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      05-12-2008, 08:11 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by RockIt View Post
Agree 100%. I drove the 335D and found it utterly souless and uninvolving, good as it is. I don't dispute for one moment that it's a rapid car, although I am sick and tired of hearing about it ad nauseam. No wonder there's a negative reaction from some people on here.

Horses for courses, naturally, but I like the sound of an engine revving and redlining. I used to have huge fun in my VVTI Celica 'cos you had to work it to get the most out of it. My mates' Honda Type R is a hoot to drive and my RX8, redlining at 9000rpm was a scream. Yes there are faster cars, but not many could keep up with it around the twisties on a dry day. Personally I don't give a monkeys about drag times and over the ton. It's yawn inducing.
I totally agree. I swapped my 530d after 6 months because I found that (for me) an automatic diesel car was just boring.
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      05-12-2008, 08:13 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
...
My next car will be a petrol without a doubt!

Will this hurt diesel residules do you think then?
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Originally Posted by mjh93sa View Post
I'm sure the diesel residuals will not be noticably altered by one more 335d Carlos.
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
confused by what you said mate?


If you read what you posted Carlos it will become clear.

If your next car is a petrol I don't think it's going to hurt diesel residuals.
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      05-12-2008, 08:18 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by mjh93sa View Post


If you read what you posted Carlos it will become clear.

If your next car is a petrol I don't think it's going to hurt diesel residuals.
the two things i said, were no meant to be linked. Two seperate comments. Thats why they were on different lines.

Now do you think with all thats happening, diesel car residules will be affected?
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      05-12-2008, 08:22 AM   #70
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the two things i said, were no meant to be linked. Two seperate comments. Thats why they were on different lines.

Now do you think with all thats happening, diesel car residules will be affected?
No
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      05-12-2008, 08:25 AM   #71
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No
So diesels will still command a premium over their petrol counterparts even though the sums dont add up that its actually worth it?!
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      05-12-2008, 08:25 AM   #72
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I think that any car with more than say a 2-litre engine and serious economy is going to feel it in the residuals as the fuel prices escalate. It's just a part of the fun of having the car you want, rather than the one you need.

Even on this board you have people jumping out of 3.2 Audi's and 335i's in favour of 320d's. If this continues it's bound to have an effect on the residuals of larger engined cars. However, I would expect that it will go in the order of tax bracket to some degree. The older non-ED 335i will feel it in the residuals first as they are going to be harder for people to shift on. Then the 335d and the 330i/d.

So what you need to do Carlos is sell the 335d quick and get a Mini Cooper D or a 118d.
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      05-12-2008, 08:30 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by mjh93sa View Post
I think that any car with more than say a 2-litre engine and serious economy is going to feel it in the residuals as the fuel prices escalate. It's just a part of the fun of having the car you want, rather than the one you need.

Even on this board you have people jumping out of 3.2 Audi's and 335i's in favour of 320d's. If this continues it's bound to have an effect on the residuals of larger engined cars. However, I would expect that it will go in the order of tax bracket to some degree. The older non-ED 335i will feel it in the residuals first as they are going to be harder for people to shift on. Then the 335d and the 330i/d.

So what you need to do Carlos is sell the 335d quick and get a Mini Cooper D or a 118d.

couldnt do it mate. No way!!!

I really want a 911 and an M3 so god knows what next but for sure ill be keeping the DXB for a while yet! Ive just done so much with that car and explored its limits and enjoyed it so much.

Ive done alot of performance testing which is interesting for other 335d owners that are interested (some of which are not)


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      05-12-2008, 08:46 AM   #74
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Now do you think with all thats happening, diesel car residules will be affected?

No mate, not a chance, there is something that seriously appeals to a lot of people with the 335d, and that is the wave of torque you get from it, for a lot of people that is preferable to a high revving petrol. The 335d is a phenomenal car and will be highly sort after for a very long time, it was the first diesel for alot of petrol heads who said they would never buy a tractor, and I think it will always be more desirable than the 335i on the used market in the UK.

It is the same as M3 vs Alpina B3, or the M5 vs the Alpina B5, both do the same thing on paper, but drive them and they are completely different cars that appeal to a different market.
When my old man was considering swapping his 730d over for a different car he nearly tried an M5 out, but I know he wouldn't like it, a B5 touring on the other hand would suit him down to the ground, the B5 to me fells like a 535d on steroids and I know he would love this.
I however would always take the M3 over the B3, I just love the aggressiveness of the M3, it is hugely addictive, and I mean the way it drives not the way it looks, in some ways I prefer the look of the B3.

