E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-05-2008, 10:49 PM   #1
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
*Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*

***EDIT #3***

I drove around for a couple days with no sound, and then it came back again. The shim that I put in the space fell out while I was driving.
I took my car to my friend's shop because we truly wanted to get to the bottom of this.

I took my DPs off the car so I could see a little bit better with what exactly was going on.

We took the vacuum line off the rear actuator and connected a hand pump to it.
We activated the actuator (with the hand pump) closing the wastegate until the actuator couldn't move any further.
At the maximum closing capacity of the actuator, the wastegate was still opem a little bit and the wastegate could be easily moved by the hand.
This is the "ticking" sound that we are hearing because the wastegate is banging up against the seal.
It turned out that BMW is correct with their fix.

It turns out that the temporary fix that I came up with helped prevent the wastegate from moving while it was in the closed position, but it should not be done for a permanent fix whatsoever.

BMW claims that there is no loss of power while the ticking noise is present, but I disagree with this.
I agree that there is no loss of power under full boost, since the boost will help keep the wastegate closed but I believe that under part throttle there is a loss of some power. Since the wastegate isn't closing properly then the amount of lag will increase with a leaking wastegate since there will be some leakage before the system builds boost, therefore creating more of a lag.

I personally recommend that you get this taken care of at the dealer.


**EDIT #2**

The temporary fix is on page 7, post number 142, and 145.

*EDIT*

I found that the reason for the ticking is due to the rear wastegate coming loose.

I am trying to find the reason with why the wastegates are loosening without bringing my car to the dealer.
To those who think that I am wasting my time or those who are wondering why I would spend all this time, well--I really enjoy problem solving.
This is a hobby.
Hopefully I could find an ultimate solution instead of a band aid like adding a washer to prevent the vibration.

This is NOT due to DPs.
People that have OEM DPs are having the same issue!


First of all, Thank you so much to cbad335!

I'm pretty sure that I found the problem to the wastegate ticking noises.
Now, I just need your advice and opinions on what to do with finding a solution.

Also, What would be really great is for everyone out there including people that are not experiencing the ticking noises to see if they also have slack in this line. Please check to see if this rod is loose. I'll bet you anything that it's not.
Please check to see if there is anything that I am missing.
Do you have something in the space that I don't?

After reading this post from cbad335:

I was told by a dealership mechanic last week that BMW has recently come up with a fix for this problem that will be available soon. The mechanic told me that the ticking is a small metal rod in the waste gate that loosens w/ it's connecting part, producing the rattle. He went on to say, as Mr. 5 stated, that there is no performance loss or damage to the engine, just a horrible ticking sound. Previously, the only way to fix this problem was to replace the entire turbo, which BMW is unwilling to do now. I was told that if the rattling sound I was having turned out to be the ticking waste gate issue, I would be sent home w/ my car until the "fix" was available, at which time they would call me to schedule the repair. Fortunately for me, my rattling sound was a connection to the retrofitted oil cooler hoses that needed to be placed at a different angle; it was vibrating against another part.

I took a couple vids.
The first one is to show you how loose my connecting rod was.

I then took a vid to show you how the sound got a bit quieter when I put pressure on the rod. Just before I turn off the camera, you can hear it getting louder. Unfortunately, I didn't have anyone to rev up the engine while I was putting pressure on it, but I don't know if that would have been that safe anyway since the engine shifts around and i wouldn't want my arm to get smushed.

Anyway, solutions are welcome. Of course, filling up the gap is one idea but lets' talk about what kind of slack is needed? Polyuerathane spacers or something? I don't know. Let's come up with some ideas.

I've attached pics with where exactly it's loose.






Attached Images
 
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:36 PM   #2
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
81
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
Yea that would be the same symptoms as others.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:43 PM   #3
cbad335
Lieutenant Colonel
cbad335's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
1,733
Posts

 
Drives: '09 E92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, CA

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
You're welcome Mr. 5. I wasn't given the specifics of BMW's exact "fix" for this problem, and I'm not sure the mechanic new yet either. He had just been informed that a fix had been devised, and would be available in the near future. You may be right, and it's just some type of simple retrofit, like a spacer or washer of some kind. I would think BMW wants to find a parsimonious solution for a problem that may occur in many N54 engines. They certainly aren't going to replace everyone's turbo, only to have the problem reoccur in the new turbo unit.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:50 PM   #4
wj4
Major General
United_States
120
Rep
7,723
Posts

 
Drives: E90 manual 335i
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Burbank, CA

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to wj4
This was the same ticking sound AU335 had, right? I'm glad to hear that the solution is not that complicated and damaging to the engine.

Mr. 5-I think the easiest solution would to put a spacer in there, like you stated. I'm pretty sure you can pick up a rubber spacer at a local Home Depot or Lowes for under $1.
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:52 PM   #5
thegeneral101
Colonel
United_States
30
Rep
2,302
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M3 LRE,'13 750Li
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Miami/Michigan

iTrader: (0)

yep, nice job! its amazing that something so simple can cause so many problems
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:53 PM   #6
AU335
Colonel
AU335's Avatar
United_States
58
Rep
2,373
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 e92 335i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southeast

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to AU335 Send a message via MSN to AU335
Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
Appreciate 0
      04-05-2008, 11:56 PM   #7
Crazy Bimmer
The Jesal
Crazy Bimmer's Avatar
United_States
143
Rep
5,830
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago IL

iTrader: (19)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Crazy Bimmer
Phew, this is great news since everyone was in a panic about replacing their turbos.

Nice work guys!
__________________
2009 E90 M3 - SOLD
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 01:32 AM   #8
veightkiller
Brigadier General
veightkiller's Avatar
Canada
46
Rep
4,154
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver,B.C

iTrader: (3)

put a rubber washer in between the gap so you can still put pressure on it while installing the c-clip on the wastegate arm.that should do the job,im talking about the hard rubber washer though not the soft one and try home depot.
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 02:46 AM   #9
nico335
Guest
Rep
n/a
Posts

 
Drives:


damn... thanks A LOT mr. 5!
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 05:54 AM   #10
musc
mixing red and blue just like icees
musc's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
1,324
Posts

 
Drives: 335is DCT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SE USA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW 335is  [0.00]
Damn that is loud! Could definitely tell a difference when you applied pressure. Great find though. Hopefully a simple fix will present itself.
__________________
335is DCT | FBO | E60 | No meth | Cobb V3 BQ tuning by Wedge Performance
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 06:43 AM   #11
RiXst3r
RiXst3r's Avatar
153
Rep
6,509
Posts

 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (14)

Send a message via AIM to RiXst3r
are you sure rubber or polyeurothane won't melt from the heat? maybe you should consider a high tempurature gasket of sorts...

BTW... does the turbo say " YO " on it? LOL
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 07:36 AM   #12
2007_E93
Captain
10
Rep
604
Posts

 
Drives: ?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: ?

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335 View Post
Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
Yeah,..I dont quite understand where exactly this is coming from. I heard it in the vids but I wasn't able to make out what you were doing or pointing to. I saw the pic but I don't get where that pic is in relation to everything else.
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 09:23 AM   #13
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
are you sure rubber or polyeurothane won't melt from the heat? maybe you should consider a high tempurature gasket of sorts...

BTW... does the turbo say " YO " on it? LOL
This is one of the reasons why I said poly instead of rubber.
I think Poly has a higher heat threashold when compare to rubber.

I didn't notice the YO until you mentioned it.
Pretty funny.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 09:36 AM   #14
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335 View Post
Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
Open up your hood, and it's on the left side of the engine.
I posted pics so you can see better where.
Use a flashlight so you can see better.
Attached Images
  
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #15
BoostedBMW
Moderator
BoostedBMW's Avatar
United_States
82
Rep
6,787
Posts

 
Drives: TiAg E92 335
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2003 S2000  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to BoostedBMW
Nice find! At least now you can work on a solution without having to deal with the idiots at the dealership that would have told you that your boost gauge cooked your turbo.

I would also assume that that rod would get pretty hot since its sitting right next to the hotside of your turbo so I'm not sure what kind of spacer you can use that would stop the vibration without it melting. hmmm....
__________________
-Michael.
Berlina Black S2000 CR is now in the garage

l 19" Rial Daytona Race l KW V2 l Eisenhaus Race Exhaust l
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 10:09 AM   #16
Railgun
Major
Railgun's Avatar
United Kingdom
16
Rep
1,374
Posts

 
Drives: FD, CBR600RR, R56 JCW
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via ICQ to Railgun Send a message via AIM to Railgun Send a message via MSN to Railgun Send a message via Yahoo to Railgun Send a message via Skype™ to Railgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
are you sure rubber or polyeurothane won't melt from the heat? maybe you should consider a high tempurature gasket of sorts...
JB Weld.
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 11:26 AM   #17
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
It would be cool to put in a rubber washer and see what the difference would be.
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 11:27 AM   #18
jpsimon
Team Zissou
jpsimon's Avatar
United_States
164
Rep
9,017
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 STi
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Great info, thanks Mr. 5
__________________
2015 STi / 335xi (solid)
www.datazap.me - fast, free, interactive data log viewing

Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 11:32 AM   #19
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
Please guys,
Check to see if yours is lose too.
Let us know if you have the ticking noise or not.

Thanks!
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #20
sparkyg
Brigadier General
sparkyg's Avatar
Canada
47
Rep
3,493
Posts

 
Drives: EBII 2014 F31 328xi
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oil Country

iTrader: (5)

Poly is better at high temp, silicone would be good too but hard to find.

The best would be metal, the temp. in that area would be really high. What elastomer is used in the wastegate actuators?
Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #21
.:bHd:.
Major
.:bHd:.'s Avatar
Armenia
70
Rep
1,149
Posts

 
Drives: E92 335i MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (0)

I have my car in for service for this issue and this is what my SA told me. They are going to look inside the turbo. If the bushings on the flap are worn out or damaged, I'm gonna need a new turbo. If they are not, he's gonna get the actuators fixed which in turn will fix the tickling sound. I hope they dont replace the turbos.. its gonna take foreverrrr for them to come in, since no one has spare turbos laying around.
__________________

Appreciate 0
      04-06-2008, 12:32 PM   #22
Mr. 5
Modder Raider
Mr. 5's Avatar
Scotland
269
Rep
8,626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB

iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [4.00]
I have PM'd Sam at AutoTalent to see if he could check the wastegate rods since the turbos are already off the car.
I know that this thread was posted a while back but I'm thinking that the turbos are still off the car.

Here's the thread he started about the turbos coming off:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...+turbos+engine

I just wish I had these in front of me so I could see what's going on up close instead of reaching down in the engine compartment.

__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD

Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST