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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Those W/ Wastegate Rattle Chime In...



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      03-25-2009, 06:55 PM   #23
lablueguitar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinCity89 View Post
I had print out of SIB in hand couple of weeks ago. I have been working on mine for about 3 months now. Any ways BMW engineer had just came through both dealerships here in Vegas. Now that SIB is basically worthless. I talked to service manager and he basically said same thing as bmwtech up top. At this time current SIB does not totally fix the issue in all instances. So at this time I get the joy of driving around with noise. They are suppose to have me on list for when new update comes out, but I have come to realize I get information here faster than my SA.
You're not alone. I had similiar experience.. apparently I was told it's a normal to have that noise.
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      03-25-2009, 07:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lablueguitar View Post
after a field tech was sent out to asset my rattling wastegate, they concluded that noise, rattle during acceleration, "It's Normal", .. I brought them the latest SIB and that didn't help, said they already applied all the fixes during the last visit, HW and Update to it.. mind you the fix was back in june last year, i got updated to 29.2 ... if this is a plan to discourage people from purchasing their lease car, then i think it's working.
i had and HATED 29.2. that BMW software sh*t gave me alot of lag... don´t you feel it?
get that crap out of your car.. bitch and moan about lag to your dealer and you can get updated to 32.1 and make sure they put in the optional wastegate retrofit (fix).

the great stickley thread about lag headed by meyergru is a wealth of info if needed.

edit: hard to understand part of your post... seems like maybe you HAD 29.2 and are now updated.

my 2 cents
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      03-25-2009, 07:24 PM   #25
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      03-25-2009, 07:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
i thought my car was fine and didn't have rattle but it seems i only get the rattle when the car is cold. after the car has warmed up the rattle at idle goes away but, when the car is cold there is a serious metallic clicking noise at idle.

so i must ask to the others that have had the rattle and went to the dealer for update, was it only when car was cold and not warmed up?

first time i noticed the rattle i was both happy and sad at the same time...
guys, need your input re the above:
i have slight ticking sound only after morning cold start .... that is the only time i hear the ticking.
do you guys with the loud clanking sound stat off with slight ticking during cold start (only)?

thanks
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      03-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
guys, need your input re the above:
i have slight ticking sound only after morning cold start .... that is the only time i hear the ticking.
do you guys with the loud clanking sound stat off with slight ticking during cold start (only)?

thanks
It's normal to have slight ticking noise when cold start. It will go away after 1-2 mintue of driving!
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      03-25-2009, 09:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmernupe View Post
What is the Mr. 5 fix?
Use the search option on the top bar to search MR5 posted topic, he fix the rattle by himself without BMW SA.
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      03-25-2009, 09:15 PM   #29
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Wastegate

Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
guys, need your input re the above:
i have slight ticking sound only after morning cold start .... that is the only time i hear the ticking.
do you guys with the loud clanking sound stat off with slight ticking during cold start (only)?

thanks
No thats normal. If you rattle when you let off gas that is noise most are talking about. You will be able to tell the difference with no problem.
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      03-25-2009, 09:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RR80 View Post
It's normal to have slight ticking noise when cold start. It will go away after 1-2 mintue of driving!
if u guys are sure this is normal, i will worry less (i am off waranty in 7 months).
btw, that ticking noise i have with cold starts, is that the wastegates ? - cause it does not sound like injectors.
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      03-25-2009, 11:04 PM   #31
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Don't get me started....

10 months and every sw version you can think of, plus new turbos, new actuators.

I never really cared that much about the rattle. But the funniest thing is, I never had any rattle until I got 29.2, which was supposed to be the fix!!

The rattle is now finally gone with new parts and v32.1, but so is some of the power and gas mileage. Big boo-boo.
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      03-25-2009, 11:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
if u guys are sure this is normal, i will worry less (i am off waranty in 7 months).
btw, that ticking noise i have with cold starts, is that the wastegates ? - cause it does not sound like injectors.
i have a same noise that is coming from left side(driver side) of engine...
talked to shop foreman about that noise...had to drop my car at night and went back to the dealer to confirm that noise with a shop foreman (only happens after morning cold start)...he said clicking noise is coming from Solenoid valve ...we checked 2 other 335s and they were making same clicking noise BUT mine was louder. (click click click vs CLICK CLICK CLICK ) he wasnt sure if it was normal or not...anyways they are going to put a new Solenoid valve and check again...
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      03-26-2009, 01:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife View Post
i had and HATED 29.2. that BMW software sh*t gave me alot of lag... don´t you feel it?
get that crap out of your car.. bitch and moan about lag to your dealer and you can get updated to 32.1 and make sure they put in the optional wastegate retrofit (fix).

the great stickley thread about lag headed by meyergru is a wealth of info if needed.

edit: hard to understand part of your post... seems like maybe you HAD 29.2 and are now updated.

my 2 cents
Thanks I'll look into meyergru's posts. To clarify: I believe they changed the actuators, then upgraded my car to 29.2 during last year's visit. In my previous visit, i brought my SA the March SIB, told him that the car need to be updated to the latest. they looked at the SIB and told me my car has all the updates, nothing more they can do.
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      03-26-2009, 11:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iScream View Post
Don't get me started....

