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      10-01-2008, 02:55 PM   #45
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My ins company were fine. Cost me an extra 250 quid.
Thats more than my full premium
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      10-01-2008, 04:41 PM   #46
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Charges seem quite varied, I was only thinking of a couple of years time when i downsize to perhaps a 118d m sport getting nearer to retirement [old git]
my insurance now is only about 320 so i wouldn't want to pay as much extra as Carlos!
The 118d is in the low road tax bracket and a lot cheaper than the 120,got to think of all the costs involved, perhaps a remap up to the 120 power?
thanks for all the replies, i did try a search but couldn't find anything
Bob
I would have thought by then that simply keeping the E92 320d in 2 years time and not downsizing to a 118d would be both the cheaper and more satisfying option.
Newer vehicle higher depreciation costs than the older car that other reduced running costs will not compensate for. Trouble is used cars have taken a big hit recently so selling up now results in a big loss. To redress the balance you need to keep a car longer.
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      10-02-2008, 08:17 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by carrerarsr View Post
Thats more than my full premium
how old are you again?

how old am i again LOL
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      10-02-2008, 09:54 AM   #48
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Insurance comapny will check if you are in an accident, it is easy for them to do it and could save them hundreds if not thosuands!

I always say that it has increased it by 10%, easy to prove it has been fiddled with, not so easy to see by how much.
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      10-02-2008, 11:01 AM   #49
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First thing I did with my last 320d E91 that was written off in March was rip open the mashed bonnet and remove the tuning box, even though the accident wasn't my fault. Best thing about a tuning box being plug and play. Which is why a switchable remap as discussed on the 'Guys at Evolve' thread would be useful. If you can switch or self remove the map BMW and insurance companies will find it harder to prove you 'tuned' it highly.

A plug and play OBD connecting box would be spot on to reflash the desired map.
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      10-02-2008, 11:03 AM   #50
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how old are you again?

how old am i again LOL
320d v's 335d

39 v's 24
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      10-02-2008, 11:54 AM   #51
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I would have thought by then that simply keeping the E92 320d in 2 years time and not downsizing to a 118d would be both the cheaper and more satisfying option.
Newer vehicle higher depreciation costs than the older car that other reduced running costs will not compensate for. Trouble is used cars have taken a big hit recently so selling up now results in a big loss. To redress the balance you need to keep a car longer.
You are probably right ,agh!, but my car will be 3years old and out of warranty
by then [hardly any miles on it though] and bmw's extended warranty is not very good value, I have got to try and time it so i can still afford a new bmw
or else i will have to keep this one until its time for the dreaded Micra, that what most pensioners seem to drive anyway! god forbid, and ive got to have an excuse for another new car!!, convinced the wife this is logical lol
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      10-02-2008, 01:42 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by carrerarsr View Post
First thing I did with my last 320d E91 that was written off in March was rip open the mashed bonnet and remove the tuning box, even though the accident wasn't my fault. Best thing about a tuning box being plug and play. Which is why a switchable remap as discussed on the 'Guys at Evolve' thread would be useful. If you can switch or self remove the map BMW and insurance companies will find it harder to prove you 'tuned' it highly.

A plug and play OBD connecting box would be spot on to reflash the desired map.

What if you were knocked out with broken legs and arms, who would you ask to remove the device? the paramedic LOL.



Gizze, if BMW cant tell its been mapped how do the insurers out of interest?

Id understand on a modifed motor like a cossie, with a massive 'cooler and shiny bits under the bonnet and a T66 turbo etc.

But on a stock looking 320d for instance?
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      10-02-2008, 02:36 PM   #53
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Liverpool Victoria support most mods and are well priced at the moment.

You can set it all up on line so no need to even pick the phone up to them !

Reckon on about + 100 for your re-map.

Yves
Yep I'm with LV through the CSMA, very easy online quoting facility and I'll second Yves excellent tip

My mods cost me the princely sum of 26.01, my renewal just came through and for an extra 400.00 the rest of the car is covered too!
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      10-02-2008, 02:39 PM   #54
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Gizze, if BMW cant tell its been mapped how do the insurers out of interest?
I wouldn't be so confident about that if I were you. I have every confidence that if BMW or an insurance company wanted to find evidence of a remap on a tuned ECU they would find it.

If they don't have a reason to go looking at your checksum values, they won't. If a multiple thousand claim depends upon it (either warranty or insurance claim) they will have a dig around to see what they can find.