Also a lot of M3 owners will feel the 335d is quicker, you would be surprised how many people don't know how to drive a NA petrol car properly. A mate of mine bought an SMG E46 coupe recently, his last car was a remapped 330d E46 auto, in that he pressed the throttle and the wave of torque pushed him along very rapidly.
When I asked him how he was getting on with the M3 he said he really liked it but was a little disapointed with the performance, thought it would be alot quicker than his 330d was. I was a bit miffed by this as my M3 absolutely destroyed my remapped 535d. So we went out in it, the first thing I noticed was he had the SMG box in M2, so I put it in M5 and made him turn the sport button on. Off we went, I didn't say anything while he was driving but let him take me about 3 miles and then told him to get out and let me drive.
He had been changing gear around 4800rpm, everytime, this had come driving a diesel for 3 years I reckon, so in I got, dsc off, S6, and away we went.
Now, the M3 doesn't come alive until 4500rpm, it then starts to scream and you keep it in that bracket and it is an absolute monster!!
Now it was someone else car and we were on the public roads so I didn't push it to silly levels, but when he grabbed my arm and pleaded for me to slow down I knew he realised what the M3 is all about.
He has since done some track training, learning how to control it properly and is absolutely loving the car, he admits that he now feels a bit stupid thinking the M3 was not particularly quick!
I bet there are loads of people out there in M3's, let alone 330i's, that would think and prefer a 335d, because the way it delivers power suits them far better than the high revving petrol.

Also you have to remember alot of people are waiting for the 335d to drop to their price bracket, this will always keep prices up, it is probably the most sought after BMW on the market after the 320d.
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      05-12-2008, 08:58 AM   #75
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Agree with you totally gIzzE.

The way I drive the diesel suits me so much better. Like your mate (did) I tend to work in the 1~4k range, so a petrol is not getting a proper work out. With a diesel I use more of the potential of the car everytime that I drive it.

I would contest through that the 335d as a mainstream high emmisions vehicle will see something of a hit in the short term, but... they won't get quite the hit of the 335i with it's top end tax level (before ED). The M3 will hold it's residuals because there will always be ethusiasts that will want one and it's also in shorter supply.

Given a few more years the 335i/d will supplant the E30 M3 as the car that all the kids want and the old guys in the BMW car club are all driving.
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      05-12-2008, 10:10 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
So diesels will still command a premium over their petrol counterparts even though the sums dont add up that its actually worth it?!
I think this has been the case for some time. Diesel is probably the fuel of choice now for cars 2litre and above, because of the perceived economy benefits and residuals. That's a self perpetuating cycle.

The market is under valuing petrol cars at the moment. If you are selling it's not great news, but if you are buying then a two year old 330i is an absolute bargain.
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      05-12-2008, 10:57 AM   #77
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IMO you should all have a go in a V8 M3 to at least know
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      05-12-2008, 11:05 AM   #78
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Great write up Gizze.
Have you read last month's BMWCAR mag?

There is a great write up on the Alpina B5s, sounds like an awesome machine and leaves the M5 for dead apparently.

It has certainly got me thinking about the B3 BiTurbo.
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      05-12-2008, 11:48 AM   #79
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Great write up Gizze.
Have you read last month's BMWCAR mag?

There is a great write up on the Alpina B5s, sounds like an awesome machine and leaves the M5 for dead apparently.

It has certainly got me thinking about the B3 BiTurbo.
I love the B3 but aint even seen one on the road yet! Are they being sold at the moment or not?
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      05-12-2008, 12:05 PM   #80
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Yeah they are out in coupe form, I haven't seen one on the road either, seen a few D3's though. They do look nice and different enough from a regular BMW to make it look a bit special.
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      05-12-2008, 12:13 PM   #81
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Yeah they are out in coupe form, I haven't seen one on the road either, seen a few D3's though. They do look nice and different enough from a regular BMW to make it look a bit special.
ooops i have seen one on the road. well in a car park, a white e90 b3 biturbo just not seen any coupes yet! thats what i meant!
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      05-12-2008, 02:07 PM   #82
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Some long posts and I confess I haven't read all of them, but one thing that I haven't seen in peoples calculations is tax and road fund licence.

