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      03-31-2008, 12:04 PM   #1
ShereKhan
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Blue smoke?

As a lot of you know i've had the dodgy idling problem. In the last week or so i've noticed blue smoke now appearing at the exhaust with the exhaust rattling on start up.

I've been fobbed off by BMW UK customer services that my idling fault is meant to happen as idles rough - They say its a performance engine so supposed to behave this way -

They have refused point blank to offer any recompense as apparently my warranty is recompense!!!

They don't seem to understand that the idling fault is only at start up.

And my car has supposedly been inspected independently by BMW (I have no idea how its supposed to be independent??)

I'm fed up with my lease company and my fleet manager is useless (I've had to contact the fleet director (her manager's manager) to get any information.

I actually want the engine to blow up so I can tell them I told you so!

Your comments please.
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      03-31-2008, 12:24 PM   #2
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Just go to a massive car park, run the engine dry of oil and do a doughnut, it will die quick enough then.

If blue smoke is being emmited then oil is being burnt mate.

Good luck sorting it!
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      03-31-2008, 02:21 PM   #3
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Blue smoke is NOT a good sign. Do you smell the unmistakeable odor of burning lubricating oil?
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      03-31-2008, 02:46 PM   #4
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I`m sure we could squeeze 1 more onto the `ring trip. Afterall it is a "performance" engine, so it should`nt mind a little "workout" now and again.


.....and if the worst happened it would be fixed by a far more efficient German dealership.
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      03-31-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
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DXB

The only problem with doing that is that I am liable if there is oil starvation. It's one of my employer's get out clause - So I always check regularly.

SoYank

It smells quite bad at start up - not sure if its oil or unburnt VPower being dumped. Looking at the charcoal black exhaust I think the fuel mixture isn't right. Some time ago I had a spark service and noticed a huge increase in performance. I'm tempted to check the sparks myself to see if they are fouling.

Mikem,

I have thought about taking it to Germany again.

I've got to go to Germany on business next month - I did think of wangling the drive across by pretending I don't like flying - but then I realise I flew not so long ago!

It would be good if the engine did die - As I could tell BMW told you so there was a fault! - And I could point out that they should have picked it up nearly 12mths ago!
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      03-31-2008, 05:07 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mikem View Post
I`m sure we could squeeze 1 more onto the `ring trip. Afterall it is a "performance" engine, so it should`nt mind a little "workout" now and again.


.....and if the worst happened it would be fixed by a far more efficient German dealership.
Or I get towed back by BMW ASSIST back to blighty as my lease company wants the car!!
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      03-31-2008, 06:43 PM   #7
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Juts go park in up at your local stealer next to another one the same and leave over night to get cold - next day rock up and ask for the keys for the 'other one' the same as yours and get em to fire it up - listen to how it runs and then get em to start yours up to compare.. they can't BS their way out of this test when the results are different. Tell em to go fix it..
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      04-01-2008, 05:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 335DJim View Post
Juts go park in up at your local stealer next to another one the same and leave over night to get cold - next day rock up and ask for the keys for the 'other one' the same as yours and get em to fire it up - listen to how it runs and then get em to start yours up to compare.. they can't BS their way out of this test when the results are different. Tell em to go fix it..
The only problem with that Jim is that the dealer doesn't have another one of my type. The two local stealers each have two other Si's visiting.

It has given me an idea though!

If I find on Autotrader at a BMW garage and do as you said maybe that may show BMW what the problem is!
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      04-01-2008, 06:24 AM   #9
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Is the smoke evident just on start-up?
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      04-01-2008, 06:58 AM   #10
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As far as I know - I don't tend to look out for smoke in my rear view.

I have seen older cars smoke blue all the time. I know that means the engine has seen its days.
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      04-01-2008, 07:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShereKhan View Post
I don't tend to look out for smoke in my rear view

Well maybe you should, then when you post a topic like this you might get more help
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      04-01-2008, 07:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShereKhan View Post
As far as I know - I don't tend to look out for smoke in my rear view.

I have seen older cars smoke blue all the time. I know that means the engine has seen its days.
If it smokes on start up but not under load then it could be the valve stem seals.

If it smokes under load aswell then a ring may be on its way out!
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      04-01-2008, 07:23 AM   #13
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Blue smoke= possible blown head gasket

Good luck!
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      04-01-2008, 07:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotan Braskey View Post
Blue smoke= possible blown head gasket

Good luck!
I think you will find, blue smoke is oil being burned my friend, head gasket failure smoke is white due to water being burned.
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      04-01-2008, 07:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
I think you will find, blue smoke is oil being burned my friend, head gasket failure smoke is white due to water being burned.
Water being burned is steam
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      04-01-2008, 08:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepy coupe View Post
Water being burned is steam
Ok water and coolant then,

HG usually means white smoke ( water/coolant burning)
Piston ring or bore wear usually means blue smoke (oil burning)
Over fueling or incorrect fueling usually means black smoke (excess fuel burning)


Carlos
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      04-01-2008, 01:08 PM   #17
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I've had HG problems on an old Rover some years ago so I know what happens with that.

