E90Post
 


Bimmer Retrofit
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Off-Topic Discussions > Digital SLR Advice



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-17-2008, 11:52 AM   #67
NFS
Major General
NFS's Avatar
United Kingdom
112
Rep
9,216
Posts

 
Drives: 335i m-sport LCI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanJT View Post
Faffing around in the garden last night.
Nice shots Nathan, did you use a Macro lens or extension tubes?

Some of our latest efforts:
Attached Images
   
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2008, 04:46 PM   #68
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

I think it was Gizze who said earlier, you can reduce the number of photos you take, yet increase the percentage of keepers, and in principle that's definitely true. I have owned a digital SLR for a few years, and I definitely have ambivalent feelings about it. On one hand it's great and - the other side of teh coin from Gizze's point here - I have lots of digital photos that would never have been taken if I was conserving film (or watching my RAW count). ANd I've had wildly mixed results, which means some good ones and loads of cr*ppy ones.

But a lot of people are 'getting into photography' now from the digital side and they get way, way too into the technology - the megapixel wars and frames-per-second one-upmanship and photography magazines with useless, stupid, misleading performance charts. Get on ebay, buy yourself a nice old film SLR, for very little outlay you can get a camera like, say, a Nikon F3which, 20 years or so ago, was too expensive for all but the richest amateurs. It will still function perfectly today, it's a design classic, and you will also be able to buy a range of cheap lenses for it which will blow away the plastic rubbish that gets bundled with digital SLR kits.

And it will outperform, resolution-wise, all but the most expensive digitals, not that that matters. Bung in a roll of proper quality slide film, Fuji Velvia is great for example, and you will get rich colours that you will struggle to replicate in Photoshop.

That's my 2 cents, just an opinion, no flames please. I enjoy aspects of both digital and film photography, I just get sad sometimes when people forget about the latter.

Appreciate 0
      06-17-2008, 04:52 PM   #69
Porscha!
Should be on www.retrorides.com
United Kingdom
41
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche 944
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Derbyshire

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Very interesting!

Though how do you share film photography? I actually quite like it, it reminds me of when I was little taking pics then taking the film to the camera shop to be processed and wondering how it would come out (think there were digital cameras about but we couldn't afford one) I always enjoyed photography as I've always been creative, was allowed to play with a camera but not with paint 'cos I lived in a hotel!!
__________________
"FIRE UP THA PORRSCHAAH" - The 80's are back!

Front Engined Porsche
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2008, 05:11 PM   #70
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Very interesting!

Though how do you share film photography? I actually quite like it, it reminds me of when I was little taking pics then taking the film to the camera shop to be processed and wondering how it would come out (think there were digital cameras about but we couldn't afford one) I always enjoyed photography as I've always been creative, was allowed to play with a camera but not with paint 'cos I lived in a hotel!!
What I wish someone had told me when I was young and having a go at photography was: Use Slide Film.

To answer your question, of course it's more laborious to share film. (Or at least, it's more difficult to share film digitally. You could always invite your mates round for a slide show.) Probably teh easiest way to make film photos available on teh internet - if not the cheapest - is to send the roll(s) of film off to somewhere like Peak Imaging in Sheffield, and get them to send you back a box of transparencies plus a CD with professional scans of all the slides. Or you can have a go at scanning them yourself, either with a dedicated slide scanner (quite expensive) or a slide adapter for a flatbed scanner (not as high quailty but still worth a go).

Depends on how much photography you're planning on doing. If you want to take loads and loads of snapshots, forget about film, but instead of a digital SLR you could consider one of the non-SLR digitals. I have a Canon IXUS which is excellent, for example. Not trying to sway you away from a digital SLR, of course, after all I also have one of those! Mine is now quite antiquated as the technology moves so fast, it's a Nikon D70, only a humble 6 megapixels, but you can get some great results, particularly if you 'fill the frame' with one strong subject, eg. someone's face, rather than, say, a landscape shot, which is where a lot more skill is needed to transcend the limitations and eccentricities of digital.

Digital is really good for doing special effects stuff, because you can experiment and experiment and it costs nothing to take another shot, and you get instant feedback so you can make adjustments and keep going. But in a lot of ways the strengths of digital - like instant feedback - are also its greatest weaknesses. Digital takes a lot of the fun and sense of achievement out of film photography. Arguably! And using film feels much more organic. You also tend to slow down, take less shots, take more care over each shot, and so get better results. Maybe!
Appreciate 0
      06-17-2008, 05:28 PM   #71
Porscha!
Should be on www.retrorides.com
United Kingdom
41
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche 944
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Derbyshire

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Thanks for the advice, I have a DSLR - a Nikon D40 with "only" 6megapixels but it is fine for me, I am told the pixel size is bigger than on a compact camera??

