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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > New intake from Britalman, ***DYNO NUMBERS INSIDE***



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      04-24-2006, 10:36 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aapriadi
here's my opinion younghov85
sometimes i think certain people here think like they're always right and it gets worse when these haters only put negative comments in this forum, not being helpful whatsoever
for a fact no one cant trust those dyno numbers alone and i know for a fact that buying an intake will not increase my hp or anything and i bet lots of people know that too..the only thing i usually notice from an aftermarket intake is the different sound it produces thats all
but i dont care, its my money and i worked my ass off being a dishwasher to buy insignificant mods..its my passion ya know, i get that amazing sense of accomplishment once i get any kinda mods installed
and if anyone here gets offended by my post just pm me, say what u wanna say and i'll respect that
i would like to thank diesel and james too for this GB, no matter what everyone says about the intake
Thank you very nuch for that. I really want to here some testimonials from people who get the intake, hoping that there will be some true performance increase.
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      04-24-2006, 10:37 PM   #90
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glad we're not on bad terms anymore aapriadi
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      04-24-2006, 10:39 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335e90
So here it goes- the stock airbox does an excellent job of keeping hot engine bay air out of the intake because it is completely sealed. The only possible way of improving on this design is by using a material that doesn't conduct heat as well. If you look at the design of the Britalman it is clear that the tiny heat shield would do a terrible job of keeping the hot engine bay air out. The Britalman is also not a cold-air intake, so there is no possible way that the Britalman delivers the air nearly as cold as the stock airbox. More than likely, this is why they dynoed the car with an open hood, to eliminate this problem and produce artificial results. So the only way it could have hp gains is if it flowed a ton more efficiently(needs to be a TON because the air is hotter), enough to offset the loss from the hot air. This would require a significant difference in flow, but it is almost impossible that there is that big of a difference between the air filter in the Britalman v. stock air filter. But lets suppose the air filter in the Britalman is just that much better(very unlikely)-then just buy the air filter the Britalman kit uses and put it in the stock airbox to get even greater gains than Britalman.

what if i get someone to custom-make the stock airbox if its possible? so instead of using the tiny heat shield, the custom airbox will seal it..get my point? sorry for my bad english, but i'll try to have this done when i go back to indonesia..autoshops there do all kind of stuffs at a cheap price
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      04-24-2006, 10:43 PM   #92
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That would work, but try using a material the doesn't conduct heat as well as the plastic used in the stock airbox to get better gains. Also check out the stock design and see if you could make it better for more efficient airflow. If you ever get one designed and made at a reasonable price, I'm sure that many people would be more than happy to buy them.
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      04-24-2006, 10:47 PM   #93
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Damn, I need to get my car dynoed at that place.
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      04-24-2006, 10:52 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shragon
i totally agree with you that it is hard to similate real world driving conditions. you should see the set up they have at dinan in morgan hill, ca, just to do their r&d. their set-up is nothing like i have ever seen. if they didn't forbid us from taking pics inside the facility, i would show a pic right now. but even steve dinan himself said it is in no way 100% accurate. anyway, back to the point, you can't say that having the hood up when doing the dyno test is any better. if anything, it screws up the test more because hot air is escaping where it would be somewhat trapped in a moving car since the hood would be down.

the point is, if you see the torque numbers from the dyno sheet, where even the number for the stock intake number is way off from stock published number, one should think to himself, hey, there's no way this can be right and it should be retested. if need be, a second opinion from another dyno may be needed (yes, i know not all dynos are the same). my $0.03 (adjusted for inflation).

btw... believe me, i really want to see a decent aftermarket intake for the e90, but when you see weird numbers like the ones posted, you can't help but question what is being offered.

And do you want to pay for my car to go the Dinan facility to get tested? Get real man dyno runs are not cheap. Again I appreciate the feedback but what's done is done. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy the intake.


If I would of posted the intake info without the Dyno you all would have been crying that there were no Dyno numbers...
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      04-24-2006, 10:53 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335e90
That would work, but try using a material the doesn't conduct heat as well as the plastic used in the stock airbox to get better gains. Also check out the stock design and see if you could make it better for more efficient airflow. If you ever get one designed and made at a reasonable price, I'm sure that many people would be more than happy to buy them.
i have no clue about what material should be used, carbon fiber?
hopefully i'll be able to go back to indonesia this summer if not i'll ask around for help in columbus too, my friends know more about engine parts than i do..perhaps i can get some local help
but cant anyone here help us out though? dtmkarbon should be able to do this, he can make an oem cf hood so a custom box should be easy if he has a sample. i'm wondering if fujita's and britalman's size is similar. if its of the same size, someone should make this custom airbox!
and give me a commission too for my idea
in the meantime i'll ask around..time for me to go offline, 2midterms tomorrow and 1 on wednesday
peace out everyone
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      04-24-2006, 11:00 PM   #96
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If I would of posted the intake info without the Dyno you all would have been crying that there were no Dyno numbers... [/quote]


Very good point!
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      04-24-2006, 11:04 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335e90
If I would of posted the intake info without the Dyno you all would have been crying that there were no Dyno numbers...

