort, and completely removeable when you want to. Unlike a remap.
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      02-15-2008, 03:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanana View Post
As far as I can make out, a tuning box can only alter the amount of fuel and the timing of the fuel injection. Unlike a remap, it cannot change the fuel pressure. So from your thoughts Carlosmatey, the remap is going to give the ticking time bomb with the fuel pump.

Tuning box cannot do this.

As for over fueling, both methods increase the fuel at given times to achieve the extra HP.


Unless someone knows different......


Sh*t. Late for another appointment. Watch has stopped ticking.
OMG. Where IS that ticking sound coming from?


A tuning box works in only one way. It plugs in between the fuel rail and fuel rail pressure sensor. It then fools the signal back to the main injection pump that the pump is running at a low pressure so pushes the pump pressure up. This injects more fuel, simple. It cannot adjust injection timing, turbo pressure, torque limiters, top speed limiter ect ect.

It can shorten the life of the pump due to the higher pressure and the injectors can fail due to the higher pressure at the back on the injectors. A remap, depending who written the mapping does NOT increase fuel rail pressure, more fuel is injected by opening the injectors longer and more advance on the injection timing.

Hope that helps
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      02-15-2008, 07:29 PM   #35
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It's obviously not a simple subject.

Looking at this link, they explicitly state the box does not increase pressure.

http://www.tuningbox.com/ANG/p4ang.php

There's a lot of processing goes on in a tuning box. Hence the 'high' cost.

There's a lot it can't do, as you say, turbo pressure, torque limiters, top speed limiter....

But, I can understand that intercepting the pressure signal can have an effect on the injection time, if the signal feedback is not [just] changed in amplitude, but time displaced. Yes, it's fooling the ecu.

However, if it were just effectively reducing the signal, would it cost Ģ300+.
Probably not.

Details on how it works seem a bit vague but, lets see what else turns up.....
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      02-16-2008, 05:21 AM   #36
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Id like to see one on a 335d.
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      02-16-2008, 06:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBanana View Post
It's obviously not a simple subject.

Looking at this link, they explicitly state the box does not increase pressure.

http://www.tuningbox.com/ANG/p4ang.php

There's a lot of processing goes on in a tuning box. Hence the 'high' cost.

There's a lot it can't do, as you say, turbo pressure, torque limiters, top speed limiter....

But, I can understand that intercepting the pressure signal can have an effect on the injection time, if the signal feedback is not [just] changed in amplitude, but time displaced. Yes, it's fooling the ecu.

However, if it were just effectively reducing the signal, would it cost Ģ300+.
Probably not.

Details on how it works seem a bit vague but, lets see what else turns up.....
The statement on Tuningbox website is not very clear. A tuning box cannot extend opening times of the injectors as the tuning box does not connect to the injectors. It connects to the fuel rail pressure sensor, a sensor that purely monitors fuel rail pressure and feeds the rail pressure back to the ECU to monitor. The fuel raise pressure is set by the ECU mapping and monitered by the fuel rail pressure sensor, if the two dont match then the engine will go into limp mode to protect the engine, ie fuel leak, blown injector. The tuning box fools these values and pushes the pump pressure up. The clever part in the tuning box is to keep the actual pressure and required pressure the same.

The link below is a picture of the fuel rail and components on a 335d, item 3 is where the tunit box connects into, fuel rail pressure sensor.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...50&hg=13&fg=15
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      02-19-2008, 05:21 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDG 40 View Post
plug and play in 10 mins

il give a more in depth reviwe when it arrives should have been today but it dint come, should be tomoz or sat.

The one i stated is from the company who tuned the Astra 888 and T9
Hi !

Have you recieved your tuningbox and tested it ? I am very curious about how it works ?
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      02-20-2008, 06:16 AM   #39
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Yeah tell us when you have tested the box.

Itīs interesting that they claim to get 218 horsepower when tuned. Most of the tuners that have a box for the 177-machine gives around 205-207 hp. I would like to see a dynotest from them.
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      05-13-2008, 03:33 AM   #40
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Hey guys!

I bought a P-tronic tuning box for my 320d. It should arrive in 2 or 3 days.
They say that the power will increase from 177 bhp to 226 bhp, while the torque will go up from 350 to about 460 Nm.

(to be honest, i wish that the power/torque increase isn't going to be that great because I'm afraid for the clutch, gear box etc. - 215 bhp with 420 is ok by me)

I'll give you details, after i install the box.

Cheers,

Vlad
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      05-13-2008, 03:57 PM   #41
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Thought I would give you an update on the 177bhp 320d.

We did a remap on these last week in Germany, software reads fine via the diagnostic port and writes back into the car fine and the car runs with good power gains

Still a long way to go much much more long term testing on the ECU.

Next is to protect our work which is going to be much harder, if we cant then I doubt we will release it
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      05-14-2008, 07:57 AM   #42
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Keep up the good work, and good luck
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      05-14-2008, 08:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
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Thought I would give you an update on the 177bhp 320d.

We did a remap on these last week in Germany, software reads fine via the diagnostic port and writes back into the car fine and the car runs with good power gains

Still a long way to go much much more long term testing on the ECU.

Next is to protect our work which is going to be much harder, if we cant then I doubt we will release it

Nice one mate!!

Give me a nod if you want a guinea pig whom you can trust and who won't cry if things go wrong.
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      05-14-2008, 02:38 PM   #44
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Nice one mate!!

Give me a nod if you want a guinea pig whom you can trust and who won't cry if things go wrong.
I will do but its a long way off and still a lot of testing needs to be done on the ECU
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