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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > ConnectedDrive / I-Drive / Navigation Related Discussion > Next GEN I-DRIVE Retrofit



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      11-23-2008, 01:18 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Have anybody checked if at least the current iDrive OEM connectors for the LCD screen, CCC and controller knob are the same as the new iDrive higher resolution LCD screen, CIC and new controller/buttons assembly?
I'm pretty sure the controller just connects to power and the bus like before (I have no idea if the connector is different.) The CCC connector looks similar, but the LVDS cable is different to the CIC (that's an easy fix.) Most of the big stuff looks like it would hook up with a little adaptation.

The MAIN issue with this is not the hardware swap...looks like everything pretty much will fit where the old stuff did...its the programming!

Whoever wants to "start the fund" can procure the parts and spending their money getting it programmed!
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      11-23-2008, 02:30 PM   #46
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I'm pretty sure the controller just connects to power and the bus like before (I have no idea if the connector is different.) The CCC connector looks similar, but the LVDS cable is different to the CIC (that's an easy fix.) Most of the big stuff looks like it would hook up with a little adaptation.

The MAIN issue with this is not the hardware swap...looks like everything pretty much will fit where the old stuff did...its the programming!

Whoever wants to "start the fund" can procure the parts and spending their money getting it programmed!
Ultimately it would be up to Bmw to program it if they could right?
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      11-25-2008, 07:59 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
I'm pretty sure the controller just connects to power and the bus like before (I have no idea if the connector is different.) The CCC connector looks similar, but the LVDS cable is different to the CIC (that's an easy fix.) Most of the big stuff looks like it would hook up with a little adaptation.

The MAIN issue with this is not the hardware swap...looks like everything pretty much will fit where the old stuff did...its the programming!

Whoever wants to "start the fund" can procure the parts and spending their money getting it programmed!
Thanks...

The 2009 5 Series is using the new iDrive controller with the old iDrive CCC, so it could be as easy as plug and play to add the the new controller to the current 3 Series iDrive.

The rest of the hardware should also connect straight to the current connectors, and I agree that the programming is the biggest obstacle. However, even that should not be difficult if a formal request is made thru the right dealer as you did for your retrofit.

I'm getting the new controller first for testing as long as the connector is the same, but so far no part department that I have called have both controllers in stock to tell me right there that the connectors are the same...
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      11-26-2008, 12:35 AM   #48
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Thanks...

The 2009 5 Series is using the new iDrive controller with the old iDrive CCC, so it could be as easy as plug and play to add the the new controller to the current 3 Series iDrive.

The rest of the hardware should also connect straight to the current connectors, and I agree that the programming is the biggest obstacle. However, even that should not be difficult if a formal request is made thru the right dealer as you did for your retrofit.

I'm getting the new controller first for testing as long as the connector is the same, but so far no part department that I have called have both controllers in stock to tell me right there that the connectors are the same...
That's awesome if you could visually inspect the controller (and hook it up too!) . . . I wish I had a newer WDS - that would show us the pin-out and hookup of the newer controller. Very interesting comment regarding the 5-series. It makes sense, since its just on the bus...likely needs to be programmed via Progman also.

FYI - BMW really wanted nothing to do with my retrofit, nor were they able to program it. I highly doubt finding any help with this retrofit through any authorized BMW sources. I have yet to find the "right" dealer willing to help and actually able to assist.
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      11-26-2008, 07:35 PM   #49
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Thanks...

The 2009 5 Series is using the new iDrive controller with the old iDrive CCC, so it could be as easy as plug and play to add the the new controller to the current 3 Series iDrive.

The rest of the hardware should also connect straight to the current connectors, and I agree that the programming is the biggest obstacle. However, even that should not be difficult if a formal request is made thru the right dealer as you did for your retrofit.

I'm getting the new controller first for testing as long as the connector is the same, but so far no part department that I have called have both controllers in stock to tell me right there that the connectors are the same...


Great stuff!! It definitely makes sense.
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      11-26-2008, 07:37 PM   #50
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That's awesome if you could visually inspect the controller (and hook it up too!) . . . I wish I had a newer WDS - that would show us the pin-out and hookup of the newer controller. Very interesting comment regarding the 5-series. It makes sense, since its just on the bus...likely needs to be programmed via Progman also.