Although, I didn't pay attention in class that day so I have no idea how it works, but company car tax and road fund licence might make a difference so some people. Certainly more than 0.1 of a second

:shrug:
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      05-12-2008, 02:29 PM   #83
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IMO you should all have a go in a V8 M3 to at least know

When are you free?
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      05-12-2008, 02:35 PM   #84
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Some long posts and I confess I haven't read all of them, but one thing that I haven't seen in peoples calculations is tax and road fund licence.

Although, I didn't pay attention in class that day so I have no idea how it works, but company car tax and road fund licence might make a difference so some people. Certainly more than 0.1 of a second

:shrug:
... and insurance.
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      05-12-2008, 02:41 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by mjh93sa View Post
I think that any car with more than say a 2-litre engine and serious economy is going to feel it in the residuals as the fuel prices escalate. It's just a part of the fun of having the car you want, rather than the one you need.

Even on this board you have people jumping out of 3.2 Audi's and 335i's in favour of 320d's. If this continues it's bound to have an effect on the residuals of larger engined cars. However, I would expect that it will go in the order of tax bracket to some degree. The older non-ED 335i will feel it in the residuals first as they are going to be harder for people to shift on. Then the 335d and the 330i/d.
Matt, without going off topic onto residuals, you've made a good point about engines over 2 litres and current fuel costs. If I hadn't have done my homework before trading in the 335d, I may have been insulted TBH. I had already noticed since buying the E92 last year how the depreciation was somewhat quicker than 'all' had predicted. I now can't help wondering whether fuel costs aside, it has something to do with BMW almost 'mass producing' units. As I understand it, there are new M3's sitting in dealer showrooms 'waiting' to be bought?

Certainly the company car buyers are going to buy with tax brackets in mind, however what percentage of unit sales do they amount to and how heavily do they impact on the car market? As you say, ultimately it comes down to what you personally can afford and would enjoy driving and what the heart wants. As a few have already said and the figures we've posted, the gap favouring the diesel engine over the petrol engine for fuel costs appears to be narrowing. Time will tell.
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      05-12-2008, 03:04 PM   #86
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BMW depreciation hit rock bottom because the way dealers got paid was set up all wrong, there was around 16% margin in a new car, however, there was also some serious bonuses for selling X amount of cars, in fact the bonus was better than the margin, so alot of dealers started up online brokers (under a different name of course) and started selling cars with no profit on them at all, knowing full well it didn't matter as the bonus for selling 1000 new cars a month was all they needed.
Now problem with this is it was mainly the big boys like Coopers and Sytners doing it, while other smaller dealerships simply couldn't compete, so those that didn't know about internet prices or were scared to buy a car from anywhere but their local dealer got a bit of a shock come trade in time.

Take my 535d as an example, in M-Sport touring guise with all the toys it was 51k list, now the guy who bought it first got 15% off so it was 43k, so when he sold it at a year old for 36k it had lost 580 a month. But what about the person who bought from a dealer with no discount?? They would have lost 1250 a month!

So, the person who got it with discount thinks that 580 a month for a 50k car is pretty good, the one who paid list, or pretty near, which is probably 90% of customers all think BMWs are a depreciation disaster.

BMW have now changed this round completely so bonuses are now achieved based on customer satisfaction and for margin achieved, so reduced margin and bigger bonuses but for the right reasons, so the discounts are no way near as big now as they were last year.

Yeah of course bigger engine cars will loose more, but if anything BMWs will do well, even there 280bhp 4x4, the X5 3.0sd, is under the 225g/km mark, so if someone wants a big pwerful car that is not 400 a year to tax or cost 25 a day to drive into London and they were trying to decide between say an X5, ML320cdi or the Q7 the BMW would now bag it.
So yeah, big cars will suffer, but BMWs biggest beat alot of other companies mid size, fairly small engined, regular family saloons, they are so far ahead of the competition in this respect I can't see it being a real problem.
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      05-12-2008, 05:18 PM   #87
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Yeah they are out in coupe form, I haven't seen one on the road either, seen a few D3's though. They do look nice and different enough from a regular BMW to make it look a bit special.
There should be one arriving to this forum shortly (10 Days time to be exact)
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      05-19-2008, 02:27 PM   #88
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Tonight Diesel 129.9 Petrol 116.9 that is 13p a litre more or 60p a gallon.

Someone is pulling my plonker.
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