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      08-31-2008, 04:08 AM   #133
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It is coming here for the cheap labor thanks to the US dollar. We are Germany's Mexico and China.
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      08-31-2008, 07:37 AM   #134
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You can't do ED with the M series.
actually you can do ED on M series cars. However there is no discount. Unless thats what you meant.
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      08-31-2008, 08:24 AM   #135
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It is coming here for the cheap labor thanks to the US dollar. We are Germany's Mexico and China.
All kidding aside, it would totally make sense to have an American Delivery Program for Europeans and Chinese. Though the location would have to be much better, like NY for Europeans and LA for Asians. They come here, drive their American-Made BMW, and ship it home. Are you kidding me? British and Chinese basically own Manhattan, $400/night economy hotel rooms cost them $220. We can't even get a hotel room in East St. Louis for $220.

There was such a funny comment made by the next President the other night, he made a comment about not being able to afford the car an American is driving. Why didn't he just call it what it is? Leasing!
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      08-31-2008, 09:15 AM   #136
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Just because they are building the cars here doesn't mean their quality is going to get worse. BMW has very strict qualifications for people working on the assembly line so it's not like it's going to be some random people off the street building cars for them. They are not that dumb.
Just to let you know when I was working at BMW, we saw more SC built cars have problems than the ones built in both Germany and South Africa. Could be just the design of the Z's and X's but I know now that I will not buy an American made 3 series. One of the reasons I went with the 335 coupe was that it was built in Germany. Call me unpatriotic or whatever but when I pay that kind of money for a German car I want it built in Germany.
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      08-31-2008, 09:25 AM   #137
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Ahhhh - so he's the guy that made the new series of BMW's UGLIER than the last? Ah - makes sense now, no wonder my car looks like a Hyundai ripoff and why I had such a hard time of convincing my heart to go with my head over an E46 M3 - the chassis and engine were what won me over - the design did not.

I do believe that this quote from Top Gear (Also located in the link so kindly provided by the poster) says it all in regards to this designer:

"This guy's had a lot of stick, this designer, and I think rightly so, because everyone of his cars, they're horrible, they really are, and they should fire this guy,"

For DESIGN notes (i.e. AESTHETICS) please look at Audi...they surely have it right.

And also note - Engineering is more than designing the best without constraints - that's a scientist involved in R&D, or a development team with an F1 team. An ENGINEER designs WITHIN constraints, be that material or COST etc. If Japanese/European designers (not strictly prestige European, I'm talking lower end, like Fiat, Renault, Ford UK, Opel et al) can produce cars that perform better for less $ then the US can as well.

Right now the US is behind the 8 ball. They got lazy and figured consumers would buy SUV's till the cows came home. Workmanship was shoddy because the US manufacturer anticipated that most here would want a new vehicle before the old vehicle broke down. Hence the life span of a generic US vehicle and it's corresponding workmanship could be lax as most would simply have upgraded anyway.

I'm not saying the US can't EVER do a good job - not at all - they can. But their current hit or miss ratio is far off the curve. The US engineers will HAVE to change and improve, else in 5 years GM will be no more. Capitalism is a great thing when it actually works.

My money says they will - I eagerly wait to see the Chevy Volt and other new ideas that the SUV had held down for so long.

Most people here also chose to really miss my point - the DESIGNERS here (the guys that are responsible for creating arguably THE most ugly cars in the world - take a look at the ENTIRE PONTIAC line and tell me that ONE remotely is appealing). I've had friends here from overseas make me PULL OVER so they can take pictures of Pontiac Azteks or other vehicles because THEY ARE SO F'N UGLY.

Now that's my point - US Design - AT THIS POINT IN TIME - is bad. Engineering is getting better.

And seriously - the US work hours are amongst the highest in the world. 2 weeks vacation, 1 week sick leave, 7 public holidays - and you think that's lax?? I'd hate to work in your sweat shop buddy. OTHER countries work LESS and actually are more productive on a man-hr basis.

The point of the thread - if BMW construct 3 series here - would you buy it?

YES - so long as the manufacturing process was maintained to BMW current levels.

If the 3 series was DESIGN and ENGINEERED here - would I buy it?

NO. Simple answer really. Wouldn't consider a US designed vehicle for another decade.
You still bought one right?

Styling is subjective. I personally feel now that all of the cars have been "bangled" the entire lineup makes good sense and have moved the game along. It's easy to keep doing the same thing. It takes balls to do something different.

Not to mention the Germans running the company could have stopped him at any point but, they apparently trusted him enough to let him go.

Also, it's funny how people can overlook Germans doing such a bang up job with these cars lately. Fuel pumps failing left and right, designed and manufactured by Bosch, apparently not tested very well by BMW. Oil coolers left off the certain cars tarnishing the rep by going into limp mode in magazine comparo's, waste gates rattling like crazy (I know they are Mitsu turbos but, again does BMW not test this stuff before release) and my personal pet peeve paint quality that is pretty much inexcusable for a car at this price point.
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      08-31-2008, 09:44 AM   #138
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Easy there. First not everyone around here is American. And second, when you buy a GERMAN car you expect it to be designed and built in GERMANY. It's not about the workforce, it's about paying a load of money so you get a car that was built by the exact same people who created and designed it.

Relax

Stimmt, mein frau ist Deutch. You expect the exactness that Germans are known for. Moving venues will take away from that presumption. Nothing for or against it... I'm just saying. Call it snotty or whatever you like, but "something" will be lost in the move...I'm just saying

North Carolina delivery is definitely not going to be anything like ED. That could be a great disappointment.
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      08-31-2008, 10:38 AM   #139
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Nobody fucking cares what makes you sick.. that's your own problem.

As others said, each part of the world has its strength and weaknesses. I believe the auto manufacturing process in Germany is better. There are plenty of other things that are far better here in US than anywhere else, and my desire to drive a German built car in no way contradicts to my love for the country I now reside in.
+1............the day the 3-series is built here is teh last day I buy a 3-series. At lesat the M3 won't be built here...........
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      08-31-2008, 11:27 AM   #140
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It only makes sense for BMW to build there most popular car in there biggest market, its just that the car may become too cheap and lose it exclusivity. The 3 series will still get manufactured in Germany for the rest of the world.
At least you guys don't have the problem of the car always getting repriced, our currency is fixed to the U.S dollar and since the the dollar has been losing its value the cars have been slowly increasing. I Bought my car for about 65000 now it cost about 76000, so my car actually appreciated in value since i bought it, if I sell it now I will probably break even.
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      08-31-2008, 11:28 AM   #141
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And the educational system for people's inability to spell.
lol this guy.
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      08-31-2008, 12:19 PM   #142
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Actually, I would _prefer_ to buy a BMW made in the USA.

Please don't get me wrong - my wife said our recent european trip built around a ED 335xi was her "best vacation ever."

But I like the idea that a domestic build yields more domestic salaries. It's related to what economists call the "velocity of money" - like purchasing items from a local shop, vs. a chain big-box store, yields more money in local circulation.

I know BMW makes their decisions based on profit, and that car buyers will make their decisions based on (perceived) value. But if a big fraction of a car purchase price goes to the salaries of the folks who build it, then I would prefer to pay salaries of my countrymen.

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      08-31-2008, 12:22 PM   #143
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You still bought one right?

Styling is subjective. I personally feel now that all of the cars have been "bangled" the entire lineup makes good sense and have moved the game along. It's easy to keep doing the same thing. It takes balls to do something different.

Not to mention the Germans running the company could have stopped him at any point but, they apparently trusted him enough to let him go.

Also, it's funny how people can overlook Germans doing such a bang up job with these cars lately. Fuel pumps failing left and right, designed and manufactured by Bosch, apparently not tested very well by BMW. Oil coolers left off the certain cars tarnishing the rep by going into limp mode in magazine comparo's, waste gates rattling like crazy (I know they are Mitsu turbos but, again does BMW not test this stuff before release) and my personal pet peeve paint quality that is pretty much inexcusable for a car at this price point.
Not many issues on N52.
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      08-31-2008, 01:47 PM   #144
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You still bought one right?

Styling is subjective. I personally feel now that all of the cars have been "bangled" the entire lineup makes good sense and have moved the game along. It's easy to keep doing the same thing. It takes balls to do something different.
I bought one for the ENGINE and CHASSIS - the DESIGN was quite fankly a large step back - hence why most E46 owners now define their car a "classic" design.

Much like I bought a WRX in 01 - with the ugliest front end I could remember - not like the old WRX that was released globally circa 1994 - I purchased it for the love of what was underneath the hood - not how it LOOKED or what BADGE was on the vehicle.

There was no "evolution" here for BMW design - they brought in a guy who brought in ideas that Honda, Toyota, Hyundai etc had ALL been implimenting for a good 6 years - if you take away the distinctive front grill of a BMW you'd be left with a generic Japanese/Asian look-a-like. There was no genius.

And to anybody that owns a E90 sedan or 330i - my condolences - the arse end of those cars are downright disgraceful.

If they had the ability to put a 335 engine, chassis, warranty and interior updates in the shell of an E46 M3 - I certainly know what I'd have chosen.

If you want an example of what design SHOULD be - go have a look at an Audi S5 - that leaves our 335i's in the dust as far as design goes, that's truly a beautiful car.

The good news I believe is that M series cars will ALWAYS be constructed close to BMW Engineering in Germany so they can monitor quality control with greater response.

Also - EVERYBODY knows that ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS are NOT EUROPEAN STRENGTHS. You'll always have a pump failure, an electrical glitch etc. I have a mate who has to disconnect his battery if he leaves the car for more than 2 days due to the fact the power seats drain it if he DOESN'T disconnect it. And that's a MERC.

The worlds perfect car would have an engine and chassis designed by the Germans, suspension tuned by the British, electrical system design by the Japanese, exterior design by the Italians and BUILD QUALITY DESIGN by the Japanese. At this point in time the ONLY place for the American in this process would be the CONSUMER.

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      08-31-2008, 02:04 PM   #145
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I bought one for the ENGINE and CHASSIS - the DESIGN was quite fankly a large step back - hence why most E46 owners now define their car a "classic" design.

Much like I bought a WRX in 01 - with the ugliest front end I could remember - not like the old WRX that was released globally circa 1994 - I purchased it for the love of what was underneath the hood - not how it LOOKED or what BADGE was on the vehicle.

There was no "evolution" here for BMW design - they brought in a guy who brought in ideas that Honda, Toyota, Hyundai etc had ALL been implimenting for a good 6 years - if you take away the distinctive front grill of a BMW you'd be left with a generic Japanese/Asian look-a-like. There was no genius.

And to anybody that owns a E90 sedan or 330i - my condolences - the arse end of those cars are dowright disgraceful.

If they had the ability to put a 335 engine, chassis, warranty and interior updates in the shell of an E46 M3 - I certainly know what I'd have chosen.

If you want an example of what design SHOULD be - go have a look at an Audi S5 - that leaves our 335i's in the dust as far as design goes, that's truly a beautiful car.

The good news I believe is that M series cars will ALWAYS be constructed close to BMW Engineering in Germany so they can monitor quality control with greater response.

Also - EVERYBODY knows that ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS are NOT EUROPEAN STRENGTHS. You'll always have a pump failure, an electrical glitch etc. I have a mate who has to disconnect his battery if he leaves the car for more than 2 days due to the fact the power seats drain it if he DOESN'T disconnect it. And that's a MERC.

The worlds perfect car would have an engine and chassis designed by the Germans, suspension tuned by the British, electrical system design by the Japanese, exterior design by the Italians and BUILD QUALITY DESIGN by the Japanese. At this point in time the ONLY place for the American in this process would be the CONSUMER.
Of course it isn't all original but inspired. I didn't know people buy ugly performing cars. I always thought people buy what they see first and then go further by looking under the hood. Lastly they would do a comparison as to see how reliable the badge is. Of course everyone is entitled to be different. As for the Japanese thing, look at the new toyoata camry's trunk and the 5 series. Who came first. One comes after another and vice versa. Yes as a consumer who loves a German car likes it to be at the most it can be, German.
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      08-31-2008, 02:43 PM   #146
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Tell that to all the Toyota owners who get there cars out of Kentucky and still constantly rank as some of the best built most reliable cars in the world.

Its not where the car is built (well maybe in China), it is how it is designed and the equipment used to build them.

GM makes crap because the cars were designed like junk, not because of the workers (sure they may be a bit slower).

Check the X3/Z4 boards those cars are pretty reliable, and definitely not less so then the German built 3 series.
now, im not chinese but why the hell do you think that everything thats made in china is a piece of worthless shit? yeah, so what if they make alot of replica and cheaper quality item, the price is cheaper to buy! If BMW ever decides to build their cars in china it would probably save them money on workers salaries, but that doesnt mean their building standards are lower. chinese are hard working people. havent you noticed that most chinese families or matter of fact MOST asian families that move to the US for 20 years do very well? it takes them 20years to build their empire from absolutely nothing. So dont be ignorant and act like china only makes crap and that their idiots because they dont know what quality control is. because they do, they just dont much of it YET
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      08-31-2008, 03:03 PM   #147
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now, im not chinese but why the hell do you think that everything thats made in china is a piece of worthless shit? yeah, so what if they make alot of replica and cheaper quality item, the price is cheaper to buy! If BMW ever decides to build their cars in china it would probably save them money on workers salaries, but that doesnt mean their building standards are lower. chinese are hard working people. havent you noticed that most chinese families or matter of fact MOST asian families that move to the US for 20 years do very well? it takes them 20years to build their empire from absolutely nothing. So dont be ignorant and act like china only makes crap and that their idiots because they dont know what quality control is. because they do, they just dont much of it YET
Give me a statistic of all the products they make there that are better than the original. As for workers, yes they trully are hard workers. With the population issue, either work hard or not work at all. A dime a dozen ready to work.
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      08-31-2008, 05:41 PM   #148
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now, im not chinese but why the hell do you think that everything thats made in china is a piece of worthless shit? yeah, so what if they make alot of replica and cheaper quality item, the price is cheaper to buy! If BMW ever decides to build their cars in china it would probably save them money on workers salaries, but that doesnt mean their building standards are lower. chinese are hard working people. havent you noticed that most chinese families or matter of fact MOST asian families that move to the US for 20 years do very well? it takes them 20years to build their empire from absolutely nothing. So dont be ignorant and act like china only makes crap and that their idiots because they dont know what quality control is. because they do, they just dont much of it YET
Chill, I never said a word about the Chinese people, dont dare put words in my post that were not even there.

Secondly (and yes they are getting better) quality control was lacking in China made products. Ask the conmpanies that were sweating it out when the huge toothpaste recall happened.
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      08-31-2008, 06:17 PM   #149
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Chill, I never said a word about the Chinese people, dont dare put words in my post that were not even there.

Secondly (and yes they are getting better) quality control was lacking in China made products. Ask the conmpanies that were sweating it out when the huge toothpaste recall happened.
and the led issue.
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      08-31-2008, 07:23 PM   #150
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Wrong again

E92/E93 - BMW 3 Series Coupés and Convertibles as well as M3 and M3 Convertibles are manufactured exclusively in Regensburg.
I am not here to educate the ignorant - so go do some more research and let me know where right-hand drive e92s are built. I already know where left hand ones are built but thanks for your deep insight.
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      08-31-2008, 07:42 PM   #151
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"For 2011, Volkswagen and (by association)

Audi are working on a new plant in Tennessee that will build the A4 and Q5, among other models,

and Mercedes is looking to get C-Class production into the Alabama plant by 2011 as well."


SO BMW is not the only one
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      08-31-2008, 09:16 PM   #152
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not surprised
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      08-31-2008, 10:31 PM   #153
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my Z4M was built in the US and its 10 Times better than my piece of sh1t 335 that was built in germany...
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      09-01-2008, 12:26 AM   #154
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South Africa !!!!!

FYI. Quite a few cars that come to the USA at least to the West Coast (3 series) are made in South Africa
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