FYI - BMW really wanted nothing to do with my retrofit, nor were they able to program it. I highly doubt finding any help with this retrofit through any authorized BMW sources. I have yet to find the "right" dealer willing to help and actually able to assist.

I know the guys at my dealer very well and they're great guys...
I know alot of guys that work in the shop as well as the service manager.
I'll swing by there this week and ask them a few questions regarding this.
Hopefully they might shed a little more light into this.
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      12-01-2008, 06:31 PM   #51
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I know the guys at my dealer very well and they're great guys...
I know alot of guys that work in the shop as well as the service manager.
I'll swing by there this week and ask them a few questions regarding this.
Hopefully they might shed a little more light into this.
FYI for when you ask:

The P/N of the 2009 3 Series iDrive main components are:

Controller: P/N 65 8 291 89 048
CIC: 65 1 291 99 907
LCD Screen (HD): P/N 65 8 291 93 755

The question is, are the connectors of these CIC components the same as the CCC iDrive? Using WDS, the 2008 3 Series controller connector is labeled X14099, the 2008 CCC connectors are labeled X13812, X13815, X13814, X13820, X13816 and X13817.

So far the 2009 5 Series CIC controller has the same P/N as the 2009 3 Series controller, but its CCC P/N is different from the 2008 3 Series CCC.

My contact at the local BMW dealer could not find the P/N nor the WDS labels of the connectors of these 2009 components.

Any help will be greatly appreciated...
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      12-02-2008, 11:36 PM   #52
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Quote:
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FYI for when you ask:

The P/N of the 2009 3 Series iDrive main components are:

Controller: P/N 65 8 291 89 048
CIC: 65 1 291 99 907
LCD Screen (HD): P/N 65 8 291 93 755

The question is, are the connectors of these CIC components the same as the CCC iDrive? Using WDS, the 2008 3 Series controller connector is labeled X14099, the 2008 CCC connectors are labeled X13812, X13815, X13814, X13820, X13816 and X13817.

So far the 2009 5 Series CIC controller has the same P/N as the 2009 3 Series controller, but its CCC P/N is different from the 2008 3 Series CCC.

My contact at the local BMW dealer could not find the P/N nor the WDS labels of the connectors of these 2009 components.

Any help will be greatly appreciated...
I'm going to print this post and bring it to the guys at my dealership.
I'll keep you guys posted as soon as i get this done...
On another note , not a lot of life in this thread. We need to get this going!!
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      12-03-2008, 09:22 AM   #53
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Quote:
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I'm going to print this post and bring it to the guys at my dealership.
I'll keep you guys posted as soon as i get this done...
On another note , not a lot of life in this thread. We need to get this going!!
I think the lifelessness of this thread is due to this project being an extremely daunting task. I'm not commenting out of fear of sounding stupid because the level of expertise to get this accomplished has gone WAY over my head about 10 posts ago. LOL It would be soooo sweet if this is actually possible though.
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      12-03-2008, 10:44 AM   #54
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My theory is the following (in order of criticallity):

1. Finding out if all the connectors are the same respectively between iDrive '08 and '09: controller, CIC/CCC, screen. The assumption is that if the are the same not only the actual physical connection will be straight to a <'08 iDrive vehicle but the pin assignments most probably will be the same. A look at the BMW WDS site can answer this question very quickly...

2. If they are the same, I would start by buying the '09 controller and test it with my CCC. The assumption is that it should work right away as it does in the '09 5 Series, unless there is a major software change in that '09 5 Series CCC that is not possible in the 3 Series CCC. The display will be next, although the higher resolution could make the existing iDrive GUI smaller in the screen.

3. If the connectors are not the same, this retrofit is over at least for me. I'm not cutting any OEM connectors for reason #4.

4. If #2 works, I would get a CIC (new or refurbished at a dealer, the cheaper the better) and would try to get it programmed in a '09 M3 to my particular set of options, specifically Premium Audio/USB/Sat Radio/Assist. This has to be done this way as the CIC will not come programmed for any particular set of options, and plugging it in my '08 M3 to be then programmed will not work as the dealer system most probably will detect it as a non-compatible part for my model year/particular car.

Thus, the hard part will be to find a willing participant with an '09 M3 with iDrive, Premium Audio, USB/iPod, Sat Radio and Assist, swap his CIC with mine and program my CIC to those specs at the dealer in that car. Then remove it from that car, plug that sucker in my car and see what happens. I think that it may work right away as the unit is pretty much self contained. Unless, of course the interface software between the CIC and the rest of the car systems (A/C, MFD) is completely different. By the way, my Assist TCU is the latest GSM unit, so at least hardware-wise that is good to go...

Another option is just swapping parts from the same "willing" '09 M3 owner, but I rather do the programming with my own unit than with another's and at a dealer. So if something bad happens it happens with my unit...

If this works, I can keep the old CCC just in case of any software updates; just swap computers before going to the dealer and perform the update. That's the reason of not hacking any OEM connector, this retrofit has to be as plug 'n play as possible.

BMWNA told me (thru "Customers Relations") that this retrofit cannot be done, but I suspect that it is most probably based on the new software limitations built in directly linked to specific model year and model/equipment included the MOST cars.

Let's see...

Last edited by Technic; 12-04-2008 at 08:40 AM.
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      12-04-2008, 10:19 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
My theory is the following (in order of criticallity):

1. Finding out if all the connectors are the same respectively between iDrive '08 and '09: controller, CIC/CCC, screen. The assumption is that if the are the same not only the actual physical connection will be straight to a <'08 iDrive vehicle but the pin assignments most probably will be the same. A look at the BMW WDS site can answer this question very quickly...

2. If they are the same, I would start by buying the '09 controller and test it with my CCC. The assumption is that it should work right away as it does in the '09 5 Series, unless there is a major software change in that '09 5 Series CCC that is not possible in the 3 Series CCC. The display will be next, although the higher resolution could make the existing iDrive GUI smaller in the screen.

3. If the connectors are not the same, this retrofit is over at least for me. I'm not cutting any OEM connectors for reason #4.

4. If #2 works, I would get a CIC (new or refurbished at a dealer, the cheaper the better) and would try to get it programmed in a '09 M3 to my particular set of options, specifically Premium Audio/USB/Sat Radio/Assist. This has to be done this way as the CIC will not come programmed for any particular set of options, and plugging it in my '08 M3 to be then programmed will not work as the dealer system most probably will detect it as a non-compatible part for my model year/particular car.

Thus, the hard part will be to find a willing participant with an '09 M3 with iDrive, Premium Audio, USB/iPod, Sat Radio and Assist, swap his CIC with mine and program my CIC to those specs at the dealer in that car. Then remove it from that car, plug that sucker in my car and see what happens. I think that it may work right away as the unit is pretty much self contained. Unless, of course the interface software between the CIC and the rest of the car systems (A/C, MFD) is completely different. By the way, my Assist TCU is the latest GSM unit, so at least hardware-wise that is good to go...

Another option is just swapping parts from the same "willing" '09 M3 owner, but I rather do the programming with my own unit than with another's and at a dealer. So if something bad happens it happens with my unit...

If this works, I can keep the old CCC just in case of any software updates; just swap computers before going to the dealer and perform the update. That's the reason of not hacking any OEM connector, this retrofit has to be as plug 'n play as possible.

BMWNA told me (thru "Customers Relations") that this retrofit cannot be done, but I suspect that it is most probably based on the new software limitations built in directly linked to specific model year and model/equipment included the MOST cars.

Let's see...

Wow that's alot of info...
Hopefully my guys at Bmw might be able to shed a little more light into this.
I know most Bmw dealership's won't even waste they're time with this but i know my guys so well that would even be willing to work on it after hours to get this done.
Now the question remains is it even possible...
I'll have to print this page out and see what they say.
I've never been more hopeful about a retrofit/mod then this. So i'll do whatever i can to see if it can be done...
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      12-05-2008, 01:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
My theory is the following (in order of criticallity):

1. Finding out if all the connectors are the same respectively between iDrive '08 and '09: controller, CIC/CCC, screen. The assumption is that if the are the same not only the actual physical connection will be straight to a <'08 iDrive vehicle but the pin assignments most probably will be the same. A look at the BMW WDS site can answer this question very quickly...
Technic- I've attached a pic of the back of the new CIC. The "main" connector that supplies power, k-can, & MOST looks the same. The antenna connectors (#8 is GPS, #11 is radio antenna) look like the same fakra connectors as in the past. (#9 & #10 aren't used in US - I dunno what they are - likely TV or something.) The only difference I see is #1 which is the new LVDS cable to the hi-res CID. (FYI - #2 is the glove box USB connector and #3 is a "ethernet" expansion port which is currently not used.)