I also have a compact digital camera too! For nights out pictures!!

If I saw a film SLR come up for the right price I will no doubt give it a go, sounds interesting and I would enjoy experimenting

Can you buy lens that are interchangeable from Film SLR to DSLR? Or it that not possible?!
__________________
"FIRE UP THA PORRSCHAAH" - The 80's are back!

Front Engined Porsche
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 02:34 AM   #72
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Thanks for the advice, I have a DSLR - a Nikon D40 with "only" 6megapixels but it is fine for me, I am told the pixel size is bigger than on a compact camera??
Yeah, it's not (just) the amount of megapixels, it's how big each megapixel is. That's what confuses people into thinking that an 'Eight Megapixel' compact is 'better' than a 6 megapixel D-SLR.

I strongly recommend getting yourself an old film camera, there are loads and loads of beautiful old examples available on ebay, I have bought quite a few cameras, lenses etc. on ebay and only ever had one bad experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Can you buy lens that are interchangeable from Film SLR to DSLR? Or it that not possible?!
The short answer is: yes, but.... You can use an old Nikon lens on a D-SLR but you have to factor in the fact that your D-SLR's sensor will be physically smaller than the piece of film (roughly 35 mm wide) that film cameras used. So, there is a 'cropping' which means, among other things, that an old Nikon wide-angle 20mm lens will not be so wide angle on your D-SLR. Depending on the 'crop factor' (ie how much smaller your sensor is than full 35mm), the focal length ofthat lens could, when used with your Nikon D40, be something more like 35mm. Of course, you could get round this by buying a 'full frame D-SLR' such as the Nikon D3, but these cost serious money, like 2.5K. This will change with time of course, and probably one day kids wil marvel at our fogeyish tales of less-than-full-frame sensor sizes.

Another major factor is teh risk of dust getting onto your sensor when you change lenses. This can be a real pain and unless you have one of the newer models, with inbuilt mechanisms to combat dust, you can change lenses a few times (even being careful) and find yourself getting any number of nasty black spots in the same places in every single photo. Not nice.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 02:39 AM   #73
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Ken Rockwell

For anyone who's interested in photography, digital and/or film, I highly recommend Ken Rockwell's site, it's jammed with great advice, both technical and theoretical, and he talks a lot of sense, particularly about not getting hung up on technical matters but concentrating on taking good photos:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm

Yes, he is opinionated, and heavily slanted towards Nikon, but he really knows his onions and is refreshingly honest about it all. Try his article 'Why Your Camera Doesn't Matter' or his 'Recommended Cameras' section.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 04:40 AM   #74
NathanJT
Techie Geek
NathanJT's Avatar
England
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 330d M Sport Manual
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Derby, UK

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to NathanJT
Some great advice from FieldingMellish.

I have to agree that I prefer to get it right first time in camera as opposed to just clicking away. This is only because I learnt a lot of what I know from my dad who was a semi-pro photographer, and back then it was all film and chemicals

The only real problem with the "clicking away" method is that it's very hard to actually work out what you're doing wrong that way. Obviously it costs nothing and that's a great thing, but I think that also means people take less time to understand why a particular shot does or doesn't work.
__________________
330d M-Sport | Sapphire Black | Black Dakota | Nav Pro | iDrive | Bluetooth | PDC | Xenons | Hot Seats | Tracker | Blacklines

Last edited by NathanJT; 06-18-2008 at 05:03 AM. Reason: typo
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 04:41 AM   #75
NathanJT
Techie Geek
NathanJT's Avatar
England
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 330d M Sport Manual
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Derby, UK

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to NathanJT
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
Nice shots Nathan, did you use a Macro lens or extension tubes?
Tamron 90mm Macro.

On that last picture have you got a circular polariser on?
__________________
330d M-Sport | Sapphire Black | Black Dakota | Nav Pro | iDrive | Bluetooth | PDC | Xenons | Hot Seats | Tracker | Blacklines

Last edited by NathanJT; 06-18-2008 at 05:02 AM.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 08:41 AM   #76
NFS
Major General
NFS's Avatar
United Kingdom
112
Rep
9,216
Posts

 
Drives: 335i m-sport LCI
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanJT View Post
Tamron 90mm Macro.

On that last picture have you got a circular polariser on?
Nope. I don't have any filters yet.

I was sitting on the grass opposite the house you can see in the photo's and wanted to capture what I was seeing. I took several shots, but unfortunately those exposed for the sky ended up with the buildings in shadow and vice versa.

To save the shot I just selected the buildings and the large tree on the right and used the shadows / highlights adjustment on Photoshop CS2. Took a few attempts to make it work as initially I also selected the grass, which didn't look right with the shadows dropped back.

