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      06-03-2006, 01:34 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blke90man
It's true though. If you are going to give sound advice, especially if you are a lawyer, at least have the decency to use proper grammar. There is no reason for someone who is highly educated to write like a 12 yr old.
sorry, did i mention that i am a lawyer? i just have a private business lawyer work for the company, so he can take care the things.
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      06-03-2006, 01:41 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18LLC
sorry, did i mention that i am a lawyer? i just have a private business lawyer work for the company, so he can take care the things.
ok, come again? i have high respect for lawyers but i have no idea what you just said.
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      06-03-2006, 01:41 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18LLC
sorry, i didn't said i am a lawyer, i just have a private business lawyer work for the company..
wow, at least this guys taking my mind off the BS.
Are you sure you name isn't weweaholic? lol
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      06-03-2006, 01:52 AM   #158
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      06-03-2006, 02:01 AM   #159
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Hey guys... after reading only halfway through this thread... it's time for me to chime in. I don't want to take sides... and nobody really should. There really are (as mentioned many times already) two sides to this story. But whatever happened has already happened --there's not much that can be done now except for both parties to compromise and come to a solution.

I would suggest, to save both parties money... (since they've already offered to swap the part) is for Eisenhaus to offer Long an advance swap --meaning they ship Long a replacement exhaust system that he can swap out and then send back the questionable item. Then there will be no need to weld on the stock muffler... just weld on the new part when it arrives and send back the old part. My company does this fairly frequently, usually with a deposit on the higher ticket items. Eisenhaus should cover shipping both ways, and Long should cover any installation costs. This might not seem too fair if you're siding with Long, but I would just chalk it up as an additional cost of getting a prototype system.

Anyway, I won't judge, nor take sides... and I suggest that we all put this behind us and forget it happened --it's really a private matter to be settled between Long and Eisenhaus. None of us know the whole story. Hopefully both sides can come to some kind of amicable solution --I hate to see this kind of stuff on our wonderful forum... especially between two respected parties such as Long and Ryan/Eisenhaus. Good luck figuring it out --both of you.
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      06-03-2006, 02:32 AM   #160
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Iíve learned that one should never pass judgment w/o hearing all the facts, so I wonít get too involved in the meat of this debate.

I do however support certain comments made on both of the opposing sides.

I think its bad practice to call someone out or in this case, a company in an open public forum. Since your post (Long) was one sided, your comments are extremely defamatory to Eisenhaus. What is worse is that you didnít care to mention Eisenhausí attempt to rectify the situation, ie giving you a full refund. After gaining that insight from other forum members, Iíve lost a lot of respect for the E90 guru that you are. Iíve often purchased products that Iím not 100% satisfied with and more times then that, a total refund is usually out of the question. If you were so dissatisfied, why didnít you just return it? I understand that you spent some money to get it installed (probably wanted some monetary compensation for that), but shouldnít you just chuck that up to experience and move on? Personally, if I was so adamant on pointing out how horrible the Eisenhaus muffler is (talks of having the forum boycott the vendor), I wouldnít want it within a yard of my car, even if it was free.

On the other hand, I do agree that you should expect a high quality piece that has perfect fitment for a muffler that costs more then $1K. Thatís just an insane price first off for a non cat-back that has a mock looking right side. But anyways, since the Eisenhaus muffler is not a prototype, I would expect more from it. It is responsibility of the company to do their best in terms of ensuring the muffler satisfies its claims (ie OEM fitment, real working dual muffler, etc.)

Lastly, screw the stupid saying that the "customer is always right." Thatís a dumb adage that went out the door some 40 yrs ago when times were still warm, fuzzy, and neighbors talked to each other. I believe people have to treat each other with a certain level of respect. Personally, I will not tolerate any of my clients giving me crap or dare they, insult me. When that customer crosses that line, s/he loses my respect and my desire to really hear her/him out. You can never really satisfy an irate unreasonable customer, period.
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      06-03-2006, 04:24 AM   #161
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I would like to think the purpose of reducing the price of an early production system, is to compensate for promotion of said product. Not, to accept and tolerate a used/poor quality item. Waiting 3 weeks to address this issue is generally not acceptable, regardless of initial intentions. I believe this was the biggest fault in this arrangement, and many things could have been avoided.

