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      04-01-2008, 02:53 PM   #1
DrNeutron
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Looking to buy... confused over engine to pick

Hi,

I've been reading your fine board for a while and need some advice. I'm looking to get a used E91 in the next few months. I'm stuck on engine choice which is hampering purchase plans as I can't decide.

We do 26,000 miles a year so economy has to be taken into account. Current car is a 190hp Celica (get 32mpg). Normal commute is 35miles round trip on congestion free M-Way and we travel loads up to the highlands which is a joy in the Celica .

Options are :-

(1) Get a 320d 163hp model pre ED and save some money.
(2) Wait and try to pick up a 320d ED 177hp car in a month or two.
(3) Buy a slightly older 325d/330d

What I need to know is,

- Is a EffDyn's car really 10mpg better then the old engine in real life.

- Can you get 50mpg out of a 325/330 on a run (forums suggest avg 45)

- Having test driven a 320d 177 ED and 325d liked both will the 163hp engine feel like a let down.

Many thanks for your help and go easy on this newbie.
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      04-01-2008, 03:10 PM   #2
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Hi,

I currently have an E46 330d Auto and do 25k a year. It does 38mpg but even though this is well behind a 320d its still far better than other stuff I considered, e.g. subaru imprezza 20mpg etc.

As my mileage demands are going to drop soon, I was thinking of getting a new 320d 177, principally as its quick and the economy is very impressive. After a test drive I came away thinking it was as quick as my 330d in practice - great. I then test drove a E91 330d and realised life was too short to worry too much about those last few mpgs between a 330d and a 320d - do the sums, compare the savings from:

a) 20-25mpg, (petrol monster)
b) 38mpg and (330d)
c) 50mpg. (320d)

The big leap is from a) to b) - the increase b) to c) is much reduced and put against how much bigger the smile on your face from a 330d will be, not worth it.

All IMO, but for these reasons its now 330d/335d E91 only for me. Great car though it is the 320d is off my short list!
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      04-01-2008, 03:34 PM   #3
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My 325d Auto has been remapped by E-Maps and now returns around 40mpg on my commute, i wouldnt expect to see over 45mpg on a motorway though.
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      04-01-2008, 03:41 PM   #4
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Driving a 320d I would say that the likely thing I would like from a 325/330d is less of a diesel sound. I haven't had a chance to compare them closely but I understand the 325/330d sounds much better at idle.

Otherwise I find the 320d very fun to drive and anything more would get me in trouble (although I think the 320d eventually will anyways).

Currently I'm getting 10 litres to 100 km in city traffic (177HP)
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      04-01-2008, 03:44 PM   #5
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have a e90 163, with the chip it is now close to 200bhp (and you can definitely tell) plus average checked on fill up and computer is around 56mpg, so good if you do that kind of mileage, plus cheaper to buy, insurance less than 100 increase with declared mod
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      04-01-2008, 04:43 PM   #6
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Go for 163 model and box or map it - 200 on tap then.
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      04-01-2008, 04:58 PM   #7
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Dunno about everyone else, but on a recent trip to heathrow and back, i returned 54.4 mpg. It's a 177 and only 1500 miles on the clock. generally around town it returns about 45-48 mpg. This is the first oil burner i've driven that actually likes to be revved past 3000 rpm, there's some poke up there.
Haven't driven a 163 so I can't comment on the difference.

Has to be said though, if you are used to the thirst of the celica, the benefit from moving to a 325/330d should be sufficient to put a smile on your face anyway, and I can't imagine how much fun one of those is.

Save your money, buy the biggest diesel engine you can afford.

You know it makes sense.
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      04-01-2008, 06:23 PM   #8
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I would go for ANY of the six cylinder models.

I have an E91 320d (163bhp), this replaced an E46 330d (204bhp) I made the change to the smaller engine because of Co car tax. Big mistake, one which I constantly regret making.

It doesn't sound like a proper BMW, it doesn't have the grunt of the six cylinder engines and (in my opinion) marks the buyer (me) as a cheese pairing penny pincher.

The four cylinder diesel in a BMW is just wrong.

I now view 320d BMWs as the reps car of the year - a modern Sierra / Cavalier etc etc etc.

Buy the six cylinder engine - just check out the various video clips on this site (Carlos' one springs to mind) of the acceleration to 60 - it doesn't happen like that in the 320d - trust me I know.

You will regret it if you buy that 320d. I did and do.

Last edited by Ragman; 04-01-2008 at 06:41 PM. Reason: typo
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      04-01-2008, 06:48 PM   #9
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[quote=Ragman;2407274]

It doesn't sound like a proper BMW, it doesn't have the grunt of the six cylinder engines and (in my opinion) marks the buyer (me) as a cheese pairing penny pincher.

the point is 320d for work mapped or chipped the another for low use
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      04-02-2008, 01:38 AM   #10
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I've had my 325d since June last year and have just completed 17.5K miles since ownership. The car was 6 months old (dealer demo) and had 3.5K miles when I bought it. The car has just had it's first service at 21K.

Over the 17.5K I have consistently achieved around 45mpg. When I'm not so heavy footed I can easily reach 50mpg on motorways (sometimes between 51-53mpg) when using Cruise control set to 70mph. My commute is 110 round-trip each day - mostly motorway (M11/M25)

I previously owned a Golf 1.9GTi TDI PD 150bhp which loved to be 'ragged everywhere' and averaged about 45mpg. Since owning the 325d I've adjusted my driving style as the 6-cylinder engine is more refined and delivers the power more consistently than the Golf ever did.....Overall I think the 325d was a good compromise over a 330d vs 320d.

