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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Breaking News: BMW addresses N54 Turbo Lag!!



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      11-18-2008, 11:48 PM   #67
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I bought off the lot, I dont know my production date. I hear its on the door panel, but there is so much there I cant find it. I bought my car in Oct 2007.
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      11-19-2008, 01:35 AM   #68
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I love the idea......but......I'm gonna wait and see if it plays nicely with JB, SS TT et al. I think that one fella saying they introduced the 29.2 so that we'd end up asking for an updated that catches piggybacks is a bit of a stretch. They'd just update it and there it is, no need to piss everyone off for a year or so.

Having said that, I'll wait and see if they have a new flavor of super snooper built right in. And then wait til we find another way around it
Cos with a new version AND a Pback we are really gonna haul some serious a$$.
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      11-19-2008, 03:36 AM   #69
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      11-19-2008, 04:11 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cda888 View Post
I have the same build date, but I am not confident that I don't have the 29.2 or some equivalent. How do you know what your progman is? Does your power hit hard around 3k rpms?

Unlike the post 03/08 builds, BMW has not claimed that our cars (10/07 - 03/08) are not affected.
I know because 29.2 came out after I had received my car and I have not taken it in for service yet. Also, there was an added iDrive ipod feature that was added in 28.xx which I have so I know I have atleast 28.xx, but not 29.2. No lag, my car feels like a rocket.
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      11-19-2008, 08:04 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Nutballa View Post
Nice. What does the "possibility of slightly increased engine noise levels" mean? Increased Horse power?
EZMASS sums it up in a nutshell, "...See, the issue we ALL suspect is with the actual turbo HARDWARE itself, which is why BMW detuned them in the 29.2 software update. They kept the wastegates open to reduce boost pressure and stress on the turbos... thus reducing performance, but saving the faulty hardware.

So, a real "solution" to me doesn't include a simple software update to "restore" responsiveness back to original specs -- that's a start, of course. However, if there's a real problem with the turbos, I want the HARDWARE fixed, too... and I think BMW owes this to owners of $45k - $50k cars, many with less than 20k miles on them! I'll be extremely pissed if the turbos fail out of warranty due to this problem....."

People were complaining about wastegate rattle, and BMW 'fixed' it by leaving the wastegates open (stopped the rattle), but that introduced lag. So when BMW say's "more noise" we think what they mean is the return of wastegate rattle.
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      11-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #72
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I'm having my '09 335xi built right now, will I have the software with lag? Will they force me to update it in January and will I want the update?

Also, if I'm planning on getting a Juicebox 3 does it even matter?

Sorry for the noobness
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      11-19-2008, 10:17 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erregend View Post

vrooooooooooooooooooooooooo
*OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

If the "*" is at 1500RPM then NO,
but if it is at ~3000RPM then YES.
It's so ridiculous even before this lag issue ever surfaced that the claim of "300 lb-ft @ 1400-5000". Yeah whatever. It's not even at 2K, more like ~2200 or ~2300. As of 29.2 I am not sure, but sounds like ~3K now.

Some people may claim "yeah but, do u really want your max torque to be at that low an rpm?" What? Hell yeah I do, as long as it doesn't drop anywhere in the mid range.

They should stop advertising this as "amazing low end torque". Low end to me is under 2300rpm.

Well as we know the 300 lb-ft figure in and of itself is bogus as we know too.
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      11-19-2008, 10:31 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahbar View Post
It's so ridiculous even before this lag issue ever surfaced that the claim of "300 lb-ft @ 1400-5000". Yeah whatever. It's not even at 2K, more like ~2200 or ~2300. As of 29.2 I am not sure, but sounds like ~3K now.

Some people may claim "yeah but, do u really want your max torque to be at that low an rpm?" What? Hell yeah I do, as long as it doesn't drop anywhere in the mid range.

They should stop advertising this as "amazing low end torque". Low end to me is under 2300rpm.

Well as we know the 300 lb-ft figure in and of itself is bogus as we know too.
Uh, I have an '06 build, and I definitely used to have full pull by around 1700-1800, depending on the gear, but not anymore. Gosh, that was so long ago...
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      11-19-2008, 10:33 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
yeah, cause it's not turbo
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      11-19-2008, 10:45 AM   #76
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Just confirmed it with BMW NA to make sure. The representative said she got a notice today regarding the issue. I asked her to mail me a copy of that statement as well as put a note on my account that I qualify for this software update. I don't want to hear any BS from the dealership when I bring it in for the update.

And now, the wait begins....
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      11-19-2008, 10:48 AM   #77
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BMW's turbo lag statement has been posted on MotorAuthority as well...

http://www.motorauthority.com/bmw-ac...re-update.html
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      11-19-2008, 10:48 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damadama View Post
Comments like this make the m3 owners think the rest of 3 series drivers are young dumb pricks.
or M3 drivers don't know what they are driving, that guy quoted the M3 driver that said he doesn't have a turbo lag be cause he doesn't have turbos
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      11-19-2008, 11:05 AM   #79
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I don't understand this statement: it will be available for vehicles produced from September 2007 through March 2008 when they are brought to an authorized BMW center for a repair which requires a programming update. Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update.

So is it up to March 08 or September 07? Or is it June 06 to March 08?

And why stop at March 08?

Last edited by vgame64; 11-19-2008 at 11:25 AM.
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      11-19-2008, 11:38 AM   #80
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If you have a production date between 6/06-9/07 you automatically qualify for the software update. You bring your car in, ask for the update, no questions asked.

If you have a production date between 9/07-3/08 there has to be some other problem with your car (other than the lag issue) for you to get the update without the possibility of the dealer giving you a hard time and refusing service. I would recommend complaining about slow/frozen iDrive performance (if you have it), or other commonly known issues.