BTW - I have just been quoted by Direct Line and A-Plan for a +20% tune on my 335i and they were both very reasonable. A-Plan were best at 100 more than my cheapest 'stock' quote, so I'm very happy - I'd better get that JB3 installed now then .
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      10-02-2008, 02:43 PM   #55
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Gizze, if BMW cant tell its been mapped how do the insurers out of interest?

Id understand on a modifed motor like a cossie, with a massive 'cooler and shiny bits under the bonnet and a T66 turbo etc.

But on a stock looking 320d for instance?
I'd agree.... For a simple assessment of the damage, connecting a laptop and running the engine (with an on road test if it's driveable) seems way OTT for a simple asessor. Surely it would need them to bring in a specialist.

I can see this happening on a one off job if you're a serial claimer, and if the car looks to have been modded elsewhere (exhaust, IC etc) or (flame suit on) an M3 driven by a youngster; but in my unfortunate experience putting my modded Impreza through a dry stone wall, the assessor was in and out fairly quickly. To me, a Scoob is a prime target to pick a hole in your claim and refuse to pay out, but with a standard BMW, I'd see you as very, very unfortunate to get pulled and inspected so closely...
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      10-02-2008, 02:44 PM   #56
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I wouldn't be so confident about that if I were you. I have every confidence that if BMW or an insurance company wanted to find evidence of a remap on a tuned ECU they would find it.

If they don't have a reason to go looking at your checksum values, they won't. If a multiple thousand claim depends upon it (either warranty or insurance claim) they will have a dig around to see what they can find.

BTW - I have just been quoted by Direct Line and A-Plan for a +20% tune on my 335i and they were both very reasonable. A-Plan were best at 100 more than my cheapest 'stock' quote, so I'm very happy - I'd better get that JB3 installed now then .
Agreed, BMW can definitely tell if it has been mapped, the system will look for certain things. I don't consider it a problem though as the dealer won't want to turn away warranty work.
The problem will come when all work has to be passed by BMW AG before it can be started, doesn't matter how friendly your dealer is then, it won't be up to them.
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      10-02-2008, 02:52 PM   #57
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Agreed, BMW can definitely tell if it has been mapped, the system will look for certain things. I don't consider it a problem though as the dealer won't want to turn away warranty work.
The problem will come when all work has to be passed by BMW AG before it can be started, doesn't matter how friendly your dealer is then, it won't be up to them.
+1. All the info can be downloaded from the ECU.

OK most dealers won't go looking for one + they rarely have the time or inclination, but things could well be different if an insurer is looking for a means to avoid a big payout.

If you pay to gain, why not cover with insurance what could be a potential life destroyer.
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      10-02-2008, 03:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by gIzzE View Post
Agreed, BMW can definitely tell if it has been mapped, the system will look for certain things. I don't consider it a problem though as the dealer won't want to turn away warranty work.
The problem will come when all work has to be passed by BMW AG before it can be started, doesn't matter how friendly your dealer is then, it won't be up to them.
So when people say they take off there tuning box or re-map to standard for any work surely thats pointless as the dealer could tell anyway if they so wanted.


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+1. All the info can be downloaded from the ECU.

OK most dealers won't go looking for one + they rarely have the time or inclination, but things could well be different if an insurer is looking for a means to avoid a big payout.

If you pay to gain, why not cover with insurance what could be a potential life destroyer.
I agree, it is a bit of a no brainer not to declare it. For the sake of 20 quid of 200 quid. Its better to be covered for what could happen,

a law suit of hundreds of thousands.
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      10-02-2008, 03:26 PM   #59
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So when people say they take off there tuning box or re-map to standard for any work surely thats pointless as the dealer could tell anyway if they so wanted.
No - this is exactly why people return their cars back to stock, it is much more difficult to check retrospectively.

With a remap, the most likely way a dealer can tell that the ecu has been remapped is through the use of checksums within the software - this is a form of validation check commonly used by software engineers. When stock parameters are changed - the results of a checksum are invalid and alarm bells start ringing. By reflashing the ecu back to stock, the relevant parameters are at their stock values and will therefore pass the checksum validation process.

When people remove their piggyback modules, that is to remove the physical presence of add on hardware. Once removed it is believed that there are no signs stored within the ECU to suggest that one has ever been installed (unless error codes are stored resulting from boost related limp mode conditions - these can cause problems for reflashes and piggyback tunes).