I understand that a business cannot just send dissatisfied customers cash as compensation for problems with any product. However, as a company...if you stand by the quality of your products, you should have no problems sending the customer a replacement item, while covering the cost of all shipment. Asking the customer to return the item first (in this case, making the vehicle inoperable--unless further modified at their own expense) is just plain insulting. As a consumer, this attitude conveys lack of understanding regarding the problem at hand, and lack of willingness to accommodate for a reasonable solution. This is clearly from a failure to listen to your customer. If you listen to what the problem actually is...then you can create a reasonable arrangement. If you wait and rely for the customer to create a solution, clearly...they will just want to be compensated for their problem. ANYONE would want this. I believe this was the second biggest mistake made in this arrangement.

I understand and agree with your position on blackmail regarding customers. Yes, customers can be a PITA by citing "customers are always right". Bottom line is....they should be, but only when within reason. I would caution the use of the term blackmail in this situation. A customer asking for a reasonable solution to a problem with a product...or threatening to tell others of their dissatisfaction is not blackmail. It is just voicing their dissatisfaction to other individuals in a forum that is utilized to exchange information between consumers that have a common interest. I cannot comment as to whether blackmail was actually intended or not in this situation, as I was not privy to the convos...or whether this was just another big misunderstanding due to lack of appropriate communication.

I applaud Long for trying to wait 3 weeks before expressing his frustration, in efforts to work this out privately. However, this might have been a mistake...as it seems now, that they respond very quickly to this kind of communication. Had you posted your dissatisfaction right way...they might have tried to fix things for you some time ago....before these unfortunate events transpired. Waiting to address a problem can only create further frustration, and mistrust on both sides.

I was not in the market to purchase a quad exhaust system at this time. However, now I know to ask more questions and do more research before making any type purchases/arrangements for one in the future. I value customer service. I expect to be treated with a certain level of professionalism regardless of whether I am a full paying customer, or not.

Good luck to all.
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      06-03-2006, 10:03 AM   #162
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lol this thread has moved from long vs eisenhaus to members vs members, so entertaining!
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      06-03-2006, 10:40 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18LLC
sorry, did i mention that i am a lawyer? i just have a private business lawyer work for the company, so he can take care the things.
Pardon? What are you trying to tell us?
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      06-03-2006, 10:49 AM   #164
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whoa this thread has turned into... a huge.. thing.

but uh. I love how companies just say "send it back". Its F**king ridiculous. Especially for something big. "Send it back, we'll take a look at it". well if its the product that went sour, then they should cover every single fee related to it.

Im not standing up for long, but he is a reasonable man. While I also trust every single things that Ryan/Chitown said, you look at this from a customer's stand point, its frustrating for the customer. If you have been in a situation where you were very dissatisfied with a product and all company is telling you is what you can't/don't want to do, and realized everything went south, you WILL understand.

Calling it a blackmail is just PLAIN LAME. Customer is unsatisfied, then the company better make sure somehow they are satisfied in the way they want it. If you look at VERY reputational companies, they truly stand up for the product and take every possible measures to make sure the customer is fully satisfied. There was a case with a company where the actual CEO of the company flew from california to east coast to take a look at the customer's car who wasn't satisfied with the product they sold. THATS customer service. Im not saying every customer should expect this, but if you are about to call something "Blackmail", you better have a VERY reasonable claim to say so. Which in this case, its quite stupid to call it a "blackmail".

Honestly, me being the unlucky guy in this world who got ripped off by companies/sellers alot, I can see this whole thing and relate to few of my situations.