I have no idea why production dates of 3/08-present are getting excluded, plenty of people with these dates are experiencing lag. I bet BMWNA will change their mind about this the sooner we get to January.

Luckily I am a March 2007 build with a dreaded post-v29.2 update, so I will be one of the first people in line in January.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vgame64 View Post
I don't understand this statement: it will be available for vehicles produced from September 2007 through March 2008 when they are brought to an authorized BMW center for a repair which requires a programming update. Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update.

So is it up to March 08 or September 07? Or is it June 06 to March 08?

And why stop at March 08?
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      11-19-2008, 12:32 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC View Post
Just confirmed it with BMW NA to make sure. The representative said she got a notice today regarding the issue. I asked her to mail me a copy of that statement as well as put a note on my account that I qualify for this software update. I don't want to hear any BS from the dealership when I bring it in for the update.

And now, the wait begins....
And so....we will wait.
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      11-19-2008, 12:55 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
EZMASS sums it up in a nutshell, "...See, the issue we ALL suspect is with the actual turbo HARDWARE itself, which is why BMW detuned them in the 29.2 software update. They kept the wastegates open to reduce boost pressure and stress on the turbos... thus reducing performance, but saving the faulty hardware.

So, a real "solution" to me doesn't include a simple software update to "restore" responsiveness back to original specs -- that's a start, of course. However, if there's a real problem with the turbos, I want the HARDWARE fixed, too... and I think BMW owes this to owners of $45k - $50k cars, many with less than 20k miles on them! I'll be extremely pissed if the turbos fail out of warranty due to this problem....."

People were complaining about wastegate rattle, and BMW 'fixed' it by leaving the wastegates open (stopped the rattle), but that introduced lag. So when BMW say's "more noise" we think what they mean is the return of wastegate rattle.

Its cheaper for BMW to put a bandaid on the problem by adjusting the software that to actually fix the hardware. PLUS if there is a real turbo problem, many will operate without issue "during the warranty period". After that, BMW is no longer on the hook for the repair. In fact they will be making money on parts and labor. It all about the money.
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      11-19-2008, 01:20 PM   #83
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Quote:
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Its cheaper for BMW to put a bandaid on the problem by adjusting the software that to actually fix the hardware. PLUS if there is a real turbo problem, many will operate without issue "during the warranty period". After that, BMW is no longer on the hook for the repair. In fact they will be making money on parts and labor. It all about the money.
Until AMS or VKM come out with their turbo kits. Who would want to put in stock turbos then?
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      11-19-2008, 01:37 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by rameal999 View Post
or M3 drivers don't know what they are driving, that guy quoted the M3 driver that said he doesn't have a turbo lag be cause he doesn't have turbos
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      11-19-2008, 06:34 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daya View Post
If you have a production date between 6/06-9/07 you automatically qualify for the software update. You bring your car in, ask for the update, no questions asked.

If you have a production date between 9/07-3/08 there has to be some other problem with your car (other than the lag issue) for you to get the update without the possibility of the dealer giving you a hard time and refusing service. I would recommend complaining about slow/frozen iDrive performance (if you have it), or other commonly known issues.

I have no idea why production dates of 3/08-present are getting excluded, plenty of people with these dates are experiencing lag. I bet BMWNA will change their mind about this the sooner we get to January.

Luckily I am a March 2007 build with a dreaded post-v29.2 update, so I will be one of the first people in line in January.
I still don't understand why the 09/07 - 03/08 cars aren't automatically included. Do they have revised hardware but detuned software?

From all of the discussion, it looks like BMW changed the hardware in some way on 09/07, but the 09/07 - 03/08 cars must still be different somehow from the 04/08- present cars in some way. Otherwise, why would BMW say that only the cars built after 03/08 are unaffected?

Simply stated, how are the 09/07 - 03/08 cars different from the ones that came before and after? I suspect these cars have better hardware but detuned software, and that 29.2 was just the version that was retroactively applied to pre-09/07 cars beginning sometime in April of 2008.
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      11-19-2008, 06:45 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humtek View Post
I know because 29.2 came out after I had received my car and I have not taken it in for service yet. Also, there was an added iDrive ipod feature that was added in 28.xx which I have so I know I have atleast 28.xx, but not 29.2. No lag, my car feels like a rocket.
Humtek, I am in the same position. My car is a 10/07 build. I always assumed that since 29.2 came out after I bought my car and I had never had a software update, I did not have the detuned software.

However,in my car if you turn all traction control off, put it in first DS and choose first gear, and floor it, the boost does not really "hit" until around 3k rpms. Those with early build cars (before 09/07) without 29.2 claim that boost hits hard at around 15k rpms or less. Those with 29.2 describe boost hitting hard around 3k rpms.

When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
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      11-19-2008, 07:23 PM   #87
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When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
I did notice a difference in performance between my 07 coupe (10/06 production) and the 08 vert (10/07 production). I always thought that it was because the vert was heavier - but it is possible that the e93 engine is detuned!!
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      11-19-2008, 07:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
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Humtek, I am in the same position. My car is a 10/07 build. I always assumed that since 29.2 came out after I bought my car and I had never had a software update, I did not have the detuned software.

However,in my car if you turn all traction control off, put it in first DS and choose first gear, and floor it, the boost does not really "hit" until around 3k rpms. Those with early build cars (before 09/07) without 29.2 claim that boost hits hard at around 15k rpms or less. Those with 29.2 describe boost hitting hard around 3k rpms.

When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
I noticed your in Utah. You at high altitude? If so, then there is your lag right there, not the car. I'll have to double check, but I think I hit boost hard around 2k - 2.5k and I"m at 7300ft with a 6MT.
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