E90Post
 


ECS BMW
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > Is It Bad For Bmw If Gm goes Out Of Business



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-31-2009, 01:17 PM   #23
Payroll
Second Lieutenant
 
Payroll's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 e92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: little place called none of your Goddamn business

Posts: 231
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
and what do you propose we do with all the unemployment...you gonna pay them all?
No one pays them - they have to find new jobs. No one is suggesting that it won't be painful, but it's necessary and it will help us to emerge as a leaner, more efficient economy that's better prepared for the future of the world. The free market is always troubled by economic switching costs, but this is one that has been allowed to subsist for too long.
__________________
2008 335i | Space Gray | Blk & Gray Poplar | 6 MT, M3 Lip, Painted Reflectors, Huper Optik 30 (35%), V1 Hardwire, Pussy Magnet
Payroll is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:21 PM   #24
Hedges
Major General
 
Hedges's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 C63 AMG
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 5,181
iTrader: (8)

Less competition , higher prices?
Hedges is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:23 PM   #25
TheSpungos
Private First Class
 
Drives: '08 335i - Montego Blue/Black
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payroll View Post
No one pays them - they have to find new jobs. No one is suggesting that it won't be painful, but it's necessary and it will help us to emerge as a leaner, more efficient economy that's better prepared for the future of the world. The free market is always troubled by economic switching costs, but this is one that has been allowed to subsist for too long.
Agreed. It will clearly be painful. But the American car industry has been treading water for a long time now. GM needs to be a much smaller company to survive and compete. They've proved lately that they can design, engineer, and build a decent car again. Now they need to focus on that, and the only way to be able to do that is to get smaller, leaner, and better organized.

If it doesn't happen now, we're all going to be bailing them out for years to come.
__________________
2008 e92 335i - Montego Blue. 6MT, Sport, Prem, CA, Sirius, CW
TheSpungos is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:24 PM   #26
LuisSF
Major
 
LuisSF's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 128i 6mt m-sport
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,460
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2007 328xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 328skidpad View Post
Lets just say that I pay 10-12 per hour to factory workers (engineering technicians) that are just as qualifed as the workers that are paid 30-50 Per hour at GM. My employees work 8 hrs a day and are often 1099 independent consultants and are much more productive than the GM workers that work 8 hr days and play solitare for 1-2 hrs a day.

yeah, that guy who uses a 1 million dollar robot to put wheels and lugs nuts on GM cars gets paid 30-40 Per hour, plus benefits, external equity, pension etc. Go figure?

I dont think BMW will be affected, actually everyone will just go buy a Ford instead.
We can't really talk on this board about free markets and capitalism as our cars are German, where people-benefits supplied by the state are much greater than our own.

Let's keep it in perspective.

I only wish we had universal healthcare so, say, GM and Ford and Google and the local bookstore could focus on their core business instead of paying for health insurance.
__________________
Would rather take the bus than drive an automatic.
2013 BMW 128i 6MT MGM/CR. M-sport/Premium/Cold, HK, Xenons, Fineline trim, Security System, BMW Assist, BMW SSK and PE. European Delivery 7-12-2013.
SOLD: 2007 BMW 328xi 6MT BSM/Terra
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...future+classic
LuisSF is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:24 PM   #27
noro
Colonel
 
noro's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3 / E46 ZHP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,656
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
and what do you propose we do with all the unemployment...you gonna pay them all?
I do understand what you are saying. But in essence keeping them working, building things that nobody wants seems a bit odd don't you think? I mean let's just pay them and not have them do anything (not being sarcastic). Really, why would you run a factory that consumes earth's resources to build giant metal objects on 4 wheels that sit on dealer parking lots.
__________________
zhpregistry.net - ZHP stats and free classifieds.
noro is offline   Armenia
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:28 PM   #28
TheSpungos
Private First Class
 
Drives: '08 335i - Montego Blue/Black
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedges View Post
Less competition , higher prices?
GM's not going to "go away" completely. They just need to get smaller and more focused. If anything, this will make them more competitive. Think of the money they could put into R&D, quality control, and product development if they didn't have the huge debtload and employment issues they have now.
__________________
2008 e92 335i - Montego Blue. 6MT, Sport, Prem, CA, Sirius, CW
TheSpungos is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 01:34 PM   #29
BK
Smiling politely
 
Drives: 330i
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington DC

Posts: 7,909
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.50]
Other than the obvious PR aspects, Chapter 11 is the best thing GM could do. It seems that they'll try to avoid it or they would have already done it -- but a restructure under the shelter of the b/r laws is IMO a very good thing. The problem is that it would send such a negative signal that purely through market panic, it could dramatically negatively impact other markets.
__________________

330i | Black Sapphire | Beige + Burl | Sport | Premium | Cold | Nav | CA | Sat prep
BK is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 02:04 PM   #30
av8thor
Private First Class
 
av8thor's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 149
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem144 View Post
We can't really talk on this board about free markets and capitalism as our cars are German, where people-benefits supplied by the state are much greater than our own.

Let's keep it in perspective.

I only wish we had universal healthcare so, say, GM and Ford and Google and the local bookstore could focus on their core business instead of paying for health insurance.
What in the hell are you talking about? Of course we can talk about it, we live in a (nominally) free market and probably racked up the scratch to buy our German cars by BEING capitalists.

How the German economy works has NOTHING to do with the discussion.

As for the original discussion, new car sales are only a portion of the business that GM does. There are still millions of GM products on the road that are going to continue to need replacement parts.

The sub contractors that are smart will find alternate markets with other car makers for their parts. Those who can't adapt will die and that is the way the system is supposed to work.
__________________
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual arousal, particularly in women.
Chief among these is the BMW 335i. (with apologies to
P. J. O'Rourke)
av8thor is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 02:07 PM   #31
Lucky13
Lucky13
 
Drives: 2014 M235 manual
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbia, S.C.

Posts: 1,144
iTrader: (0)

It's not going to happen so why worry. They will split it into two companies Cadillac, Chevy, GMC and Buick (because of China) the "good" company and Saab, Saturn, Hummer and Pontiac will be auctioned off. Gov't will guarantee warranty work, bond holders take it in the shorts and union get's what they deserve (reality) like the rest of us. Obama is not going to let the union lose all their jobs he's already working on his re-election. Worry about US bankrupcy not GM.
Lucky13 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 09:05 PM   #32
Mahhvinn
EUROPROJEKTZ
 
Mahhvinn's Avatar
 
Drives: backwards
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Jose, CA (Bay Area)

Posts: 7,908
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
2008 E90 335i  [3.50]
probably. there could be plenty of reasons why it would and would not.
Mahhvinn is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 09:09 PM   #33
ENINTY
Banned
 
Drives: 2006 325i Sport
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia

Posts: 3,415
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
It's not going to happen so why worry. They will split it into two companies Cadillac, Chevy, GMC and Buick (because of China) the "good" company and Saab, Saturn, Hummer and Pontiac will be auctioned off. Gov't will guarantee warranty work, bond holders take it in the shorts and union get's what they deserve (reality) like the rest of us. Obama is not going to let the union lose all their jobs he's already working on his re-election. Worry about US bankrupcy not GM.
Can we throw Obama back into the pond where we found him?
ENINTY is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 09:15 PM   #34
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
 
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (0)

Maybe they'll finally put a proper transmission on the 328.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
-=Hot|Ice=- is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-31-2009, 11:59 PM   #35
BMW335icDDS
Doctor
 
BMW335icDDS's Avatar
 
Drives: RRSport, 335vert, 997 S, Sc430
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles and New York

Posts: 634
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
GM sucks. We need to save them only to save some jobs, but honestly all the people who are hired by GM need to take massive pay cuts. Otherwise kill off this company.
__________________
2002 Lexus Sc430
2007 BMW 335i Convertible Space Gray on Coral Red
2007 Porsche Carrera S
2011 Range Rover Sport HSE Lux
UCLA D.D.S. Columbia University Dental Specialist
BMW335icDDS is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 01:26 AM   #36
tekieru
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 Infiniti G35x
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 121
iTrader: (0)

If BMW merged with VW/Audi/Porsche that would be insane. Four major car companies that are technically one = not good.

Secondly, although my knowledge in economics is very limited, GM dying probably isn't a good thing. I agree with the idea of letting GM become smaller and let them try to produce cars that are fuel efficient and reliable but the company cannot die as a whole. That will surely spell "doom" for the US.
__________________
Audi or BMW?
tekieru is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 01:39 AM   #37
E90 ANdy
Banned
 
Drives: SG E90 325i sport + idrive
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ORLANDO, FL

Posts: 1,207
iTrader: (23)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to E90 ANdy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedal2Floor View Post
Let them fail!

Short term it will be painfull -- long term it will be better. Unless they can shed the legacy costs and thinking, nothing can go forward.

If there is money to be made and a void is created, new money will come in to fill that void.

In any free market system, failure is required to clean up the mess. It is creative destruction at work -- just let it happen!

For most modern companies, nothing changes until they have a heart attack or worse!

