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      04-01-2009, 09:49 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by darkcloud View Post
You really aren't hearing much from the people who voted for him anymore either.

Sure there are the people who understand and are just keeping their mouths shut, but where are all these crazy smart 18-25 y/o's and african americans that voted for Obama simply because he was the popular or black?

BTW... Anyone watching the current season of Real World on MTV? It's good laughs. One of the kids was in the military and he was soooo pumped about not going to be called backto Iraq if Obama was elected and he was going to pull troops. Well Obama got elected, he got his letter to be reinstated to the army and Obama is sending even more troops over. Ain't that a bitch haha
Well as far as the guy getting called back to Iraq.... Was he reserves or IRR? If IRR, then it is actually pretty stupid. But if he's a reservist, he's probably like so many other weekend warriors.... Thought he had a free ride through college or whatever else he decided to do. Granted, there are many good reservists, and not all of them fit that description, but I did notice, while I was in, that many of them was their duties as a nuisance.

I think our biggest issue with this last election was that people didn't see through Obama's empty promises. Now, whether that's because they let personal preference get in the way, or if they were just too uneducated to see that he was full of hot air, or if they liked what some Hollywood celebs said about him.... I dunno. I'm kinda clueless. This last election turned into a high school Senior Class President Campaign (popularity contest), and it didn't help that Bush has the IQ and speaking abilities of a kindergartener. McCain got thrown under the bus by his own simply because he ran under the Republican banner, and he made thw worst running mate decision in the history of mankind.

Obama voters, where is this magical "Change"? Where are the processes that will even start it? Maybe the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus will bring them?
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      04-01-2009, 09:58 AM   #46
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People will move to other industries and jobs -- the only things that stops anyone is a) stubborness to change b) inflexibility to move.
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      04-01-2009, 10:36 AM   #47
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Well as far as the guy getting called back to Iraq.... Was he reserves or IRR? If IRR, then it is actually pretty stupid. But if he's a reservist, he's probably like so many other weekend warriors.... Thought he had a free ride through college or whatever else he decided to do. Granted, there are many good reservists, and not all of them fit that description, but I did notice, while I was in, that many of them was their duties as a nuisance.

I think our biggest issue with this last election was that people didn't see through Obama's empty promises. Now, whether that's because they let personal preference get in the way, or if they were just too uneducated to see that he was full of hot air, or if they liked what some Hollywood celebs said about him.... I dunno. I'm kinda clueless. This last election turned into a high school Senior Class President Campaign (popularity contest), and it didn't help that Bush has the IQ and speaking abilities of a kindergartener. McCain got thrown under the bus by his own simply because he ran under the Republican banner, and he made thw worst running mate decision in the history of mankind.

Obama voters, where is this magical "Change"? Where are the processes that will even start it? Maybe the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus will bring them?
Response from an Obama voter:

Changing the course of the way government does things is not like turning an M3 around a cone on an autocross course, its like trying to get the Queen Mary out of an almost completely iced up bay to clearer waters ahead. Slow, with some casualties and pain, but in the end, better than getting stuck in the frozen bay of degregulation(banks!) , policies and politics of the last 8+ years. It took at least that long to have us end up here, and now after 3+ MONTHS you wonder where the change is? Do you stand at the microwave like Homer whining "Doh, why does microwave popcorn take so long?"

As far as the last national election, since the polls showed that the #1 thing on America's mind was the economy, it seems clear that a winning majority thought that the other side had thier chance and screwed it up, lets give the new guy a chance. And, oh yeah, the other thought from rational non cool-aid drinking people was..."Palin? Palin? Are you kidding me? Palin?" Talk about pandering to the extremists in the party. I actually liked McCain (except for his postion on the war).

It's sad that this forum has come to this kind of discussion. I look to this wonderful fountain of knowledge and enthusiasm for BMW as my escape from the day to day stuff, as I research and plan my purchase. Now the party fanboys have to come and shout thier platitudes to the masses and stink up my zen.

I actually see myself as a centrist leaning slightly left. But that position gets no respect in these anonymous forums. It seems you either need to be yelling "drill baby drill" or "(something left wingers shout with equal lack of forthought, knowledge and consequences)".

And when I served, I also noticed a "lack of commitment" of reservist who I worked with.

On with the show.
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      04-01-2009, 10:51 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Well as far as the guy getting called back to Iraq.... Was he reserves or IRR? If IRR, then it is actually pretty stupid. But if he's a reservist, he's probably like so many other weekend warriors.... Thought he had a free ride through college or whatever else he decided to do. Granted, there are many good reservists, and not all of them fit that description, but I did notice, while I was in, that many of them was their duties as a nuisance.
He's IRR
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      04-01-2009, 10:57 AM   #49
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I voted for him and I am quite happy with what he is doing. He was handed a HUGE pile of crap from W and now he has to make crapcakes. I am happy we have a thinking man to deal with this mess, as opposed to an old, begrudged to failed-policies McCain and idiot Palin.

I do wish he would sock it to the banks more, but I think we'll emerge from this stronger because he is our president.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Well as far as the guy getting called back to Iraq.... Was he reserves or IRR? If IRR, then it is actually pretty stupid. But if he's a reservist, he's probably like so many other weekend warriors.... Thought he had a free ride through college or whatever else he decided to do. Granted, there are many good reservists, and not all of them fit that description, but I did notice, while I was in, that many of them was their duties as a nuisance.

I think our biggest issue with this last election was that people didn't see through Obama's empty promises. Now, whether that's because they let personal preference get in the way, or if they were just too uneducated to see that he was full of hot air, or if they liked what some Hollywood celebs said about him.... I dunno. I'm kinda clueless. This last election turned into a high school Senior Class President Campaign (popularity contest), and it didn't help that Bush has the IQ and speaking abilities of a kindergartener. McCain got thrown under the bus by his own simply because he ran under the Republican banner, and he made thw worst running mate decision in the history of mankind.

Obama voters, where is this magical "Change"? Where are the processes that will even start it? Maybe the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus will bring them?
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      04-01-2009, 11:03 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkan View Post
Response from an Obama voter:

Changing the course of the way government does things is not like turning an M3 around a cone on an autocross course, its like trying to get the Queen Mary out of an almost completely iced up bay to clearer waters ahead. Slow, with some casualties and pain, but in the end, better than getting stuck in the frozen bay of degregulation(banks!) , policies and politics of the last 8+ years. It took at least that long to have us end up here, and now after 3+ MONTHS you wonder where the change is? Do you stand at the microwave like Homer whining "Doh, why does microwave popcorn take so long?"

As far as the last national election, since the polls showed that the #1 thing on America's mind was the economy, it seems clear that a winning majority thought that the other side had thier chance and screwed it up, lets give the new guy a chance. And, oh yeah, the other thought from rational non cool-aid drinking people was..."Palin? Palin? Are you kidding me? Palin?" Talk about pandering to the extremists in the party. I actually liked McCain (except for his postion on the war).

It's sad that this forum has come to this kind of discussion. I look to this wonderful fountain of knowledge and enthusiasm for BMW as my escape from the day to day stuff, as I research and plan my purchase. Now the party fanboys have to come and shout thier platitudes to the masses and stink up my zen.

I actually see myself as a centrist leaning slightly left. But that position gets no respect in these anonymous forums. It seems you either need to be yelling "drill baby drill" or "(something left wingers shout with equal lack of forthought, knowledge and consequences)".

And when I served, I also noticed a "lack of commitment" of reservist who I worked with.

On with the show.
Well I didn't expect my comments to be met without ire.... Anyway, I'm not asking where the change is. I'm asking how he's going to make his own deadlines, for example, with the war, when Queen Mary is still steaming straight ahead.