Very good point! [/quote]

Hey no love loss bro. I am good people and I don't want anyone to think I am some kind of scammer. I will address the TQ #'s with the dyno shop and maybe they can give me some free runs with the hood down.
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      04-24-2006, 11:17 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel007
And do you want to pay for my car to go the Dinan facility to get tested? Get real man dyno runs are not cheap. Again I appreciate the feedback but what's done is done. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy the intake.
hahaha, naw, not at all. plus dinan doesn't do dyno runs for the public anyway, it's strictly r&d. i only pointed that out because i agreed that real world conditions are hard to replicate.

anyway, no, i'm not asking you to do anything more. i wasn't aware that you paid for the dyno run. since creative is trying to sell this new product, with your help, i figured creative paid for it.

put what's posted is posted. it's a public forum, where anybody that has interest in e90's can come together and discuss things about our cars and other things. i'm not trying to knock the product and telling others not to buy it, they can form their own opinions. i'm just stating mine going by what was posted in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel007
If I would of posted the intake info without the Dyno you all would have been crying that there were no Dyno numbers...
i totally agree bro.

no hard feelings.
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      04-24-2006, 11:55 PM   #99
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sounds tight
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      04-25-2006, 08:22 AM   #100
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      04-25-2006, 09:57 AM   #101
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i just had my car dyno'd at the same place britalman did the original dyno. the darker lines are stock. the higher red lines are after installing the britalman intake and nothing else

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      04-25-2006, 10:00 AM   #102
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Wow, that took a while to catch up. Interesting . . . I haven't formed an opnion quite yet. While gains are possible and probable, I do see justification in the questioning of the numbers. Part of me really wants to get one and another part is still a skeptic. We'll see I guess.
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      04-25-2006, 10:49 AM   #103
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Well, actually you should dyno a car with a hood up, it becomes more accurate then with the hood closed. Why is that? When your car is sitting on the dyno instead of blasting down the highway, you're missing about 60mph of cold wind blowing through your engine. No matter how good of a fan you got in your shop, it is not going to be able to replicate that one factor (not to mention most shop got a small shop fan sitting in front of the car "simulating" real world condiion). Counting out other factors, this one variable in air flow already plays a major factor. The car is running a lot hotter than actual road condition and probably sucking in less air, because hotter air equals less actual air molecules to mix with the fuel, thus ECU will compensate by adjusting timing and such, which cuts back power. So you see, that dyno only reflects how the car will react under that type of simulated condition, which is a far cry from what your car will be running at in the real world. So what I'm suggesting to everyone is not that the intake is useless and that hp gain is fake, but simply that you shouldn't make your decision on purchasing the intake based on that dyno result.

Also, a sealed cold airbox would definitely be better than just that thing sitting in the engine bay. And dyno aren't that expensive... about $75-$100 for about an hour.
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      04-25-2006, 01:05 PM   #104
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timezerofive.

You are correct. There are no such things as 60mph fans, those are only present at wind tunnels.

I had my 325I 6MT dyno'd last year.

And let me tell you first hand.. this dyno sheet is pure bullshit. Something tells me the car was never dyno'd at all.

Why? Because when Fujita was dyno'g azian beemers 330I automatic.. they couldnt get the car to stay in gear, it constantly wanted to downshift once you gave it.

Here is my dyno sheet.. its actually proper.


Here are more pics (as posted before) from the dyno day:
http://www.kwlt.net/dyno/

Max power is at 6200ish RPM, and its 201WHP.

Wheels make nominal difference on a dyno.

My dyno was done at Spitfire Performance in Missisauga, ON

They do nothing but build race cars and street/race cars, producing some major power. Dyno is regularly checked and tested, as it needs to be 100% accurate when dyno tuning a 1000+HP race car.
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      04-25-2006, 02:05 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess
I had my 325I 6MT dyno'd last year.

And let me tell you first hand.. this dyno sheet is pure bullshit. Something tells me the car was never dyno'd at all.

Why? Because when Fujita was dyno'g azian beemers 330I automatic.. they couldnt get the car to stay in gear, it constantly wanted to downshift once you gave it.
No offence man but you should not jump to conclusions before gettin your facts straight. Before making an ass of yourself you should PM me because your accusations are totally untrue.

Fisrt off I know the TQ and peak RPM numbers off but that does not make the Dyno result bullshit. I could post pics of my car rolling on the dyno, would that make you happy?

We were having the same problem with the auto tranny as Azian in forth gear the car would kick down to second right before redline. This is partly the reason we got peak HP a 5000 because we had to do the runs in 3rd gear, this may have contributed to the TQ numbers as well.

The HP numbers are consitant with your 325 and you don't have the loss from the 20" wheels and auto tranny.

I any of you would like to call the dyno shop to confirm this please feel free, thier info in in the GP thread.
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      04-25-2006, 02:20 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel007
No offence man but you should not jump to conclusions before gettin your facts straight. Before making an ass of yourself you should PM me because your accusations are totally untrue.

Fisrt off I know the TQ and peak RPM numbers off but that does not make the Dyno result bullshit. I could post pics of my car rolling on the dyno, would that make you happy?

We were having the same problem with the auto tranny as Azian in forth gear the car would kick down to second right before redline. This is partly the reason we got peak HP a 5000 because we had to do the runs in 3rd gear, this may have contributed to the TQ numbers as well.

The HP numbers are consitant with your 325 and you don't have the loss from the 20" wheels and auto tranny.

I any of you would like to call the dyno shop to confirm this please feel free, thier info in in the GP thread.

has the intake been shipped out yet? what do you think about custom-airbox? i'm thinkin about something similar to gruppe-m cf and simota cf..the heat shield is tiny in britalman but i'll see what i can do once i get the intake
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      04-25-2006, 08:18 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timzerofive
Well, actually you should dyno a car with a hood up, it becomes more accurate then with the hood closed. Why is that? When your car is sitting on the dyno instead of blasting down the highway, you're missing about 60mph of cold wind blowing through your engine.
Not sure about that. I thought the E90 engine compartment was pretty well sealed off, but I wouldn't know for sure considering I don't have one yet .
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      04-25-2006, 08:55 PM   #108
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Here are the dyno pics.
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      04-25-2006, 09:00 PM   #109
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That guy needs to pull up his pants.
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      04-25-2006, 09:19 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel007
Here are the dyno pics.
I don't know . . . looks photo shopped to me!
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