+1
E90 ANdy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 01:55 AM   #38
ucdbiendog
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 335xi 4dr
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Millbrae, ca

Posts: 185
iTrader: (0)

I would imagine that the majority of us here on this board that are fortunate enough to drive BMWs are not quite as affected by GM going under as say the thousands of workers that would lose their jobs if it did. So it's very easy for people to say let the free market kill GM when it has little effect on them.

Funny how this went from a "how is BMW affected if GM goes under" thread to "lets discuss the politics and economics of keeping GM alive"
ucdbiendog is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 05:13 AM   #39
fwmcb
Major
 
fwmcb's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 X3 28i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NB

Posts: 1,093
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 128i  [0.00]
yup, no suppliers = no parts.
fwmcb is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 06:12 AM   #40
pony_trekker
Second Lieutenant
 
pony_trekker's Avatar
 
Drives: 535 x drive
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY

Posts: 275
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Ahh, the cornerstone of any capitalist economy.... Except for this one of course. Stupid government.
Yes, maybe we will see a Saab driver or two over here when they can't find replacement throttle bodies.

As far as our economy:

Capitalism when the tickers are green
Socialism when the tickers are red.

Hoard profits.
Share losses.

What a system.
pony_trekker is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 08:15 AM   #41
ragingclue
One cam is enough
 
ragingclue's Avatar
 
Drives: VF
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: mulletville

Posts: 6,774
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Can we throw Obama back into the pond where we found him?
Yes. Please do.
ragingclue is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 09:15 AM   #42
Pedal2Floor
First Lieutenant
 
Pedal2Floor's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i Euro Delivery Fall 2008
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Trumbull, CT

Posts: 307
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson92 View Post
and what do you propose we do with all the unemployment...you gonna pay them all?
Maybe you should examine a little history

There have been many companies and industries that have gone under, workers will move to new jobs and new industries.

At one time before cars there were over 500 companies making bycycles -- what happened to those workers?

At one time, most of the US worked for the railroads -- what happened to those workers?

New England has plenty of previous ghost towns of brass, copper and textile mills -- what happened to those workers? Some of the brass mills have been turned into malls, some of the copper mills are now doing food processing and many of the textile mills are now converted to low cost office space for small businesses especially in the high-tech industries.

There is currently a very high demand for people who can do CNC machining -- many of these people who are displaced could learn and already have many of the skills needed for CNC. Same goes for good auto mechanics, transmission specialists etc. Jay Leno even has a special scholarship fund for these jobs and there is a major deficit in skills in these areas as well as a high demand.

People will move to other industries and jobs -- the only things that stops anyone is a) stubborness to change b) inflexibility to move.

If you have a brain and a will -- nothing will stop you from getting a different job.

We owe these people oppurtunity in terms of education for job retraining and yes some unemployment in the short term -- long term it is up to them. I fail to feel totally bad for many these people who where making 100K/yr as reported by the Detroit News or who sat in Job Pools making 70% of their pay doing nothing but playing poker and now many of those same people are getting 60% of their pay on unemployment. I have no empathy and sympathy for the financially stupid.

Only unions believe you should be guaranteed the exact same job at the same company for life.

As a country, we will all take a hit but it is necessary to flush the system and restart -- prolonging what would have occured naturally serves nobody and will make it worse for everyone. This is problem that has been buliding for years -- sucks is the timing but it was ineveitable and not a surprise.
Pedal2Floor is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 09:18 AM   #43
noro
Colonel
 
noro's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3 / E46 ZHP
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Boston

Posts: 2,656
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Can we throw Obama back into the pond where we found him?
Are you feeling lonely in your little pond?
__________________
zhpregistry.net - ZHP stats and free classifieds.
noro is offline   Armenia
0
Reply With Quote
      04-01-2009, 09:40 AM   #44
darkcloud
Colonel
 
darkcloud's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 VW JSW
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cleveland, oh

Posts: 2,387
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2006 325i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to darkcloud
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Can we throw Obama back into the pond where we found him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Yes. Please do.
You really aren't hearing much from the people who voted for him anymore either.

Sure there are the people who understand and are just keeping their mouths shut, but where are all these crazy smart 18-25 y/o's and african americans that voted for Obama simply because he was the popular or black?

BTW... Anyone watching the current season of Real World on MTV? It's good laughs. One of the kids was in the military and he was soooo pumped about not going to be called backto Iraq if Obama was elected and he was going to pull troops. Well Obama got elected, he got his letter to be reinstated to the army and Obama is sending even more troops over. Ain't that a bitch haha
__________________

retired 06 E90 325i

New: 09 VW Platinum Grey Jetta Sportwagen 2.0T SEL w/DSG, panoramic sunroof and Ipod adapter
darkcloud is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST