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      05-20-2008, 06:16 AM   #1
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Big Brother strikes again.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3965033.ece



A massive government database holding details of every phone call, e-mail and time spent on the internet by the public is being planned as part of the fight against crime and terrorism. Internet service providers (ISPs) and telecoms companies would hand over the records to the Home Office under plans put forward by officials.
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      05-20-2008, 06:30 AM   #2
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      05-20-2008, 06:31 AM   #3
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It'll never get off the ground. The government can't even roll out a cohesive, budgeted, on-time IT system for the NHS

Even if they get anywhere near awarding the contract to some dodgy quango, there are massive privacy/human rights issue to hurdle through Parliament first

I can't see it happening myself, governments should stick to what they're good at - taxing us
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      05-20-2008, 07:15 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stnewcar View Post
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3965033.ece



A massive government database holding details of every phone call, e-mail and time spent on the internet by the public is being planned as part of the fight against crime and terrorism. Internet service providers (ISPs) and telecoms companies would hand over the records to the Home Office under plans put forward by officials.
I think it's fine. We can trust the government with our confidential information.

It's not as if they will just put it all on a DVD, stick it in the post and completely loose it ...
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      05-20-2008, 07:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by DervFan View Post
It'll never get off the ground. The government can't even roll out a cohesive, budgeted, on-time IT system for the NHS

Even if they get anywhere near awarding the contract to some dodgy quango, there are massive privacy/human rights issue to hurdle through Parliament first

I can't see it happening myself, governments should stick to what they're good at - taxing us
+1

With you 99.9% DervFan

Exception is the goverment sticking to taxing us - ouch

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      05-20-2008, 07:19 AM   #6
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      05-20-2008, 10:13 AM   #7
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Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "For a country to tax itself into propserity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself off the ground by the handle".

If your average man in the street can see that, unchecked, the current "tax everyone to death scenario" is going to break the country why cannot our (let's face it, massively overpaid) government?

I for one am sick of hearing how this government want to stick their collective nose in and further their level of control over my life. I'm being told what eat, how to eat, what to drink, what (not) to smoke, where/when I can work, how to drive/what to drive etc - the list goes on.

It wouldn't be quite so galling if we were getting good value for money and the rest of this country's problems were sorted out - but whilst grannies are being bashed in for their pensions, the NHS is pants, immigration is a joke and our education system is 20 years behind the rest of the world I would rather our MP's spent their time a little wiser than debating whether ginger 17 year olds should be allowed to use a sunbed.

Either someone hasn't installed a mantra of "prioritise" or someone within government has very a bizarre idea of what the electorate think are important to this country.

If this were the private sector they would all have been banished 9 years ago for gross incompetence. But God bless the public sector eh, where the time is flexi and the pension is fat.

This country is fast approaching the point at which it disappears up its own bottom, and this is another example of wasting billions of pounds (on a system which ultimately won't work) which could be far better spent elsewhere.

George Orwell had it so right, he was only out by 20 years or so...
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      05-20-2008, 12:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "For a country to tax itself into propserity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself off the ground by the handle".

If your average man in the street can see that, unchecked, the current "tax everyone to death scenario" is going to break the country why cannot our (let's face it, massively overpaid) government?

I for one am sick of hearing how this government want to stick their collective nose in and further their level of control over my life. I'm being told what eat, how to eat, what to drink, what (not) to smoke, where/when I can work, how to drive/what to drive etc - the list goes on.

It wouldn't be quite so galling if we were getting good value for money and the rest of this country's problems were sorted out - but whilst grannies are being bashed in for their pensions, the NHS is pants, immigration is a joke and our education system is 20 years behind the rest of the world I would rather our MP's spent their time a little wiser than debating whether ginger 17 year olds should be allowed to use a sunbed.

Either someone hasn't installed a mantra of "prioritise" or someone within government has very a bizarre idea of what the electorate think are important to this country.

If this were the private sector they would all have been banished 9 years ago for gross incompetence. But God bless the public sector eh, where the time is flexi and the pension is fat.

This country is fast approaching the point at which it disappears up its own bottom, and this is another example of wasting billions of pounds (on a system which ultimately won't work) which could be far better spent elsewhere.

George Orwell had it so right, he was only out by 20 years or so...


Couldn't agree more.
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      05-20-2008, 02:55 PM   #9
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Great idea. F... all to hide, no worries IMO. Tw... 'hack in' and invade peoples privacy etc. etc. Might as well be the Government doing it legally. About time the innocent were protected more. If only I was PM.
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      05-21-2008, 06:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "For a country to tax itself into propserity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself off the ground by the handle".

If your average man in the street can see that, unchecked, the current "tax everyone to death scenario" is going to break the country why cannot our (let's face it, massively overpaid) government?

I for one am sick of hearing how this government want to stick their collective nose in and further their level of control over my life. I'm being told what eat, how to eat, what to drink, what (not) to smoke, where/when I can work, how to drive/what to drive etc - the list goes on.

It wouldn't be quite so galling if we were getting good value for money and the rest of this country's problems were sorted out - but whilst grannies are being bashed in for their pensions, the NHS is pants, immigration is a joke and our education system is 20 years behind the rest of the world I would rather our MP's spent their time a little wiser than debating whether ginger 17 year olds should be allowed to use a sunbed.

Either someone hasn't installed a mantra of "prioritise" or someone within government has very a bizarre idea of what the electorate think are important to this country.

If this were the private sector they would all have been banished 9 years ago for gross incompetence. But God bless the public sector eh, where the time is flexi and the pension is fat.

This country is fast approaching the point at which it disappears up its own bottom, and this is another example of wasting billions of pounds (on a system which ultimately won't work) which could be far better spent elsewhere.

George Orwell had it so right, he was only out by 20 years or so...
Some very valid points, many of which I agree with. However, my pension cerainly isn't fat, flexi-time isn't an option and the education system that I am proud to be part of certainly isn't 20 years behind the rest of the world... Apart from that, I agree that we are far too often being told what/what not to do. I was making this point with a group of friends just the other day when we saw the new advertisement about women and units of alcohol.

This isn't just in our country though, but seems to be sweeping through Europe and America as well. Thing is, in certain countries, (like Greece), they just seem to take no notice and get on with their lives.
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      05-22-2008, 01:15 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RockIt View Post
Thing is, in certain countries, (like Greece), they just seem to take no notice and get on with their lives.
Is that ancient or modern Greece. After all, ancient Greece was not nice if you were a child, the very people that need protecting in our society, which I am sure you would agree. But yes I agree, best to carry on with life - no point in looking over your shoulder all the time - surely.
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      05-22-2008, 02:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "For a country to tax itself into propserity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself off the ground by the handle".

If your average man in the street can see that, unchecked, the current "tax everyone to death scenario" is going to break the country why cannot our (let's face it, massively overpaid) government?

I for one am sick of hearing how this government want to stick their collective nose in and further their level of control over my life. I'm being told what eat, how to eat, what to drink, what (not) to smoke, where/when I can work, how to drive/what to drive etc - the list goes on.

It wouldn't be quite so galling if we were getting good value for money and the rest of this country's problems were sorted out - but whilst grannies are being bashed in for their pensions, the NHS is pants, immigration is a joke and our education system is 20 years behind the rest of the world I would rather our MP's spent their time a little wiser than debating whether ginger 17 year olds should be allowed to use a sunbed.

Either someone hasn't installed a mantra of "prioritise" or someone within government has very a bizarre idea of what the electorate think are important to this country.

If this were the private sector they would all have been banished 9 years ago for gross incompetence. But God bless the public sector eh, where the time is flexi and the pension is fat.

This country is fast approaching the point at which it disappears up its own bottom, and this is another example of wasting billions of pounds (on a system which ultimately won't work) which could be far better spent elsewhere.

George Orwell had it so right, he was only out by 20 years or so...
I couldn't agree more although I think that the UK disappeared up it's own backside several years ago and is now heading past the small intestine.

Look on the brightside - if we keep going as we are there is a slim possibility that we may see daylight again soon albeit from the middle of a pile of vomit on the pavement.
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      05-22-2008, 04:53 AM   #13
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Yeah, couldn't agree more that 'Big Brother' is taking over. The more IT, the greater the chance of not being able to fart going unnoticed.

I would love to pass through my colon, as oppossed to vomit, all the scum of society, then they can be flushed down into the sewers where they belong, and preferably eaten by rats and passed through yet another colon. That is the major plus side to 'Big Brother' - simple. Unfortunately those of us who are perfectly respectable have to be included in the overall scenario. Hmmmm needs some thinking about.

Last edited by beemerbird; 05-22-2008 at 06:37 AM.
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      05-22-2008, 04:59 AM   #14
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It's simple - don't let dim people or scum breed.

Dummies breed dummies and scum bags breed scum bags.

It's too late for our generation, but think of the greatness this country could achieve without the burden of a "Wayne and Waynetta" demographic.

Think of how much richer our land would be without paying out billions in dole benefits (which only go to purchase Tennets Super and Sky TV subscriptions).

Like so many others I'm sure, I'd love a crack at running this country.

Thos who want to work hard and reap the benefits would love my proposals. Those who want a free ride would hate me...
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      05-22-2008, 05:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sheps View Post
It's simple - don't let dim people or scum breed.

Dummies breed dummies and scum bags breed scum bags.

It's too late for our generation, but think of the greatness this country could achieve without the burden of a "Wayne and Waynetta" demographic.

Think of how much richer our land would be without paying out billions in dole benefits (which only go to purchase Tennets Super and Sky TV subscriptions).

Like so many others I'm sure, I'd love a crack at running this country.

Thos who want to work hard and reap the benefits would love my proposals. Those who want a free ride would hate me...
Some very valid points Sheps. Unfortunately the scum in our society are not only the 'Wayne and Waynetta' types. I'm sure between us though, we could sort things out. You can be PM though ok.
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      05-22-2008, 08:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "For a country to tax itself into propserity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself off the ground by the handle".

If your average man in the street can see that, unchecked, the current "tax everyone to death scenario" is going to break the country why cannot our (let's face it, massively overpaid) government?

I for one am sick of hearing how this government want to stick their collective nose in and further their level of control over my life. I'm being told what eat, how to eat, what to drink, what (not) to smoke, where/when I can work, how to drive/what to drive etc - the list goes on.

It wouldn't be quite so galling if we were getting good value for money and the rest of this country's problems were sorted out - but whilst grannies are being bashed in for their pensions, the NHS is pants, immigration is a joke and our education system is 20 years behind the rest of the world I would rather our MP's spent their time a little wiser than debating whether ginger 17 year olds should be allowed to use a sunbed.

Either someone hasn't installed a mantra of "prioritise" or someone within government has very a bizarre idea of what the electorate think are important to this country.

If this were the private sector they would all have been banished 9 years ago for gross incompetence. But God bless the public sector eh, where the time is flexi and the pension is fat.

This country is fast approaching the point at which it disappears up its own bottom, and this is another example of wasting billions of pounds (on a system which ultimately won't work) which could be far better spent elsewhere.

George Orwell had it so right, he was only out by 20 years or so...
+ 0.75 Good points on the whole (see below), very well made.

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However, my pension cerainly isn't fat, flexi-time isn't an option
+1
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      05-22-2008, 09:28 AM   #17
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Perhaps I should clarify my point regarding public sector;

I wasn't having a dig at all public sector employees - certainly the front line NHS employees and teaching staff deserve far greater working conditions and remuneration (to name but two deserving parties) - my gripe is with central (and to an extent non-central) government whom can give themselves 20% pay rises, despite no increase in performance, whilst telling poilcemen they can only have a 5% payrise over 3 years because the money isn't available for public sector wage rises.

I am not advocating a society without government (we would no longer be a society in that case) but I think the best thing this country could ever experience in the 21st century would be a huge reform in the way in which our government is staffed, paid and rewarded (perhaps on a performance basis).

This country needs a government which will start to represent the hopes and desires of its electorate, instead of one which thinks no further than feathering its own nest via free homes in the city, multiple incomes and 100k p/a expense accounts.

Perhaps if these fripperies were removed and the remuneration package much more 'grounded' those who applied for and won the jobs would actually care about making a difference, rather than scoring all the booty.
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      05-22-2008, 09:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by sheps View Post
Perhaps I should clarify my point regarding public sector;

I wasn't having a dig at all public sector employees - certainly the front line NHS employees and teaching staff deserve far greater working conditions and remuneration (to name but two deserving parties) - my gripe is with central (and to an extent non-central) government whom can give themselves 20% pay rises, despite no increase in performance, whilst telling poilcemen they can only have a 5% payrise over 3 years because the money isn't available for public sector wage rises.