1. Customer is stressed out, couldn't work it out with the company and finally say it over the web.
2. every feels bad for him. talk crap about the seller/company.
3. Company/Representative chimes in, say some sugar-coated talk and act so damn professional.
4. everyone now agree with whatever the company says. The customer is now screwed.

If the customer is unsatisfied, and its for valid reasons(not the customer's fault), then do whatever the F... you can to satisfy the customer. Thats how it really should be. Then again, world was never that pretty, it still isn't, and it won't be.

I really hope long can cool down a little, be flexible and work it out with the company.
I also hope the company can stand up and back up their products, make sure the customer is satisfied.

Good luck to you all.
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      06-03-2006, 10:50 AM   #165
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I agree with all you that said customer is NOT always right. The people who say "doesn't matter man, customer is always right" usually are the hardest-to-please customers. Magmd put it the best, "customer is always right....within reason"
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      06-03-2006, 10:51 AM   #166
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I think she's saying that she's not a lawyer herself, but has a lawyer on staff working at her company, so she asked the lawyer for legal advice and such
just my guess
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpira
Pardon? What are you trying to tell us?
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      06-03-2006, 11:10 AM   #167
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I have not read thru every post, but has this been requested: That we get the feedback on Eisenhaus from any of their previous customers? If, others have as many problems as Long is saying, then we can perhaps make a more reasonable judgement....

What do you say, Eisenhaus customers, post your experience with Eisenhaus:

I have created a link in the Vendor Reviews section, please post your review ONLY if you have actually purchased fromt his company here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...143#post305143

Thank you.
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      06-03-2006, 11:27 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tl_boy
I normally wouldn't enter the drama, but i just wanted to say that i think that Long's fan club (a label created by themselves) should give a chance to look at the other situation. I know most of you are local to Long's area, and are of similar ethnic backgrounds, and Long has personally helped you out installing this, or fixing that (and you feel certain obligations or loyalty) but that doesn't warrant blind support. I agree with the fact that this being a prototype and Long getting a price break for his "marketing" of the product (marketing means going to a meet? well then Hunter should get a discount because if i recall, he was the first to get a certain Eisenmann product too - i doubt he got that, there are countless other examples of 'firsts' for the E90 - ITS A NEW CAR, they don't all get discounts). Being a guinea pig of sorts you take the risks, but the counter to those risks are the benefits - in this case pricing, and the respect and benefit of being 'the first.' As with many products, they mature over time, its not wise to always be the first, but Long took that chance. Is this a product problem, i cant say. Is it an installation problem, we can't say that either. But what we can do is at least give a chance to the other party, and hear their side. Thats what is just. I think we should let this sort out on its own before we call for boycotts of Eisenmann. A lot of this has been said before, but i think the fact that the heat is still on, i would hope that my post would be another request for more balanced view points.
You are making assumptions about a person you don't even know. Long is an individual who always puts others before himself, and not only in this community.

Its Hunters fault if he didnít get a discount for being the first to have a product on his car. Don't be mad Ďcause he paid full price and long didnít.
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      06-03-2006, 12:01 PM   #169
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It seems that there are two types of posters emerging on this topic. 1) Long's supporter and 2) other people trying to decide what is going on by listening to both sides.

I would like to repeat that I see valid arguments coming from both Long and Eisemann, and I respect both. I think that Tl boy's suggestion is valid in gathering feedbacks from other Eisemann customers to get a more balanced view.
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      06-03-2006, 12:03 PM   #170
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c'mon diesel, I know you to be a very respectable and sensible member on this forum, there's no need to rub salt in the wound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel007
Its Hunters fault if he didnít get a discount for being the first to have a product on his car. Don't be mad Ďcause he paid full price and long didnít.
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      06-03-2006, 12:08 PM   #171
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"You are making assumptions about a person you don't even know."

I think your response above can easily be applied to Long's side as well. Would I be incorrect in stating this?


"Long is an individual who always puts others before himself, and not only in this community. "

In this community, I gather you are referring to the Cal E90 owner community, because i can't recall what he has done for me, or other E90 members from other parts of the world lately. I know he conceived PMB, but he isn't sharing how to do it, he is charging for it (which he is completely entitled to do - but its not charity work so that can't count is what i'm saying). If he has done other things, for non-Cal E90 members, please do tell, I could be wrong.

"Its Hunters fault if he didnít get a discount for being the first to have a product on his car. Don't be mad Ďcause he paid full price and long didnít. "

Its not a question of fault or not, no one is mad, I'm just saying there are countless examples of people being the first to get things, they have to contend with problems that can arise in a new product, and if they haggle down a price, they have to understand that it cuts into the profit margin of the company, I can guarantee you that if Long returns that product, they are taking a loss on this particular sale. Even if he doesn't they've already incurred losses due to the character assasination of the company.


Diesel, I have no issues with you, or Longtran or Ryan, and again, for the record, I am just asking for a more balanced viewpoint on this subject. I don't want E90 members to be split on this. This issue should not be a cause for dissention within our group, let a resolution come to this issue, then let us take sides and voice our opinions on what we think was right or wrong. I would still advise Eisenhaus members, with both good AND bad experiences (including Long), to post it in the Vendors Review section.
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      06-03-2006, 12:15 PM   #172
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long is not a friend of mine and i am not part of his "fan club". also i dont know him. (this in answer to tl_boy.)
still i support him, and after reading all posts again, even more.

calling what long asked for a blackmail is truely a lame. (on this i agree fully with lux.sh).

also i think what was stated by lumbergh (that eisenmann handled this horribly) is true, too.

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      06-03-2006, 12:19 PM   #173
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Well, I've been away for a couple of days and came back to this thread. Despite the touchy subject at issue, I'm proud to see that this thread for the most part has remained a civil discussion.

to our members.
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      06-03-2006, 12:35 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklion
c'mon diesel, I know you to be a very respectable and sensible member on this forum, there's no need to rub salt in the wound.
. Sensible...don't know about that. No I am not trying to hate but it's like this:

If a company wants to represent themselves by introducing a new Breakthrough mod to the e90 community it is their responsibility to make that product perfect right? Whether he got a discount or got a free bee thatís beside the point, the customer and in this case "partial representative" of the company was unhappy for 3 weeks with no result. Many of U would have not allotted that much time for them to correct their mistake. He gave them for warning and they dropped the ball, it's not acceptable.
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      06-03-2006, 12:36 PM   #175
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Whoever posted that "you shouldn't be bad-mouthing companies" - and why can't we? Is that considered slander/libel? Should we sympathize for companies and never badmouth them because they may very well lose business? Absurd.

Oh, wait, what's this popular website: www.resellerratings.com ? Wow, why do people frequent that site before making online purchases and do peoples' opinions count? Oh, they sure do.

The only point I agreed with Long is the 3-week hiatus in customer support - and only that point. There is absolutely no excuse for Eisen to delay the wait for that long before attempting to rectify the issues at hand. I don't care that Eisenhauss offerred a full refund - too late for that; it's been a whopping 3 weeks. Now, who wants to deal with a company with this kind of customer support? Me, for one. So the damage is done and the damage is legitimate. Long has the right to let others know he waited 3 weeks.

If companies want good business, they'll pamper the customers. Happy customers will give happy praises, disgruntled ones will spread his poor experience like wildfire. Smart companies will even try to appease disgruntled ones, whether they feel they're doing wrong or not.
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      06-03-2006, 12:44 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tl_boy
I normally wouldn't enter the drama, but i just wanted to say that i think that Long's fan club (a label created by themselves) should give a chance to look at the other situation. I know most of you are local to Long's area, and are of similar ethnic backgrounds, and Long has personally helped you out installing this, or fixing that (and you feel certain obligations or loyalty) but that doesn't warrant blind support.
IMO, I think the issue is not LONG versus Company. It's CUSTOMER versus Company. A popularity contest? C'mon fellas....

By the way Miguel, why is it you doctors are always so damn eloquent?
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