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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Wash, Wax, Detailing and Cosmetic protection/repairs > a $1200 detail is rediculous right?



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      05-16-2008, 10:57 AM   #45
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I knew the condition wouldn't be nearly as bad as indicated. In fact, I am pretty sure one polishing step could remove 90% of those swirls. Two will be more than enough to get out 99% of the marring. I think I saw three scratches/chips that will require sanding, all of them under 3 inches. Honestly, having seen those pictures I'd quote 6 hours @ $75/hr, so $450 (which, incidentally is the package price on my site I give to people with cars in your condition). I think $300 is a little low because of the three scratches that qill require sanding; that's ~45 min to an hour of work alone. Like Shim said, get me a plane ticket and I'll do the detail.

And fwiw, there is nothing wrong with a $1200 detail. I've done concours cars for quite a bit more than that; but that's an entirely different animal. The OPs car essentially needs what we do every day.

Wash, clay, SIP/orange (maybe even white), 106ff/white or grey, jetseal, wax, profit. 6-8 hours tops. In fact, I'd schedule another car the same day. :/
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      05-16-2008, 11:44 AM   #46
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if you need to repaint a few panels then ok..no less than 2-3 for that price..you better be getting swissvax..i would ask what kind of products he uses..and as for the pff..i am sure he is talking about ptfe..swissvax has a ptfe wax that is about 200usd..ptfe is the only known surface to which a gecko cannot stick..it is the smoothest surface known to man!! that said it still is best to get a wax with the most white caranuba possible!!! unless his name is Paul Dalton i am not paying 1200 for a detail.. i have the last detail do my work for about 300 when i am lazy and that's cause i have a darker color..around me it is the best can find and i have had TONS of compliments..1200 you better get a jar of 600usd mystery wax from swissvax also...but again if they are respraying a few panels it could cost 2-500 per panel depending on size..there are 1200 dollar details that are worth it..question is are these guys your dealing with that good and do they use that good of product...7 stage wash and detail is like a 100usd job..not a 30-40 step process it should be
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      05-16-2008, 12:02 PM   #47
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I own Mystery, Vintage, Concours, Concorso, Ital, have a few Dodo samples, 50/50, Vic Wax, blah blah blah; the wax he uses doesn't make a lot of difference. The major issue for you is the paint correction. 95% of the end result will depend on the detailers skill with a rotary. Don't get caught up in wax hype; sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass.
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      05-16-2008, 12:17 PM   #48
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sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      05-16-2008, 01:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by picus View Post
I own Mystery, Vintage, Concours, Concorso, Ital, have a few Dodo samples, 50/50, Vic Wax, blah blah blah; the wax he uses doesn't make a lot of difference. The major issue for you is the paint correction. 95% of the end result will depend on the detailers skill with a rotary. Don't get caught up in wax hype; sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass.
OMG that is FUN-E! Man I got a good laugh outta that one, LoL!
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      05-16-2008, 03:47 PM   #50
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      05-16-2008, 03:48 PM   #51
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      05-16-2008, 09:02 PM   #52
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1200 is alottt

i paid 250ish to have nearly every swirl removed on my old black 330. My guy on the island knows his shiet and does it for a damn good price.
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      05-16-2008, 11:57 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 328i View Post
I'm going to have to disagree, for wet sanding and chip repair, $300 is an unfair price. However, charging more than 6-700 is a little unfair.
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Originally Posted by picus
Honestly, having seen those pictures I'd quote 6 hours @ $75/hr, so $450 (which, incidentally is the package price on my site I give to people with cars in your condition). I think $300 is a little low because of the three scratches that qill require sanding; that's ~45 min to an hour of work alone.
Well, it's hard to tell exactly how bad things are until you're there in person, but from the pictures it doesn't seem nearly as bad as the OP feared. I think 6-700 is still high, but 450 is within reason. 3 bills might be a bit low, in retrospect, depending on how much of the large scratches are paint transfer vs. actual removal.
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      05-17-2008, 10:50 AM   #54
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I don't get paid $75/hr to do a critical care transport for unstable pediatric organ transplant candidates. As an RN I make some good money but the reason for that is my education and responsibility of holding others life in my hands, this is washing and cleaning a car for christsake.

While this may be apples to oranges in some respects. $75/hr is still a lot of money....however....if a job is bidded out at X dollars and is done in 10hrs by one guy and 4hrs by another (all work quality equal) then yes the 4hr guys deserves to be paid "more" because if his efficient time usage by virtue of experience.

$1200 is still $1200 and not exactly walking around money for most people, this is a major purchase. If the guys are going to turn the car around from the scratched-up bird sh!t express and give you a damn near concours detail , then think about how happy you will be to see your baby in such good order.

I would at least be asking for a discount on regular details from this guy in the future, set up a schedule and have it become maintenance instead of major repair endevours.
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      05-17-2008, 03:44 PM   #55
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I love that. So many people think of detailing as washing a car. You're an RN and need to point out that you don't make $75/hr, so a detailer shouldn't? Is that the inference? Do you pay your mechanic $75/hr? Your plumber? Your roofer? Electrician? I bet you do. The difference is for those trades you need a license, and to detail you don't - which is why there are so many hacks. If electricians were as unregulated as detailers houses would be burning down all over the place. Does that mean detailing is easier? No, it's just that anyone can call themselves a professional. Problem is most of them suck; the same as I'd suck at re-wiring your house.

