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      08-30-2008, 01:40 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
Actually I like the Italian food in the US much better then the Italian food when I went to Italy

But I get your point.
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      08-30-2008, 02:01 AM   #68
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Wow, way to have faith in the American workforce. I swear, some of you are really effing snobby.

Edit: No, that wasn't strong enough. What I meant to say is that some of you make me fucking sick.
let me get you a barf bag...


- I for one like the fact that my car was made in Germany by Germans. Not something I would base a buying decision on, but nice none the less.
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      08-30-2008, 06:22 AM   #69
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Yup, there goes BMW... good I have another reason to move on to Porsches
After watching that NatGeo HD documentary on the SC plant, you better believe it (how an X5 can be 70k is beyond me). Though some of them (Boxster) are made in Finland? I remember my buddy going through that with a Boxster S.
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      08-30-2008, 06:29 AM   #70
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The question is whether some of the savings will be transferred to the consumer.
That's not the idea behind building them in the US. Do you mean an X5 would cost 80k if made in Germany? There are no savings to be transferred to a US consumer. We're paying them 50k in USD. I bought my car in 12/06, let's say the price today is about the same as it was back then.

The dollar has lost about 10.5% of its value since then, yet you are paying them with those $. Today, you get bigger discounts (I only got $1700, what do you get today, 4k because the cars can't sell?), and 0.9% financing. BMW is bleeding, what more can they pass on?
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      08-30-2008, 07:50 AM   #71
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So hardly anyone has made a intelligent statement regarding this issue. First off the BMW E36 3 Series was built in the Spartanburg plant for two years along side the Z3. The X5 has solely been produced in the Spartanburg plant for worldwide distribution. Mass production auto manufacturing is like all other manufacturing; it is an engineered process, and the quality of the manufacturing process and quality of the finished automobile is highly dependent upon the quality (and cost) of the engineering that designs the process.

The US, because of the low cost of the dollar, is fast becoming a low-cost manufacturing center. BMW is just like any other business where the goal is to achieve "maximum profit" don't try and kid yourself that it has some "passion" to build the greatest cars in the world or some crap like that. A good product sells well, and the objective is to make a profit on the activity of selling it. The 3 series is BMW most popular selling car, so the more profit it can make on a unit basis means the more profit the company makes (for its shareholders).

Most auto manufacturing is based on system-component manufacturing, and little is based on company-proprietary processes. There are entire sub-industries that supply BMW, GM, Hyundai, Ford, ect. with manifesting equipment and processes that produce automobiles. The qualifications of the labor force has little to do with the quality of the car. The labor is part of the engineered process of manufacturing (and is the highest variability), the idea has been for last 100 years of mass produced automobiles to define each manufacturing job to the lowest (easiest) skill set possible so that it has the highest affect on build quality and lowest affect on cost.

Henry Ford pretty much developed and matured the process, and was quite successful at it. His employees were actually the highest paid in the industry (and the last to be unionized). Back in the day, Ford workers were paid an average of $5.00/day, compared to most of the other manufacturers at $2.50/day. Ford's manufacturing process allowed for the high wages because his unit production costs were a lot lower, allowing him to build more and sell more cars thus amortizing the cost of overhead over a larger product base.

The same is true today. The place where your car is built really doesn't matter, as much as the engineered process and the ability of the manufacturer to control costs.

Accept it.
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      08-30-2008, 08:12 AM   #72
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Besides being designed in Germany, you might be interested to know that much, if not all, of the manufacturing equipment is built in Germany using German (or European if German is not available) and then shipped here. Even test and QC equipment is generally German. About the only thing not German are some of the employees.

We sell some force sensors and data acquisition system to the plant and know of the difficulties in getting domestic equipment in there. What we sell them is actually Swiss but is as close to German as could be had.
My father in law works for Exide and they are apparently building some batteries for BMW now. They currently source most of this particular battery from Italy I guess.

What I found very funny was BMW insisting upon Exide building the batteries exactly the same as the Italian company even after Exide said they could do better. So, Exide built them just like the Italian company did. They bought a lot of the same equipment and received a bunch of samples from BMW to compare against.

Sure enough BMW found something out of spec and they naturally assumed the unskilled American work force couldn't build the battery to tolerance, only to find out none of the batteries they sent fit that spec either and the Exides matched the flawed ones perfectly. So much fine Italian craftsmanship and German thoroughness catching the manufacturing error.
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      08-30-2008, 08:16 AM   #73
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I wonder how many people here think their cars were built in Germany that were actually built in S. Africa?
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      08-30-2008, 08:48 AM   #74
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Sure enough BMW found something out of spec and they naturally assumed the unskilled American work force couldn't build the battery to tolerance, only to find out none of the batteries they sent fit that spec either and the Exides matched the flawed ones perfectly. So much fine Italian craftsmanship and German thoroughness catching the manufacturing error.
Not surprising. We have had similar occurrences on test and measurement equipment. We have made workarounds to allow the customer to continue using the supposedly perfect equipment.
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      08-30-2008, 09:28 AM   #75
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I wonder how many people here think their cars were built in Germany that were actually built in S. Africa?
+1 or that their transmission is GM designed/engineered and made in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_6L50_transmission
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      08-30-2008, 09:49 AM   #76
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I hope this doesnt happen. Even though they are probably going to be just as good, i like knowing my car came from the heart of Bavaria and not some bumblefuck town in S.C.
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      08-30-2008, 10:36 AM   #77
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bumblefuck town in S.C.


While it is not a multi-million population metropolis, the Greenville/Spartanburg area is hardly bumblefuck.
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      08-30-2008, 10:39 AM   #78
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I wonder how many people here think their cars were built in Germany that were actually built in S. Africa?
Haha I was thinking the same thing.
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      08-30-2008, 11:05 AM   #79
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Actually heard a GM worker say this to me and a friend a few months ago....
"I love my job, all we do during our shift is smoke weed and drink beer at the plant."
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      08-30-2008, 11:09 AM   #80
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I like the fact that my 3 was built in Germany, but anyone saying America can't design and build good cars hasn't seen a recent Malibu or Euro Focus. Honda builds cars in Ohio and they're great quality. BMW has been assembling cars in South Carolina for years. Just because something is built in Germany doesn't automatically make it superior. Look at all the quality issues VW has had over the last 5 years.
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      08-30-2008, 11:15 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by ede92 View Post
Only right-hand drive 3 Series are built in South Africa.

This show the general ignorance of people buying BMW's. They started exporting LHD in 1997.

http://www.bmwplant.co.za/Content/fr...af0gau02~6.htm

The majority of the E90's sold in the US are built in the Rosslyn, South Africa plant. It used to be 325/328 only but they are now also building E90 335i's for the US market. There are some threads on this board about people finding some South African Rands in their car.

Local dealer 335i build in SA

http://www.vehix.com/inventory/Detai...ookieSupport=1

However CarFax will tell you it was build in Germany, but is not.
A N in your VIN means it was build in SA


and all those SA build 328i's

http://www.mileone.com/new-cars/bmw-...=4%2c4%2c4%2c4

Last edited by Move.Over; 08-30-2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Carfax edit
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      08-30-2008, 12:01 PM   #82
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While it is not a multi-million population metropolis, the Greenville/Spartanburg area is hardly bumblefuck.
+1

- J
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      08-30-2008, 12:29 PM   #83
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Easy there. First not everyone around here is American. And second, when you buy a GERMAN car you expect it to be designed and built in GERMANY. It's not about the workforce, it's about paying a load of money so you get a car that was built by the exact same people who created and designed it.

Relax
I think this is the best statement. There is a horse and there is a donkey, which one are you going to ride?
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      08-30-2008, 12:33 PM   #84
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I don't really care where my car is built. As long as it is well put together, runs good, and doesn't have problems I'm happy. The 3-series is an amazing car and I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to drive one just because it is built in the U.S. If anything, it gives me one more thing to say to the morons who bitch that I didn't buy American.
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      08-30-2008, 12:35 PM   #85
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Wow, I don't think of seen a thread full of so many clueless people in such a long time. I think it's more just being blinded by arrogance.

America is consistently at the front of the pack when it comes to new technology and inventions, etc. Just because Ford and GM may pay minimum wage workers they found off the side of the street to build cheap designs means NOTHING regarding what can or can't be built here.

To say the factories in Germany are so much more advanced and impressive than a GM plant in the US is ridiculous. Do you think BMW is going to get GM to build them a factory here? BMW will design a new (or extend the existing) factory to their liking.

Then it's just a matter of hiring people who aren't morons, bums, potheads, etc to work in your factory, and pay them enough that they respect and like their job. To think that BMW couldn't create the EXACT same cars in the US as compared to Germany is absolutely ridiculous. Just because some domestic car companies build cheaper cars, doesn't mean the country has no capacity to build something nice as well.

So to all of you who say you will never buy a BMW built in the US, good for you, see you later! Me? I'll be enjoying the 3 week production time since I don't have to wait on a boat.
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      08-30-2008, 12:51 PM   #86
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Wow, I don't think of seen a thread full of so many clueless people in such a long time. I think it's more just being blinded by arrogance.

[snip]

So to all of you who say you will never buy a BMW built in the US, good for you, see you later! Me? I'll be enjoying the 3 week production time since I don't have to wait on a boat.
My sentiments exactly. Well spoken (er.. written).
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      08-30-2008, 01:14 PM   #87
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(3 series) BMW manufactured in america = one less customer
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      08-30-2008, 02:52 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Wow, I don't think of seen a thread full of so many clueless people in such a long time. I think it's more just being blinded by arrogance.

America is consistently at the front of the pack when it comes to new technology and inventions, etc. Just because Ford and GM may pay minimum wage workers they found off the side of the street to build cheap designs means NOTHING regarding what can or can't be built here.

To say the factories in Germany are so much more advanced and impressive than a GM plant in the US is ridiculous. Do you think BMW is going to get GM to build them a factory here? BMW will design a new (or extend the existing) factory to their liking.

Then it's just a matter of hiring people who aren't morons, bums, potheads, etc to work in your factory, and pay them enough that they respect and like their job. To think that BMW couldn't create the EXACT same cars in the US as compared to Germany is absolutely ridiculous. Just because some domestic car companies build cheaper cars, doesn't mean the country has no capacity to build something nice as well.

So to all of you who say you will never buy a BMW built in the US, good for you, see you later! Me? I'll be enjoying the 3 week production time since I don't have to wait on a boat.
I never realized my original post would cause such heartburn among the BMW folks.I'm amazed that someone would not buy a BMW because it was not made in Germany.I can't compute a statement like that.The BMW Plant in SC is the newest in the BMW system.As somebody in another post pointed out,all the equip in the plant is German sourced and some of the robotics are sourced in Japan (the leaders in robotic manufacturing).BMW routinely sends American employees to Germany on three year assignments...for the very reason most people are bitching on this tread....to absorb all things German about car manufacturing.Likewise,BMW ships German employees to the US Plant to cross pollinate German (BMW) best practices auto manufacturing to the US employee base.The top 8-10 senior manufacturing positions at the US Plant are mostly held by Germans...to the consternation of some US employees. The workforce in the US is non-union,the workforce in Germany is union...can you spell U A W.The US plant is every bit as German as a Plant in Europe,sans the soil it sits on.Thanks! PalBay
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