Seems like this would be somewhat easy to try if the hardware were available...a new-style CIC, new-style CID (along with the new LVDS cable), as well as the new-style controller (assuming it plugs in like the 1st-gen 4-pin) would be needed to try it.
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      12-05-2008, 06:57 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Technic- I've attached a pic of the back of the new CIC. The "main" connector that supplies power, k-can, & MOST looks the same. The antenna connectors (#8 is GPS, #11 is radio antenna) look like the same fakra connectors as in the past. (#9 & #10 aren't used in US - I dunno what they are - likely TV or something.) The only difference I see is #1 which is the new LVDS cable to the hi-res CID. (FYI - #2 is the glove box USB connector and #3 is a "ethernet" expansion port which is currently not used.)

Seems like this would be somewhat easy to try if the hardware were available...a new-style CIC, new-style CID (along with the new LVDS cable), as well as the new-style controller (assuming it plugs in like the 1st-gen 4-pin) would be needed to try it.
Thank you very much for that photo.

Is that photo from the www.bmwtis.com service? I'm thinking of paying the $30.00 for a day of access to see what I can find.

So I have to assume that the new HD LCD display do not have the same connector as the "old" LCD display?
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      12-05-2008, 11:59 AM   #58
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So I have to assume that the new HD LCD display do not have the same connector as the "old" LCD display?
That is correct. The new CID uses a new 2-wire serial cable - they did away with that big fat 8-wire LVDS cable.
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      12-05-2008, 12:58 PM   #59
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That is correct. The new CID uses a new 2-wire serial cable - they did away with that big fat 8-wire LVDS cable.
Great... the HD screen connector question at least is answered: new cable to CIC.

One down, two to go...
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      12-05-2008, 04:45 PM   #60
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The good news: the CIC and controller connectors and pin assignments are the same as the current CCC and controller connectors.

The not so good news (but not bad) is that VO changes are not possible yet for the CIC to "talk" to current systems. What that means -as explained to me by the service manager of my local dealer, which in fact has been also researching this retrofit for several other customers to my surprise- that it is possible to just plug these components into a CCC vehicle and it will turn on if it was previously coded in another vehicle but it won't talk to the current Assist, Sirius and the 6FL as these components do not have the correct coding for this CIC to interface.

That's the code that an "Activation Code" (FSC) from BMW can only "unlock" to change the VO. No FSC, no functionality of the peripherals with the CIC, much less the substitution of the CCC with the CIC.

It seems that BMWNA is taking a look into this but not for the near future as this manager had previously talked to them about it.
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      12-10-2008, 09:59 PM   #61
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      12-11-2008, 04:11 AM   #62
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Interesting... if there is a cheap retrofit of just the computer components, retaining the current screen and whatnot, that would be appealing to me.
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      12-11-2008, 04:17 AM   #63
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Interesting... if there is a cheap retrofit of just the computer components, retaining the current screen and whatnot, that would be appealing to me.
The current screen will not work, as the new one is twice the resolution and hooks up via a new type of LVDS cable. Nothing about this will be cheap, especially due to the availability of parts. Cheap(er) might be three years down the road...
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      12-11-2008, 01:46 PM   #64
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The current screen will not work, as the new one is twice the resolution and hooks up via a new type of LVDS cable. Nothing about this will be cheap, especially due to the availability of parts. Cheap(er) might be three years down the road...
Ah, then I'm not interested... It would probably make better sense to just buy a newer model.
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      12-11-2008, 04:15 PM   #65
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Ah, then I'm not interested... It would probably make better sense to just buy a newer model.
+1^

If there will be cheaper prices 3 years down the road, my lease will be up by then anyway so i'm prob gonna opt out on this one. Unfortunate too b/c i really love the new iDrive & Navi
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      12-17-2008, 11:13 PM   #66
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Who's gonna bite the bullet on this auction (2 available) !!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/BMW-E90-E91-E93-...713.m153.l1262

I don't have a parts catalog new enough (with the CIC) to know what this part (65829200321) fits... too bad they don't show the underside and what the connector looks like.
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