I am actually very much in the middle as far as political views are concerned. I have never put myself under either banner, and I vote for the best candidate given the needs of the country. In that respect, it's easy to keep a good view of what's going on, on what parties are better with what aspects of running a country. If you elected a Dem to turn the economy around, I'm not sure what the basis there is.... And don't bother pointing out Clinton. We aren't sitting on another Silicon Valley here. Obama's reach into the GM hierarchy to fire Wagoner was simply a statement to make people beilieve he's serious about this. Wagoner was far from responsible for where GM is now; in fact some would argue that he's done a lot of things to start GM on the path to wherever it is they need to be.... GM is much like Queen Mary, too, and people need to realize that.

Wagoner's removal wasn't for the benefit of GM. It was to show the corporate world that Obama isn't a pushover. I'd almost liken it to bully tactics. But, as I learned in the Corps, sometimes a show of force can do wonders to influence how subordinates behave. There is a fine line there, though. Looks like Obama is the new "Decider."

You say one of the reasons you voted for Obama is that the Republicans had their shot for 8 years. Time for something new. Well, newer isn't always better.

I hope for the best now that he is in office. I really do. Once the election was over, I dropped all the pre-election issues I had with him, and I now just want the country to be on the road to recovery. I, however, still do have a problem with the promises he made for the Iraq timeline when he KNEW that it was pure bullshit. I don't like the fact that he used the war as leverage, making empty promises.... That strikes a very personal chord with me. I served 3 combat tours over there, close friends did die, even one as recently as two weeks ago.... Sure, we all want the troops home. But you can't use some pipe dream to give AMericans who don't know better false hope. I'm sorry.
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      04-01-2009, 11:04 AM   #51
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He's IRR
Wow then in that case, that does suck. I don't know how to feel about IRR.... It's in the contract, and you know when you sign up that it's a possibility.... I've known plenty of people called back via IRR. Sucks.
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      04-01-2009, 11:06 AM   #52
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I voted for him and I am quite happy with what he is doing. He was handed a HUGE pile of crap from W and now he has to make crapcakes. I am happy we have a thinking man to deal with this mess, as opposed to an old, begrudged to failed-policies McCain and idiot Palin.

I do wish he would sock it to the banks more, but I think we'll emerge from this stronger because he is our president.
You will never find me arguing for W in any way, shape, or form. I have a very deep hatred for him and what he's done to this country.
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      04-01-2009, 11:27 AM   #53
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[quote=ragingclue;4827210]Well I didn't expect my comments to be met without ire.... "

IRE!!! IRE!!! YOU WANT IRE!!!!!??????? I'LL SHOW YOU IRE!!!!!!!!

Just kidding. Despite my reluctance to engage in "politcal" talk on an enthusiast forum, I can appreciate rational discourse on the subject matter rather than "W was a crook and a liar!" and " Obama is a Muslim!", and other pointless crap. But after "defending" and disproving countless forwarded email smear campaigns that ran through my office (I live in a VERY red state), I have come to the conclusion that the smallest minority on earth is the group of people in the very center of the very middle of the politcal debate who cant decide which "way of thinking" is the right way. So we all prattle on to hear ourselves talk and confirm how righteous we are in our course. The reality is most likely that most all of our braying falls on deaf (or dumb) ears, and most political beliefs in the near term are intractable. I do not propose an end to discussion, but just a cognisance of the futility of trying to deprogram your counterpart in the "other" cult.

C'est la vie....
or for the other side
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      04-01-2009, 11:45 AM   #54
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If GM goes under it will be a massive disaster for everyone, not just BMW. While I have always thought GM was a mess, the fact is they are such a huge part of the entire delivery infrastructure of our country. GM provides a majority share of parts and vehicles for just about every delivery system in the US. Now imagine, parts and vehicles for all those companies are no longer available or in short supply. The effects would eventually be overcome, but it would definately be long term and more widespread than most people realize.