Creepy I was taking the proverbial by saying I didn't look out the rear.
There is definately no blue smoke when driving around - only dust

So what happens when the valve seals fail - I'm asking as I want to prepare myself for it (e.g. if i'm in the outside lane of a M-way at the time).

Would I lose the engine - or a cylinder or something else?
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      04-01-2008, 01:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShereKhan View Post
I've had HG problems on an old Rover some years ago so I know what happens with that.

Creepy I was taking the proverbial by saying I didn't look out the rear.
There is definately no blue smoke when driving around - only dust

So what happens when the valve seals fail - I'm asking as I want to prepare myself for it (e.g. if i'm in the outside lane of a M-way at the time).

Would I lose the engine - or a cylinder or something else?
I doubt they would fall into the engine, it would just smoke some more and may run a little rough!
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      04-01-2008, 01:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShereKhan View Post

So what happens when the valve seals fail - I'm asking as I want to prepare myself for it (e.g. if i'm in the outside lane of a M-way at the time).

Would I lose the engine - or a cylinder or something else?
It is just a seal that wraps around the valve stem and prevents oil getting into the valve guide - and then combustion chamber.

Depending on how the cylinder head is built, with loose valve stem oil seals, oil will tend to pool in the head and then slowly leak into your combustion chamber down the valve stem. This will be especially noticeable at start up if you have been standing for some time. The puff of smoke at start up is the burning off of this oil on your valves and in the combustion chamber.

There will be no immediate danger, but excessive build up will see the valve itself building up deposits, restricting flow or preventing good sealing. (I have worked on some old Cortinas in the 80s where they were so coked up they almost cut off the air flow completely - better oils and fuels don't do this any more) More a case of over lubricating, than lack of lubricating.

On some engines it is possible to change the valve stem oil seals without major work. Usually with a special tool to lever the valve spring down. All dependent on engine.

D.
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      04-02-2008, 02:04 AM   #20
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Dave thank you for the explaination.

I am wondering if the valve clearance service could have caused the current issue? As some valve shims were replaced by stealer.

If they haven't done this service before. Then there is potential for cock up. Especially when they were suprised to see the item as a service.

Can someone point me to a picture of an example of this seal and how it fits into or onto a valve shim?
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      04-02-2008, 04:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShereKhan View Post
Dave thank you for the explaination.

I am wondering if the valve clearance service could have caused the current issue? As some valve shims were replaced by stealer.

If they haven't done this service before. Then there is potential for cock up. Especially when they were suprised to see the item as a service.

Can someone point me to a picture of an example of this seal and how it fits into or onto a valve shim?

I'm not conversant with this exact engine. But shims are usually solid adjusters in a range of set sizes that fit into the valve rocker assembly - rather than having screw adjustment for setting the gap. By their very nature they will probably fit on top of the valve stem (I presume - could be on the other end of the rocker too, depending on valve train geometry).

Either way it would necessitate the releasing of the pressure on the valve to remove and install a different shim. This process could indeed nick a valve stem oil seal - if, for instance the valve was pressed down too far and the valve spring bound and nicked the valve stem oil seal, or the compressing tool or any screwdriver slipped when levering one out.

More worrying is if this was performed without taking due diligence to the piston position when compressing a valve (obviously you want the piston at the bottom of its stroke before extending a valve). The engine would need to be cranked around as you move from cylinder to cylinder. I say this as most modern engines have very little to no clearance between piston top dead centre and when a valve is fully open. A nicked or bent valve would give a poor seal and a rough low speed idle.

The above is all PURELY conjecture as I don't know this engine. I could only be fuelling your worrys. So take it with a pinch of salt - perhaps someone more familiar with this unit can offer their opinion.

D.
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      04-02-2008, 05:46 AM   #22
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If the shim is on top of the valve stem, then the bucket (follower)would need to be removed to repalce it as it will sit under the bucket and cams would have to come out, if it uses a biscuite shim arrangment (which sit on the top of the bucket) then as Dave said this could be changed with cams in place with the decribed depression tool.

If this diagrame is accurate,then it has rockers, so shims would be replaced with little depression to the valve spring

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...41&hg=11&fg=25
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