Although if I'd followed my heart I would have bought a 335d, but would choke on the fuel costs......
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      04-02-2008, 03:48 AM   #11
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I have a 330d auto on a 56 plate and I'm sure the auto saps the juice a little. I am only getting 33mpg but my daily commute is only 20 mins in traffic (12 miles each way) most of the time and the engine will hardly be warmed up. I drive fairly relaxed most of the time (due to the auto box) but give my right foot a good prod now when I can - who doesn't?

I was getting around 37mpg when commuting 25 miles each way and mostly free flowing traffic and was happy with this v's performance

On a longer run 50 miles + when I have re-set the av mpg I can get 41mpg but never have I had anywhere near the BMW claimed 45+mpg.

My car has been mapped 3 weeks ago (275ps) and this hasn't eally effected mpg at all although not yet tested it on a long run yet.

The latest 6 cylinder BMW diesels are about the best there is. I'm sure either the 163 or 177 320d is a fine car and will give you 50mpg but depends if you want that extra refinement as a trade off against mpg.

Whick ever you go for I would consider a re-map to boost the power

Phil

Last edited by PhilR; 04-02-2008 at 03:48 AM. Reason: Spelling
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      04-02-2008, 04:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragman View Post
I would go for ANY of the six cylinder models.

I have an E91 320d (163bhp), this replaced an E46 330d (204bhp) I made the change to the smaller engine because of Co car tax. Big mistake, one which I constantly regret making.

It doesn't sound like a proper BMW, it doesn't have the grunt of the six cylinder engines and (in my opinion) marks the buyer (me) as a cheese pairing penny pincher.

The four cylinder diesel in a BMW is just wrong.

I now view 320d BMWs as the reps car of the year - a modern Sierra / Cavalier etc etc etc.

Buy the six cylinder engine - just check out the various video clips on this site (Carlos' one springs to mind) of the acceleration to 60 - it doesn't happen like that in the 320d - trust me I know.

You will regret it if you buy that 320d. I did and do.

I think you're being unfairly harsh on the 320d - it's a great car and quick enough for the most part. I understand the noise issue but it doesn't bother me. As for checking out the vids of the 6 cyl models. I think it's fairly obvious to all that the higher the engine size - the faster it will be

You made a mistake going from higher power to lower.

I'm no cheese ...... (never heard that before) - I know what a penny pincher is though. So I go buy a 25k car and I'm a penny pincher?????
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      04-02-2008, 04:06 AM   #13
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I've got the 177ps 320d and having driven the older version find the newer engine smoother. Economy is fantastic - I've only done 500 miles so far, so the engine is still a bit tight, but I got 55mpg on a 40 mile drive to Leeds yesterday. The only (current) downside to the newer engine is the lack of remap options if that is your kind of thing.

The six pot diesels are lovely motors - you just have to consider whether you want to get an older car / worse ecomony (which might be a material hit if you are doing a big annual mileage) but with better refinement and performance.
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      04-02-2008, 04:12 AM   #14
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I own a 177 bhp 320d and drive the companies 163 bhp 320d and to be honest there nothing in them in terms of performance and MPG, strangly they both produce the same amount of torque and both are good engine for a 2.0 derv burner.

Both give around 48 mpg if you calculate it and don't go by the OBC.
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      04-02-2008, 01:04 PM   #15
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It really depends on your driving and what you want to get out of the car. ED will be more economical, but the benefit will really depend on the driving that you do. I wouldn't expect them to be that different in a steady cruise, but the start-stop should make a more significant differnce in city driving.

The 320d is a fine car in whatever spec you choose. Okay it's not blindingly quick, but it is more than enough for everyday driving. The economy is excellent and even on my old E46 320d I would see mid to high 50s without trouble on a long cruise (and even 60mpg if you were careful).

The six cylinders are a bit of a different animal. The six cylinder engine means that they are noticably smoother and more refined, but don't make the mistake of thinking the 320d a tractor as it is far from agricultural. Yes, the economy suffers, but then you do have a heap more go under your right foot.

By way of comparison my E36 320d was giving a real 43mpg on my normal commute of about 50% motorway and 50% city (by time not mileage). The E91 330d is currently returning just shy of 38mpg and is slowly climbing as it gets some miles under its wheels.

Try them both an you'll be sure of your decision.

Spot the difference:
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      04-02-2008, 01:26 PM   #16
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Welcome to e90post mate. I would go for an older cheaper 330d over a new 320d etc if i were you.

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      04-02-2008, 01:36 PM   #17
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What I should have added is that the six cylinder is also more flexible off turbo. The four cylinder is okay, but can be caught out if you floor it from very low (1000ish) revs. There is a bit of a pause whilst it gathers a few revs before delivering a swift kick in the backside as it heads for the horizon.

The six cylinder by comparison has noticably more shove and whilst it still needs to get up to about 1250rpm before it really takes off, it will pull reasonably well at seriously low revs.
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      04-02-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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wanna buy my car lol
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      04-02-2008, 01:54 PM   #19
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wanna buy my car lol
What are you getting next JJ?
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      04-02-2008, 01:57 PM   #20
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looks like a 525d m sport either in black or sliver with 19ich wheels about 3-5 months old with some bits on it
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      04-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #21
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looks like a 525d m sport either in black or sliver with 19ich wheels about 3-5 months old with some bits on it
Good choice mate, i do like 5 series mate.

Will you stick a tuning box on it? or even consider a re-map?

I take it you like your saloons bud?

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      04-02-2008, 02:09 PM   #22
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yeh good car dad has 535d fully loaded and i need something bigger a remap is a must brother has a disco 3 hse in black i look at them as bricks i like something that sticks to the road not rolls around it
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