I am not advocating a society without government (we would no longer be a society in that case) but I think the best thing this country could ever experience in the 21st century would be a huge reform in the way in which our government is staffed, paid and rewarded (perhaps on a performance basis).

This country needs a government which will start to represent the hopes and desires of its electorate, instead of one which thinks no further than feathering its own nest via free homes in the city, multiple incomes and 100k p/a expense accounts.

Perhaps if these fripperies were removed and the remuneration package much more 'grounded' those who applied for and won the jobs would actually care about making a difference, rather than scoring all the booty.

Nicely clarified. I tend to become quite defensive about the public sector and the education system in particular. I am proud to be a Deputy Head of a large and challenging inner city primary school and have recently qualified as a Headteacher, but am put off from making the move due the the constant barrage of criticism that is directed towards us and the massive accountability that exists for not much in the way of financial renumeration. (I would only make about 1.5k a year more as a Head, before tax). I therefore tend to bite quite quickly when I think someone is having a go! For some time, when people asked me what I did for a living I used to tell them that I worked in the communications business, because it was easier than answering the usual comments about too many holidays, finishing at 3.30 and doing 'women's work' Sad that I felt that way, but these days I just tell people to sod off.
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      05-22-2008, 10:00 AM   #19
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O/P refers to 'Big Brother' wiping our arses and saving us from ourselves. Will there come a point in our society where this sort of 'watching' is required. Nobody has the right to violate anyone or their human rights. Surely the young, elderly and vulnerable in society need protecting from the unscrupulous elements of society. Yes, the counter argument is that it is an invasion of everyones human rights if such an idea was implemented. Perhaps the situation has become worse since the advent of the internet and 'foreign' influences seeping into the country. Is the UK slowly losing its once moral high standing, sense of fair play and our world renowned 'sense of right and wrong' by means of our collective conscience.

There is far too much of 'as long as it isn't happening to me' attitude. Does that include our family/children? Think NOT. The judiciary/Law Society of this country should be prepared to enforce stricter policing over all aspects of crime. Forget political correctness, let forensic science tell the truth.

And some people in society complain about vigilantes - FFS, the USA thrives on it
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      05-22-2008, 10:17 AM   #20
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O/P refers to 'Big Brother' wiping our arses and saving us from ourselves. Will there come a point in our society where this sort of 'watching' is required. Nobody has the right to violate anyone or their human rights. Surely the young, elderly and vulnerable in society need protecting from the unscrupulous elements of society. Yes, the counter argument is that it is an invasion of everyones human rights if such an idea was implemented. Perhaps the situation has become worse since the advent of the internet and 'foreign' influences seeping into the country. Is the UK slowly losing its once moral high standing, sense of fair play and our world renowned 'sense of right and wrong' by means of our collective conscience.

There is far too much of 'as long as it isn't happening to me' attitude. Does that include our family/children? Think NOT. The judiciary/Law Society of this country should be prepared to enforce stricter policing over all aspects of crime. Forget political correctness, let forensic science tell the truth.

And some people in society complain about vigilantes - FFS, the USA thrives on it
Think we're in agreement about most things you're saying BB. I certainly believe that if you haven't got anything to hide, then there should be no fear of being watched. I also agree that the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude that you allude to is becoming more and more prevelant.

However, I do object to the apparent need for central government, the EU and associated bodies to tell us how to behave, what we should be eating/drinking/ not eating/drinking etc. etc. (The arse wiping culture, as you so elegantly put it! ) At what point does such advice become restrictive of individuality? A huge philosophical and moral debate!

Too often I encounter a total abdication of responsibility by parents who think that everything should be done for them. The more the state intervenes, the more they lose any sense of independence. I have kids who arrive at school needing first aid treatment because it's easier than taking them to a doctor. We end up providing advice on all sorts of things unrelated to education, because many of our parents can't be arsed to find out things for themselves. They're too used to being told what to do...and then ignoring it.

Anyway, I'm off now to a meeting about sustainable schools and becoming the hub of the community. Can't wait.
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