Detailing at this level is every bit as skilled as being any one of the trades I just mentioned. And before someone rags on me for defending my trade; I spent a long time in school to become an engineer; I make more money detailing then I did working as an engineer. Is that wrong? I don't think so - detailing is every bit as skilled and a hell of a lot harder work.
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      05-17-2008, 06:13 PM   #56
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after reading your first post $1200 did seem fair from the way you described the car. you made it seem like they had to wet sand the most of the car. wet sand takes lots of time and then you have to compound and polish and sealant and wax. its many stages to get perfect. once i see your pictures and what you expect from the car i would say a $300 detail is all you need. just wash then clay and then polish and seal/wax and you will have a very nice car. if you want those repairs done to scratches and chips then i say $700-$800 is max payment.

for those that say $1200 is rediciculous without seeing pictures of the car first are cheap skates. there are some car that do require this much work and that price is justified
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      05-17-2008, 07:38 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
I own Mystery, Vintage, Concours, Concorso, Ital, have a few Dodo samples, 50/50, Vic Wax, blah blah blah; the wax he uses doesn't make a lot of difference. The major issue for you is the paint correction. 95% of the end result will depend on the detailers skill with a rotary. Don't get caught up in wax hype; sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass.
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      05-17-2008, 10:35 PM   #58
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After I read that, I thought of making that my sig too and I thought i would be so original...until I read the following post!

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sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      05-18-2008, 10:20 AM   #59
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After seeing the pics, I have to say that 16 hours is too excessive. I would say 8 hours for a pro would be fair, but your paint isn't trashed enough for a 16 hour detail to be necessary. I think you could fly many competent detailers out for you and have them do your car for less and still be under $1200.



IMHO you charging your client for 15 hours of work isn't fair, because working with a machine you can achieve better results working in half the time.
I do understand what you are saying, but not all people like their car to be machined. I explain what needs to be done, present them with options of how it can be achieved and then let them make the determination. I guess it all goes down to the level of detail you are doing. Just wheels alone would take me 1 hour or so to do. They will be taken off the car and cleaned/waxed. Engine bay will take 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Interior will take about 2-3 hours. And the exterior I do not want to even start on that. It's skilled work and I am putting a lot of time into it. Considering my time and opportunity cost, I come with my number. I am not willing to detail for 20-30$ an hour simple because I am not doing the car wash like place job.

This car will require a lot attention.
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      05-18-2008, 10:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
There's a lot wrong with my paint.

-swirls all over
-chips on the hood need to get touched up
-scratches that aren't deep, but need work fixing
-scratches in the bumper down and into the plastic
-remnants of bird poo that looks like paint discoloration

Basically, I have had super bad luck with the paint on this car from day one. All my experiences with having someone else wash it have been bad. I haven't done much better, but at least I haven't messed anything up worse.

So, here's what I think I remember.

-two guys gonna spend probably a full 8 getting it back to perfect
-I think he said 7 stages (i don't know what defines a stage)
-He said he'd finish with a "PPF sealant"? He said it is that good
-wet sand
-clay bar
-other stuff that I don't remember

I'm comfortable knowing that even IF I overpay this guy, the job will get done right. That will save me from the embarassment of getting screwed twice. (first on the over pay, and second on a poor job).

The idea of the price of skilled labor (2 dudes, 8 hours) doesn't add up to what I think is an acceptable profit margin on this job. I suppose that ulitimately, the price of anything is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it. I don't think I'm comfortable with this price.

Do you guys think a task of this sort could ever be worth $1200? If so, under what circumstances? I'm referring to the guy as "this guy" but he has a super legit business and works events for one of the MAJOR detail product companies. In fact, I met him at the product showcase area at the Long Beach Grand Prix working a booth for said company. What do you think? A fool and his money as soon parted? Or, you get what you pay for?
you definitely got jacked. my friend's aston is going to a 2 day detail and it's only 500. for your price, get the car resprayed
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      05-18-2008, 10:41 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picus View Post
I love that. So many people think of detailing as washing a car. You're an RN and need to point out that you don't make $75/hr, so a detailer shouldn't? Is that the inference? Do you pay your mechanic $75/hr? Your plumber? Your roofer? Electrician? I bet you do. The difference is for those trades you need a license, and to detail you don't - which is why there are so many hacks. If electricians were as unregulated as detailers houses would be burning down all over the place. Does that mean detailing is easier? No, it's just that anyone can call themselves a professional. Problem is most of them suck; the same as I'd suck at re-wiring your house.

Detailing at this level is every bit as skilled as being any one of the trades I just mentioned. And before someone rags on me for defending my trade; I spent a long time in school to become an engineer; I make more money detailing then I did working as an engineer. Is that wrong? I don't think so - detailing is every bit as skilled and a hell of a lot harder work.
AMEN. I am an engineer as well and I make more money in my business (detailing/Paint Protection Film). Like you said anybody can call themselves a pro. But in the end it comes down to a few who really know what they are doing or stand behind their work. Work with Integrity = priceless. Work without it = car wash by random person. lol. You and I have parallel lives there man.

Exactly, My wife is a PA-C (certified Physican Assistant) and she does not make 75$/hr, so does that mean I should not make it either??? I probably did spend more time researching and learnign than she did in school though....
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      05-18-2008, 02:55 PM   #62
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that's not a detail, that's a repair bill
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      05-18-2008, 03:08 PM   #63
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you definitely got jacked. my friend's aston is going to a 2 day detail and it's only 500. for your price, get the car resprayed
Unless you're paying big bucks for a show car level paint job, preserving oem paint is the best option if possible. For $1,200 you can maybe get a macco respray job, I bet that will look great, not to mention most body shops won't able to finish off the paint to look perfect anyway, because they just use filling glazes. I'm also sure your friends Aston Martin doesn't require as much work as this car, or at least I would hope that it has been well maintained.


I think it's kind of funny how people will say that a high quality expensive detail is too much money, but many of them will buy after market parts for the same amount that won't nearly make as much of an impact on the cars value, especially when it comes to resale.
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      05-18-2008, 06:35 PM   #64
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Strictly my opinion here, but...

Are there detailing jobs that are worth $1,200? Absolutely!

Is this one? Hard to say. Based on the pics posted, I'd say no.

However, unless the owner is going to go the extra mile to take care of the car going forward and avoid the circumstances that led to its current condition, it's probably wasted money. If he doesn't, he can expect to be in the same position this time next year.

I'm not a fan of color sanding the paint on daily drivers. My daily driver sits outside, uncovered, all day long and probably about half of the nights. It needs all of the paint possible to fight off the elements. Plus, today's environmentally friendly paints are applied so thinly that it doesn't take much to burn through them.
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      05-18-2008, 07:27 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
I do understand what you are saying, but not all people like their car to be machined. I explain what needs to be done, present them with options of how it can be achieved and then let them make the determination. I guess it all goes down to the level of detail you are doing. Just wheels alone would take me 1 hour or so to do. They will be taken off the car and cleaned/waxed. Engine bay will take 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Interior will take about 2-3 hours. And the exterior I do not want to even start on that. It's skilled work and I am putting a lot of time into it. Considering my time and opportunity cost, I come with my number. I am not willing to detail for 20-30$ an hour simple because I am not doing the car wash like place job.

This car will require a lot attention.
I'm sorry, I do not want to put down your work, but your description to me sounds like cleaning a ballroom floor with a tooth brush.
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sure Vintage is rad, but if they screw up the prep it won't matter if they coat it in pure white carnauba picked from trees that bloom every ten years during a full moon; it will still look like ass. ---PICUS
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      05-18-2008, 08:06 PM   #66
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Picus i totally agree..you can have Zymol Solaris or whatever...but if you apply it and accidentally let it sit you just ruined all the work you put in...well not all of it but pretty much..i had my experience when i first got in to high end waxes..well not high end but mid-high Zymol Concorso..high end to me is 500 and up like Swissvax Mystery, Zymol Destiny and Vintage and so on.. i let didn't listen did the whole car and had a disaster..but when i did it panel by panel and let it sit for 5-10 mins i had amazing results... but the prep mostly the polishing technique is what makes the main difference between a good detail and a bad one.. now in no way am i saying that's it...but chances are if the detailer has the proper skill to polish he takes pride and passion in what he does and it will reflect on the rest of the car and the products he uses... products make can make a pretty big difference but it's the prep..and i know you are a big preacher...i am not in the class you are that's for sure..but i hope someday i will get there and get there soon!!!! it just sucks i have such a bad back i can get sidelined for weeks if not months..eh but shit happens..it's not like i have a detailing business but i a building an ocd with my car's cleanliness and i HATE Swirls with a passion...my $30 microfiber blankets were worth every penny and look as good as the day i got them. since then i have not had a single swirl on my cars paint since i detailed her the first day i got her..clay and all which since ordered the car vs picking one off the lot i was told to still caly the car by Paul Dalton..virtually everyone i talked to said i was nuts at the dealer at other dealers car nuts i know and i was AMAZED how much rail dust and crap i got off of the car that was produced the month before..it was nuts..i LOVE my baby!!!! I LOVE SPOILING HER!!!!! I wish i had a guy Paul Dalton around where i live..or you picus or feminus i would save my back a lot of pain!!!! and avoid missing out on waxing my car every month like i like too..hell it's been almost 6 months cause of problems...since i am feeling better i my next splurge is for Paul's new wax...i cannot wait i am gonna be in new wax heaven..hell just feeling better and waxing the beast is gonna be nice...it's been rough just washing her every week..but now that i bought a pressure washer it is sooooo much easier!!!! i don't know why my idiot ass hadn't gotten one sooner!!!

damn i must have typed in hyper speed.. well time does fly when you have been on powerful opiates and muscle relaxers for a few year now
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