10 months and every sw version you can think of, plus new turbos, new actuators.

I never really cared that much about the rattle. But the funniest thing is, I never had any rattle until I got 29.2, which was supposed to be the fix!!

The rattle is now finally gone with new parts and v32.1, but so is some of the power and gas mileage. Big boo-boo.
you guys have to realize that just getting 32.1 or 32.2 may not fix the lag you are complainging about.

per meyergru in the lag (stickley) thread:

Procedure for vehicles up to September 2007 production:

Using ISTA/P 2.32.1 or a more recent version, (after the software update, go back into 32.1 and) select "Conversions", and then select "Wastegate valve conversion".
Follow the on-screen prompts to reinstall the original waste gate operation.

my note: this wastegate fix and 32.1 cannot be fully installed with the old bmw machines that run the older " bmw programs ...."
your dealer must have the new ISTA machines and ISTA programs.

here is the last page of the lagix thread
warning it is 186 pages now and you may have to dig, but i believe the above is what the dealer needs to know and do.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...47781&page=186

hope this helps
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      03-26-2009, 11:44 AM   #35
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OK guys,

here are the most important parts of the BMW bulliten re lag and lagfix:
(again, all this info is in the lagfix thread link i posted in my previous post):
be sure to concentrate on my highlighted portions below:

SI B11 13 07

Engine March 2009
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B11 13 07 dated February 2009.
designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
N54 Distinct Clanking Noise from Turbocharger Area
MODEL
E90, E92 and E93 (3 Series) 335i and 335xi
E60 and E61 (5 Series) 535i and 535xi
All with N54 engine from the start of production up to January 1st, 2009 production

SITUATION
The customer complains of a metallic noise from the exhaust system near the engine or turbocharger area. This noise is described as a clanking noise, occurring up to six or seven times in a row during a deceleration from approximately 3,500 RPM; or during a heavy application of the accelerator without a drive gear being engaged.
Complaints received regarding a slight rattle from this area under steady acceleration in the 2,000 RPM to 4,000 RPM range are due to the rotating waste gate valve face; this is a characteristic of the mechanical waste gate. The rotating waste gate valve face is necessary to ensure proper sealing. This slight rattle noise is considered normal operation of the mechanical waste gate valve. No repair should be attempted for this type of rattling complaint.

CAUSE
The wastegate valve does not completely close due to the mechanical tolerances of the wastegate actuator. This results in the wastegate valve repeatedly clanking against its seating surface.
PROCEDURE
Vehicles produced from May 2006 up to September 2007
Do not replace the turbocharger or adjust the existing wastegate actuator control rod.
1. Perform DIS Test Plan 120012, Noises at Turbocharger (Path: Fault Symptom – 1200 Engine control –120012 Noises at Turbocharger).
2. The test plan will conclude with an instruction to replace the wastegate actuators; ignore this instruction. Reprogram the DME if the vehicle has not already been programmed to one of the levels described below. Compare the vehicle I-Level to the table below.

Model
Vehicle Data Status
E90, E92, and E93 (335i and 335xi)
E89x-08-03-530 or higher
E60 and E61 (535i and 535xi)
E060-08-03-525 or higher
3. If the vehicle has not achieved one of the levels above, reprogram the vehicle using ISTA/P 2.32.1 or a more recent version.
4. After programming is completed, if the noise is no longer present, take no further action. If the noise is still present, replace both of the turbocharger wastegate actuators in accordance with Repair Instruction RA 11 65 580, Replacing vacuum unit (wastegate) (N54).
Vehicles produced from September 2007 up to March 2008
Do not replace the turbocharger or adjust the existing wastegate actuator control rod.
1. Perform the DIS Test Plan 120012, Noises at Turbocharger (Path: Fault Symptom – 1200 Engine control –120012 Noises at Turbocharger).
2. The test plan will conclude with an instruction to replace the wastegate actuators; ignore this instruction. Reprogram the DME if the vehicle has not already been programmed to one of the levels described below. Compare the vehicle I-Level to the table below.

Model
Vehicle Data Status
E90, E92, and E93 (335i and 335xi)
E89x-08-03-530 or higher
E60 and E61 (535i and 535xi)
E060-08-03-525 or higher
3. If the vehicle has not already achieved one of the levels above, reprogram the vehicle using ISTA/P 2.32.1 or more recent version.

All 335i/xi and 535i/xi models built from June 2006 up to September 2007
The updated software (note 29.2) causes a small amount of increased "turbocharger lag" under certain circumstances and, while not substantial, the lag may be perceptible to the most sensitive BMW drivers. (my note: bmw says the lag was not substantial - ha, ha this bullshit).

X6, 135i, 3 Series and 5 Series vehicles from March 2008 production onward are not affected. If said "turbocharger lag" is a customer's complaint, then the vehicle's DME software can be retrofitted to the original waste gate operation.