I guess with film that it might simply not have been possible to get this shot.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 08:51 AM   #77
NathanJT
Techie Geek
NathanJT's Avatar
England
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 330d M Sport Manual
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Derby, UK

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to NathanJT
Polariser and and ND grad (but then you'd of lost the majority of the tree as well).
__________________
330d M-Sport | Sapphire Black | Black Dakota | Nav Pro | iDrive | Bluetooth | PDC | Xenons | Hot Seats | Tracker | Blacklines
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 10:04 AM   #78
GarryF
First Lieutenant
GarryF's Avatar
United Kingdom
4
Rep
309
Posts

 
Drives: SSII E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

HDR is sometimes an option, I have one of the modes on the 40D set for bracketing and can do it hand held, not to everyones tastes though



__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 10:51 AM   #79
gIzzE
Major General
gIzzE's Avatar
United Kingdom
71
Rep
5,164
Posts

 
Drives: Mercedes ML, F25 X3 and 2.8i Z
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norfolk, UK.

iTrader: (2)

I like HDR stuff and I love it best with pics like the 2nd one above, some of them on the forums do make me laugh though.
Really like that one above though, I would crop the top and bottom off more and print that as a really wide panoramic shot.

I think people worry about things too much with photography and in some ways I blame SLR's and digital, I personally don't mind if a pic is out of focus slightly, or has loads of iso noise in there, it is the pic itself that matters.
Some of my favourite pics from professioanal photgraphers often don't have the sharpness you would expect to see, but they still work as entertaining pictures.

Also a compact can be good if you learn its strengths and weakness'. This is a panasonic LX2, crap in low light but set it to under expose a bit and it suddenly works....



This is a Leica, which is riddled with noise at higher isos, and I am talking as low as iso800, but you can get it to work for you to add something to the picture.....



And the Leica again, I do take pics of strange things......



And this is the Leica with an F/1.4 summilux lens at iso200, clean as a whistle....





This pic was out of focus, but I liked it, so using Alien Skins Film simulator plug in it became something that was printable as it didn't need to be perfect.



I will post up a couple of pics of the Canon 400d with the 28mm f/1.8 USM lens later as I have been blown away by that combo. For a small lightweight slr set up it really is nice image wise, the colours have a really nice feel to them. The Nikon D300 got the sack when I got that lens, I really am that impressed with it. As soon as the 6D or whatever it is called is released I will swap for that, but for now I am more than happy with the little 400d.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 11:02 AM   #80
Porscha!
Should be on www.retrorides.com
United Kingdom
41
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: Porsche 944
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Derbyshire

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Love that street scene but I do like very odd photos lol! Tres cool

Also think that one with the dog in is well funny not technically brilliant but I like it!!
__________________
"FIRE UP THA PORRSCHAAH" - The 80's are back!

Front Engined Porsche
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 11:12 AM   #81
gIzzE
Major General
gIzzE's Avatar
United Kingdom
71
Rep
5,164
Posts

 
Drives: Mercedes ML, F25 X3 and 2.8i Z
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norfolk, UK.

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Love that street scene but I do like very odd photos lol! Tres cool

Also think that one with the dog in is well funny not technically brilliant but I like it!!
Exactly, pics don't have to be in focus, or exactly the right lighting etc. for them to work.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 11:45 AM   #82
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Geez Gizze, you don't half have some gear! Those look like they were taken with quite a pricey camera, the b&W Leica ones. Hmmm, I wonder if anybody will buy me a Leica digital for my birthday. NOte to self: update Amazon wishlist....

I like the colours on the LX one too. Underexposure can work really well.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 12:23 PM   #83
gIzzE
Major General
gIzzE's Avatar
United Kingdom
71
Rep
5,164
Posts

 
Drives: Mercedes ML, F25 X3 and 2.8i Z
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norfolk, UK.

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Love that street scene but I do like very odd photos lol! Tres cool
It just caught my eye, I thought that is the last place I would want to be going down in a wheel chair, couldn't see where it was leading and it felt a little spooky!


That Leica was only a Digilux 3 slr using the four thirds system. I actually sold it recently along with my Nikon D300 and the lens and my Fuji F30, Panny LX2 and Leica C-Lux 3 to help pay for an M8 rangefinder with a nice f/1.4 lens.
However with the CEO getting the sack at Leica, and no one really knowing if the M8 was going to get a full frame update or whether it was being replaced it didn't seem like the right time to be dropping that sort of money down (3500) on a camera and one prime lens.

So for now I am holding on, and think I will get the replacement for the 5D, there is a talk of a 6D, full frame and around 12m pixels, which would be just the ticket.
If Leica do announce an M9 at Photokina then I may go for it, but depends on the price.



He is a pic from the 400d with the 28mm prime, I just love the colours from it....



And even with black and white I don't feel it needs correcting temp wise etc.