One further safeguard that I would recommend is to give the dealer your spare key when you take your car in. The key does have some storage capability and it is thought that it will store error code data, even if they have been previously removed from your ECU using an OBD scanner - however, this data is not transfered from one key to another.

Last edited by Yahoo; 10-02-2008 at 04:05 PM.
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      10-02-2008, 04:02 PM   #60
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Surely we're talking percentages here.. what about an incident where you're unable to get the BlackBox out?

If you're hurt or it's a big incident then maybe you won't have the time...

OK, OK.. all speculative I know, but in these cases you're probably more likely to have a box discovered.

End of the day it's a no brainer.. declare it and be 100% sure you're safe whatever happens..
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      10-03-2008, 08:48 AM   #61
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No - this is exactly why people return their cars back to stock, it is much more difficult to check retrospectively.

With a remap, the most likely way a dealer can tell that the ecu has been remapped is through the use of checksums within the software - this is a form of validation check commonly used by software engineers. When stock parameters are changed - the results of a checksum are invalid and alarm bells start ringing. By reflashing the ecu back to stock, the relevant parameters are at their stock values and will therefore pass the checksum validation process.

When people remove their piggyback modules, that is to remove the physical presence of add on hardware. Once removed it is believed that there are no signs stored within the ECU to suggest that one has ever been installed (unless error codes are stored resulting from boost related limp mode conditions - these can cause problems for reflashes and piggyback tunes).

One further safeguard that I would recommend is to give the dealer your spare key when you take your car in. The key does have some storage capability and it is thought that it will store error code data, even if they have been previously removed from your ECU using an OBD scanner - however, this data is not transfered from one key to another.

Very interesting information you have, how accurate and valid is it?

Where did you source this information? or do you have this info due to your own experiances.
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      10-03-2008, 10:44 AM   #62
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Taking a chance that you might void your warranty is one thing, but taking a chance that you might void your insurance is IMHO a much more serious risk.

I chose to inform my insurance company, and it added appx 100 to my annual premium, but well worth it for peace of mind. As previously stated, in the case of a serious accident, insurance companies are looking for any valid excuse to not pay out, and that just isn't worth the risk IMO.

That reminds me, my insurance renewal is due soon, and I'm not 100% sure if the remap got overwritten or not ... argh, I need to find somewhere safe to time a few 0-60 runs.
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      10-03-2008, 11:33 AM   #63
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Taking a chance that you might void your warranty is one thing, but taking a chance that you might void your insurance is IMHO a much more serious risk.

I chose to inform my insurance company, and it added appx 100 to my annual premium, but well worth it for peace of mind. As previously stated, in the case of a serious accident, insurance companies are looking for any valid excuse to not pay out, and that just isn't worth the risk IMO.

That reminds me, my insurance renewal is due soon, and I'm not 100% sure if the remap got overwritten or not ... argh, I need to find somewhere safe to time a few 0-60 runs.

if you had a software update its gone.

The fact you question it prob means its gone.

If it a company that maps for free again just book it in.
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      10-03-2008, 11:40 AM   #64
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if you had a software update its gone.

The fact you question it prob means its gone.

If it a company that maps for free again just book it in.
thats what i thought carl, but its 3 years or 30000mls, warrenty not life time as i thought i had to pay 100 to have it back on
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      10-03-2008, 01:25 PM   #65
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What if you were knocked out with broken legs and arms, who would you ask to remove the device? the paramedic LOL.
As far as I know I don't talk in my sleep although I do have to admit I've never stayed awake to find out.
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      10-03-2008, 01:36 PM   #66
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Very interesting information you have, how accurate and valid is it?

Where did you source this information? or do you have this info due to your own experiances.
The information regarding piggyback modules has been gleaned by closely following the forced induction pages closely for a year or so - you could call it research.

The information about checkdigits and software validation processes come from a number of sources. Checkdigits and software validation processes are common place in many software applications - I have researched this in some depth in order to teach it at A-Level.

If you want to know about the validity of my description about the use of checksums in ECU software do a google search on 'ECU checksum'. You will find a lot discussion about and products associated with trying to correct invalid checksums in ECU applications. This indicates their use in ECU software and I wouldn't trust any 3rd party software that claims to correct invalid checksums - it would be so easy for a manufacturer to hide or change the parameters used to calculate checksums that a 3rd party just can't guarantee a fool proof solution.
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