Procedure for vehicles up to September 2007 production:

Using ISTA/P 2.32.1 or a more recent version, select "Conversions", and then select "Wastegate valve conversion". Follow the on-screen prompts to reinstall the original waste gate operation.

my note: you first must be updated with 32.1 or 32.2 FIRST, then you have to re hookup the car with the same software to get the wastegated fix OPTION.

After the "Waste gate valve conversion" has been completed, some waste gate-related noise may be detected.

Important Note:
To eliminate the "turbocharger lag" complaint on the vehicles produced from September 2007 up to March 2008 (after programming with Progman versions V29.2 – V32.0), reprogram the complete vehicle, using ISTA/P 2.32.1 or a more recent version.


OK guys, some last notes:
see the last 2 lines of above, and notice that there is no waste gate retrofit to be used for cars produced after sept 07.
this is because bmw redesigned the wastegates after sept 2007 production, so they claim there should be no wastegae (part of the) lag fix.
also note that some owners with cars after sept 2007 production still complain of lag.

also note that cars with production on or before sept 2007 (like me) have the older (possibly difficient) wastegate design.

SURPRISED A FEW OF YOU GUYS WITH LAG ISSUES DO NOT THIS INFO ...

cheers
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      03-26-2009, 11:52 AM   #36
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my car's built date is 09/07 which is MY08...is my car (1)May 2006 up to September 2007? or (2)September 2007 up to March 2008?
so if it is (1) then i would need to update my s/w then wastegate retro fit conversion and if it is (2) then just update the s/w so 32.1?

Last edited by itzkoo; 03-26-2009 at 09:31 PM.
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      03-26-2009, 11:53 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lablueguitar View Post
Thanks I'll look into meyergru's posts. To clarify: I believe they changed the actuators, then upgraded my car to 29.2 during last year's visit. In my previous visit, i brought my SA the March SIB, told him that the car need to be updated to the latest. they looked at the SIB and told me my car has all the updates, nothing more they can do.
you need 32.1 or 32.2 installed first.
... and then they need to go back into your ecu with the same software and give you the OPTIONAL wastegate fix.
if the assh*les at your dealership cannot do this, go to anthother dealer.
under most circumstances (if you complain about lag), dealer should update you for free.

even if you had to pay for the OPTIONAL wastegate retrofit (lagfix), it would be worth it IMHO.

see my bmw SIB bulliten post one up from this.

good luck
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      03-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itzkoo View Post
i have a same noise that is coming from left side(driver side) of engine...
talked to shop foreman about that noise...had to drop my car at night and went back to the dealer to confirm that noise with a shop foreman (only happens after morning cold start)...he said clicking noise is coming from Solenoid valve ...we checked 2 other 335s and they were making same clicking noise BUT mine was louder. (click click click vs CLICK CLICK CLICK ) he wasnt sure if it was normal or not

...anyways they are going to put a new Solenoid valve and check again...
please update us with what happens (clicking noise) after your new soleniod valve is put in.
also, tell us exactly what valve it is or the part number.

thanks
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      03-26-2009, 02:20 PM   #39
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The better fix will be a nice little single turbo setup. My rattle seems to be getting worse.

And a rotating seat? That's rediculous. You'd think that this is the first time this kind of thing has been attempted. In all the miles driven on a stock turbo setup RX-7 of ANY generation (in particular the 3rd gens), I've never heard of any WG rattle. And the valve face was certainly not any rotatating type.
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      03-27-2009, 09:08 PM   #40
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just made an appointment to get this rattle looked at by the dealer and if I have all this down... make sure they give me the 32.2 software update and replace the waste gates? My car is Pre sep 2007 build and still under factory warranty so they shouldn't put up a fuss right?
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      05-05-2009, 01:43 AM   #41
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My 335i was happily running 27.x and running really well. A blown board meant that my dealer took me up to 30.x. It became laggy and rough running.

Upon insistence from me - they reprogrammed it with 33.x and ticked on the wastegate retrofix and my car is running BETTER than before. Smooth and fast.

I'm sure the ticking noise is there - but I'm not going to push it as the car is running so well....
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      05-05-2009, 03:17 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrad01 View Post

Upon insistence from me - they reprogrammed it with 33.x and ticked on the wastegate retrofix and my car is running BETTER than before. Smooth and fast.
how many miles do you have on the fix? I just got my wastegates replaced and they were good for like 20 miles, then the rattle creeped in. I even took it easy on it.
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      05-05-2009, 04:11 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghines1279 View Post
how many miles do you have on the fix? I just got my wastegates replaced and they were good for like 20 miles, then the rattle creeped in. I even took it easy on it.
I have got a slight rattle - but I prefer the rattle to the lag. Note that the wastegate retrofix I refer to here is software - not hardware.
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      05-05-2009, 05:03 AM   #44
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Is there any way to self-test if the noise comes from the wastegates?

My car rattles like there's a rattle snake under it, but only at certain rpms. And it's not a click-click-click noise, but a metallic rattle. I've also read that certain cars got problems with heat shields getting loose
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