They will get touched up, cropped and finished in photoshop but thought I would post them anyway.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 05:21 PM   #84
SoYank
Major General
SoYank's Avatar
United_States
88
Rep
7,504
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 335i MT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brighton, Colorado

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Send a message via Yahoo to SoYank Send a message via Skype™ to SoYank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porscha! View Post
Thanks for the advice, I have a DSLR - a Nikon D40 with "only" 6megapixels but it is fine for me, I am told the pixel size is bigger than on a compact camera??

I also have a compact digital camera too! For nights out pictures!!

If I saw a film SLR come up for the right price I will no doubt give it a go, sounds interesting and I would enjoy experimenting

Can you buy lens that are interchangeable from Film SLR to DSLR? Or it that not possible?!
I have a Nikon F100 and a D100 and my whole menagerie of lenses works with both. I'm thinking of getting a D300 next month.
__________________
2009 E90 335i Montego Blue Black Leather Burl Walnut 6MT US Spec
SatNav ZPP ZCW 6FL TPMS iDrive PDC HWS Xenons BMW Assist Power Rear Sunshade Logic 7
European Taillights Rear Foglamp OEM Alarm PicoTray DataToys XM-DVR Multi-view Processor
Quaife ATB LSD Short Shift Knob Hartge Anti-Roll Bars AP Racing Front Brakes 19" Style 269
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 05:25 PM   #85
gIzzE
Major General
gIzzE's Avatar
United Kingdom
71
Rep
5,164
Posts

 
Drives: Mercedes ML, F25 X3 and 2.8i Z
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Norfolk, UK.

iTrader: (2)

Isn't the D300x being announced at Photokina??
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2008, 05:32 PM   #86
SoYank
Major General
SoYank's Avatar
United_States
88
Rep
7,504
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 335i MT
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Brighton, Colorado

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Send a message via Yahoo to SoYank Send a message via Skype™ to SoYank
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieldingMellish View Post
The short answer is: yes, but.... You can use an old Nikon lens on a D-SLR but you have to factor in the fact that your D-SLR's sensor will be physically smaller than the piece of film (roughly 35 mm wide) that film cameras used. So, there is a 'cropping' which means, among other things, that an old Nikon wide-angle 20mm lens will not be so wide angle on your D-SLR. Depending on the 'crop factor' (ie how much smaller your sensor is than full 35mm), the focal length ofthat lens could, when used with your Nikon D40, be something more like 35mm. Of course, you could get round this by buying a 'full frame D-SLR' such as the Nikon D3, but these cost serious money, like 2.5K. This will change with time of course, and probably one day kids wil marvel at our fogeyish tales of less-than-full-frame sensor sizes.

Another major factor is teh risk of dust getting onto your sensor when you change lenses. This can be a real pain and unless you have one of the newer models, with inbuilt mechanisms to combat dust, you can change lenses a few times (even being careful) and find yourself getting any number of nasty black spots in the same places in every single photo. Not nice.
Not all lenses will work fully with all bodies, though. For example, with my Nikon if I coupled a lens that was fairly old and without the electronic feedback, the body won't be able to do proper metering and may not be able to autofocus.

I took photos of a cheetah in Africa and for some reason, no matter how carefully I cleaned my gear, the spots were always in the same place. The same thing happens on the leopards, too.
__________________
2009 E90 335i Montego Blue Black Leather Burl Walnut 6MT US Spec
SatNav ZPP ZCW 6FL TPMS iDrive PDC HWS Xenons BMW Assist Power Rear Sunshade Logic 7
European Taillights Rear Foglamp OEM Alarm PicoTray DataToys XM-DVR Multi-view Processor
Quaife ATB LSD Short Shift Knob Hartge Anti-Roll Bars AP Racing Front Brakes 19" Style 269
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2008, 06:55 AM   #87
FieldingMellish
Captain
FieldingMellish's Avatar
24
Rep
832
Posts

 
Drives: 330i M Sport auto saloon
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Manchester

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoYank View Post
Not all lenses will work fully with all bodies, though. For example, with my Nikon if I coupled a lens that was fairly old and without the electronic feedback, the body won't be able to do proper metering and may not be able to autofocus.

I took photos of a cheetah in Africa and for some reason, no matter how carefully I cleaned my gear, the spots were always in the same place. The same thing happens on the leopards, too.
Oh yeah, absolutely. All my post covered was one part of one particular aspect of teh matter! To be fair, some old lenses won't give you a problem with metering, it depends on the camera for one thing - if the metering is done on the body then you're probably ok.

With the money you'll spend kitting yourself out with a decent D-SLR and a couple of digital lenses, you could buy an old manual focus film camera, and an old auto-focus film camera, and a couple of lenses for each! But then you'll have to pay for film and processing of course.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST