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      09-28-2008, 05:24 AM   #1
Jamese93
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Post Help! Serious problems with e93 sparkling graphite paint!

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Help!

Does any one have experience or has anyone heard of paint issues with Sparkling Graphite?

I made the plunge and bought a new E93 325i M-sport cab with upgraded wheels, black leather etc recently. On delivery there were a few spots of fallout damage on the roof which I noticed and I agreed to take the car back into the dealer, and also have a few other minor points I noticed ironed out.

The paint was duly polished by the dealer and the marks came out, and I hoped this was the end of it. A few weeks went by and the car got rained on (it's always garaged in an underground heated and cooled car park). The rain burnt into the paint on the boot leaving quite a few marks. If you looked at them it was as if the surface of the lacquer has been removed and the damaged areas look pock-marked and burnt in.

I then went back to the dealer and started getting moderately upset with the car but not them, as it's not their fault. The car was duly polished and a-glazed and to their credit looked awesome.

I then drove the car and being summer got flies on the front of the car (bear with me here!). 48 hours later I cleaned the car and now the bonnet has small fly shaped marks burnt into the paint. These are also evident on the top of the windscreen surround. Note the car's cleaned each week and generally covers very few miles being a London car.

These marks won't polish out with normal polish and are all burnt in, not marks sitting on the paint - a layer of laquer has to be removed to remove the marks! The car's now waiting for a date for a BMW specilist from head office to view it and the damage.

As you can imagine I'm losing my temper now - I bought the car new to keep for a few years so I knew it was only me that had driven it etc. The ownership experience is now becoming a painful rather than pleasurable one.

To be fair I think the paints either not been correctly applied or there's something wrong with its composition - and I don't see how they're going to fix it as they've tried this twice, first repolishing and second re-polishing and A-glazing and it's not worked.

I've had BMW's for years (6 cylinder E46's generally) and all have been well made, but the paint on this car is absolutely cr@p. The others were sometimes left outside in the rain, snow etc. for months in the winter and they never had any paint issues!

Any ideas anyone? I'm getting to the point of thinking of formal automotive legal advice about rejecting the car. I don't see how they can repair paint with these issues and I'm certainly not going to allow them to repaint as this would devalue the car.

I know I'm new to the forum but any help really would be very much appreciated. Promise I'll make useful contributions in the future and become involved! Now at a combination of my wits end and furious!
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      09-28-2008, 08:08 PM   #2
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You sound mildly paranoid...

I would recommend autopia.org for these questions...however at that website they only make you more paranoid. That's why I've pretty much said 'goodbye' to that place.

What you're describing sounds quite typical of these cars. You'll just have to get used to it.
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      09-28-2008, 08:14 PM   #3
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You know, it could well be an issue with your car (paint improperly applied or rather the laquer finish not properly applied).
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      09-28-2008, 08:15 PM   #4
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can you summarize what you wrote. i dont feel like reading all that. haha
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      09-28-2008, 08:21 PM   #5
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      09-29-2008, 11:37 AM   #6
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I'll get some pics and post them. I would have thought it would be normal, but flies for 48 hours burning onto the paint? Have a word. I tend to agree with you Bimmerista but just wanted to guage opinion with other like minded people...
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      09-29-2008, 11:39 AM   #7
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Sorry Tiag335i! I would have thought a 40,000 car would be much better finished than this - I've never had issues with any other cars I've had which includes Fords etc. Time to get a shrink appointment I think.....
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      09-30-2008, 10:34 PM   #8
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I think the paint (enviro friendly and water based) on these cars is just very soft. I have found just about looking at it sideways can cause a blemish to appear. My 335i is crimson red and I love the color but the paint may be the death of me - anything ont he paint (bugs, bird bombs (even the tiniest light duty ones) mark the paint very quickly. Many are of the opinion the new paints being used are just too soft. Maybe they need more time to cure even though they are baked on at the factory

One thing I thought very odd was I debadged my car after only having it less than a month and it having very little intense exposure to sun/UV and you could see the 335i ghosted on the boot lid in a tone that was actually lighter than the surrounding paint - almost a reverse fade. After about a week or two the color evened out - very odd I think...
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      09-30-2008, 11:40 PM   #9
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the paint on my back bumper is peeling, and has gotten worse. I too have A22 Sparkling graphite, maybe there is something wrong with quality control (maybe thats why BMW is discontinuing it?
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      10-01-2008, 01:24 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed_Addict View Post
I think the paint (enviro friendly and water based) on these cars is just very soft. I have found just about looking at it sideways can cause a blemish to appear. My 335i is crimson red and I love the color but the paint may be the death of me - anything ont he paint (bugs, bird bombs (even the tiniest light duty ones) mark the paint very quickly. Many are of the opinion the new paints being used are just too soft. Maybe they need more time to cure even though they are baked on at the factory

One thing I thought very odd was I debadged my car after only having it less than a month and it having very little intense exposure to sun/UV and you could see the 335i ghosted on the boot lid in a tone that was actually lighter than the surrounding paint - almost a reverse fade. After about a week or two the color evened out - very odd I think...
Paint on these isn't soft. That stuff is freakin rock hard compared to some others. the 335i ghosted that you have is probably a bit of adhesive left, and you might washed it off or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamese93 View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Help!

Does any one have experience or has anyone heard of paint issues with Sparkling Graphite?

I made the plunge and bought a new E93 325i M-sport cab with upgraded wheels, black leather etc recently. On delivery there were a few spots of fallout damage on the roof which I noticed and I agreed to take the car back into the dealer, and also have a few other minor points I noticed ironed out.

The paint was duly polished by the dealer and the marks came out, and I hoped this was the end of it. A few weeks went by and the car got rained on (it's always garaged in an underground heated and cooled car park). The rain burnt into the paint on the boot leaving quite a few marks. If you looked at them it was as if the surface of the lacquer has been removed and the damaged areas look pock-marked and burnt in.

I then went back to the dealer and started getting moderately upset with the car but not them, as it's not their fault. The car was duly polished and a-glazed and to their credit looked awesome.

I then drove the car and being summer got flies on the front of the car (bear with me here!). 48 hours later I cleaned the car and now the bonnet has small fly shaped marks burnt into the paint. These are also evident on the top of the windscreen surround. Note the car's cleaned each week and generally covers very few miles being a London car.

These marks won't polish out with normal polish and are all burnt in, not marks sitting on the paint - a layer of laquer has to be removed to remove the marks! The car's now waiting for a date for a BMW specilist from head office to view it and the damage.

As you can imagine I'm losing my temper now - I bought the car new to keep for a few years so I knew it was only me that had driven it etc. The ownership experience is now becoming a painful rather than pleasurable one.

To be fair I think the paints either not been correctly applied or there's something wrong with its composition - and I don't see how they're going to fix it as they've tried this twice, first repolishing and second re-polishing and A-glazing and it's not worked.

I've had BMW's for years (6 cylinder E46's generally) and all have been well made, but the paint on this car is absolutely cr@p. The others were sometimes left outside in the rain, snow etc. for months in the winter and they never had any paint issues!

Any ideas anyone? I'm getting to the point of thinking of formal automotive legal advice about rejecting the car. I don't see how they can repair paint with these issues and I'm certainly not going to allow them to repaint as this would devalue the car.

I know I'm new to the forum but any help really would be very much appreciated. Promise I'll make useful contributions in the future and become involved! Now at a combination of my wits end and furious!
I have sparkling graphite and i have no problem with what you've described. I don't think your dealer is doing a good job of taking the stuff out. Glaze does not offer protection and just fills in things like swirls. Take it to a real detailer once or twice a year, and you should not have any problem with this. It also helps to put some protection on it. For instance, sealant or wax.
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      10-01-2008, 01:38 AM   #11
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yeah, take it to a real detailer and they should be able to to tell you what's going on... good luck!

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Take it to a real detailer
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      10-01-2008, 01:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAg335i View Post
You sound mildly paranoid...

I would recommend autopia.org for these questions...however at that website they only make you more paranoid. That's why I've pretty much said 'goodbye' to that place.

What you're describing sounds quite typical of these cars. You'll just have to get used to it.
...."What you're describing sounds quite typical of these cars....."

this sounds like nothing i have heard or seen...not saying it hasnt.....but yet to read anything on this site!
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      10-01-2008, 07:36 AM   #13
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sounds like you just need some water mark remover and to hose the front bumper down with bug remover and clay/polish it.
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      10-01-2008, 08:38 AM   #14
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Paint on these isn't soft. That stuff is freakin rock hard compared to some others. the 335i ghosted that you have is probably a bit of adhesive left, and you might washed it off or something.
Nope - Goo Gone, clayed, cleaner wax, polish the sealent - no residue for certain. Car was not even washed during that approx week and a half period during which the color changed - it was only driven 3 times on sunny days and sat in the garage the rest of that time. At least in the end the color evened out and the color mismatch evened out.

By the way, I also had slight impressions in clear coat where th Welt had applied small foam bumpers to my Euro plate during ed - and no it was not rub in or a mark cause by debris and vibration it was pressed into the clear - it did buff out.
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      10-01-2008, 08:47 AM   #15
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Without photos, it's hard to tell for sure, but this sounds like over-reaction. Leaving a residue or "ghost" of raindrops, leaves, bugs, etc. is indeed normal for any paint. It is more noticeable on darker colors. Clay your car, use a paint cleaner, polish, and seal. Do this every 6 months or so. The stuff will come off, it's not really "burning" your CC, it's just leaving a dull mark behind.

Hang out more in this forum and at autopia.org forums, and you'll learn how to keep your car looking its best. A DD can't stay perfect for long, though, you just do what you can to keep it up. If you do a major detail every 4-6 months, you're doing better than 99% of the people who drive.
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      10-01-2008, 09:20 AM   #16
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i have sparkling graphite and 4k plus in detail supplies and paul dalton has helped me quite a few times.. i would give him a call and take your car to him and see what he says!!
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      10-01-2008, 09:48 AM   #17
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I have had similar problems with my sparkling graphite.

A couple of weekends ago, I did a full detail and applied 2 layers of Chemical Guys JetSeal 109. Literally nine days later, I go to work and park near a curb that has a patch of grass. Well I come out at lunchtime, and I find a sprinkler repair truck. No problem, I'm paranoid, so i parked far away from the curb, so I'm safe. Wrong. My car is covered in water spots all the way up to my sunroof. Worse is that it was about 98 degrees and sunny. The spots were already dried.

Again, no problem, because I have that wonderful JetSeal applied, I should be pretty safe from any permanent damage to the clear coat. I'll just quick detail and clay it when I get home. Wrong again.

The first picture is how I found my car, the second is after a quick detail and clay bar treatment.


I have since spent an entire saturday with a porter cable DA polisher and you can still see the spots at certain angles. I was temped to go out and buy a rotary buffer to fix this, but then thought why bother, the crappy paint is just going to melt the next time it gets wet anyway. I tried chemical guys water spot remover as well, and it did zilch.

I'm also really surprised that jetseal did absolutely nothing to protect me from water spots. Well, except it made the water bead, so that now I at least have uniform paint damage
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      10-01-2008, 11:40 AM   #18
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DANG, and I thought Oxnard water was hard, you must have to chew that stuff twice. But those edges still look like they are ABOVE the clear, so the Jetseal protected the paint itself, even if it didn't shed the minerals off the car.
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      10-01-2008, 12:21 PM   #19
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Hard water spots are easy to remove with a simple vinegar wash. but make sure you re-apply wax/sealant/glaze afterwards since this will stip all the wax off as well.

BTW, hard water stains are just calcium deposits for the most part, and shouldn't be etched into your paint unless it was acidic sprinkler water... o.O I would stop by a professional detailer and ask them.
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      10-01-2008, 03:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JO3 View Post
I have had similar problems with my sparkling graphite.

A couple of weekends ago, I did a full detail and applied 2 layers of Chemical Guys JetSeal 109. Literally nine days later, I go to work and park near a curb that has a patch of grass. Well I come out at lunchtime, and I find a sprinkler repair truck. No problem, I'm paranoid, so i parked far away from the curb, so I'm safe. Wrong. My car is covered in water spots all the way up to my sunroof. Worse is that it was about 98 degrees and sunny. The spots were already dried.

Again, no problem, because I have that wonderful JetSeal applied, I should be pretty safe from any permanent damage to the clear coat. I'll just quick detail and clay it when I get home. Wrong again.

The first picture is how I found my car, the second is after a quick detail and clay bar treatment.


I have since spent an entire saturday with a porter cable DA polisher and you can still see the spots at certain angles. I was temped to go out and buy a rotary buffer to fix this, but then thought why bother, the crappy paint is just going to melt the next time it gets wet anyway. I tried chemical guys water spot remover as well, and it did zilch.

I'm also really surprised that jetseal did absolutely nothing to protect me from water spots. Well, except it made the water bead, so that now I at least have uniform paint damage
which polishes did you use? because with a PC and orange pad, even 106FF should be able to take that out. Yours look pretty light
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      10-13-2008, 08:51 AM   #21
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The pics above are similar to the issues on mine except mine have burnt into the laquer rather than onto the surface - if surface hard rainwater marks the vinegar wash should work - acid, alkali and all of that.

I've had proper advice now - it seems as if the view is that the paint was of incorrect quality and / or incorrectly applied leaving it too soft, and allowing damage from outside factors that wouldn't normally damage paintwork.

As far as I know soft paint (the car's 3 months old) through incorrect application or incorrect mixing can't really be fixed - baking it again may not work, and besides, the sun has done that already a bit this summer.

The fact that BMW are seemingly doing sweet FA is the bit that's driving me mad. The car's going in shortly and a BMW technical manager is going to assess it and make a suggestion on how to fix it.

Can you imagine what bird lime would do to this paint, or tree sap!

I'll let you know how I get on so I can advice other people on an appropriate route of action.....

Finally - being in the UK not familiar with clay - presumably this is a light abrasive compund which moves surface blemishes?
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      06-04-2009, 11:34 AM   #22
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Last post on this for future reference - BMW have bought the car back after it went in six times, a lot of them for paint in one year with a blown gearbox and roof problems - the paint was sub-standard ;-)

Now ordered a new 325 m-sport high-line in bluewater with coral red leather :-)

Over and out on this one unless anyone needs advice on rejection of a car with head office.

J
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