That's just the delivery systems - think of all the emergency services as well.
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      04-01-2009, 12:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkan View Post
Response from an Obama voter:

Changing the course of the way government does things is not like turning an M3 around a cone on an autocross course, its like trying to get the Queen Mary out of an almost completely iced up bay to clearer waters ahead. Slow, with some casualties and pain, but in the end, better than getting stuck in the frozen bay of degregulation(banks!) , policies and politics of the last 8+ years. It took at least that long to have us end up here, and now after 3+ MONTHS you wonder where the change is? Do you stand at the microwave like Homer whining "Doh, why does microwave popcorn take so long?"

As far as the last national election, since the polls showed that the #1 thing on America's mind was the economy, it seems clear that a winning majority thought that the other side had thier chance and screwed it up, lets give the new guy a chance. And, oh yeah, the other thought from rational non cool-aid drinking people was..."Palin? Palin? Are you kidding me? Palin?" Talk about pandering to the extremists in the party. I actually liked McCain (except for his postion on the war).

It's sad that this forum has come to this kind of discussion. I look to this wonderful fountain of knowledge and enthusiasm for BMW as my escape from the day to day stuff, as I research and plan my purchase. Now the party fanboys have to come and shout thier platitudes to the masses and stink up my zen.

I actually see myself as a centrist leaning slightly left. But that position gets no respect in these anonymous forums. It seems you either need to be yelling "drill baby drill" or "(something left wingers shout with equal lack of forthought, knowledge and consequences)".

And when I served, I also noticed a "lack of commitment" of reservist who I worked with.

On with the show.
Then why did you vote for Obama? He is as about as far left as you can get. If you don't see him for the Socialist puppet that he is then too bad. For him to think he can basically fire the CEO of GM, and quite a good CEO at that, is pure BS. Getting rid of Wagoner was about the wrongest move to save GM as possibly could have been made.
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      04-01-2009, 12:03 PM   #56
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      04-01-2009, 12:31 PM   #57
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I like Obama more than the average guy, but I am jaded and think the concept of throwing money at the economy is just a way for him to pay back many thousands of Democrat leaders and groups that felt he "owed" them for his meteoric rise to the top.

We thought Bush's ridiculous spending policies were bad. I mean, Bush sucked and all (look at him take the budget surplus in 2000 and turn it into deficits), but Obama just takes that deficit and beats the hell out of it, absolutely annihilating all previous deficit records.

This is what scares me (source is Washington Post):



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032100104.html
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      04-03-2009, 03:35 PM   #58
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It'd be bad and good, of course. Probably more bad because of the fact that they're hardly direct competitors.
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      04-03-2009, 03:40 PM   #59
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You'd be stupid to not see right through the authors "clever" use of words. First of all...no he doesn't like Obama more than the next guy.
Secondly, increased government spending is REQUIRED for an economy to get out of recession. If Bush didn't waste all of the taxpayer dollars, Obama wouldn't have to borrow.

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Originally Posted by BK View Post
I like Obama more than the average guy, but I am jaded and think the concept of throwing money at the economy is just a way for him to pay back many thousands of Democrat leaders and groups that felt he "owed" them for his meteoric rise to the top.

We thought Bush's ridiculous spending policies were bad. I mean, Bush sucked and all (look at him take the budget surplus in 2000 and turn it into deficits), but Obama just takes that deficit and beats the hell out of it, absolutely annihilating all previous deficit records.

This is what scares me (source is Washington Post):



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032100104.html
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      04-03-2009, 04:03 PM   #60
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You'd be stupid to not see right through the authors "clever" use of words. First of all...no he doesn't like Obama more than the next guy.
Secondly, increased government spending is REQUIRED for an economy to get out of recession. If Bush didn't waste all of the taxpayer dollars, Obama wouldn't have to borrow.
Dude, I'm the author of the post, so I assume you mean me. Maybe I like Obama the same as the next guy, but probably more and in any event not less. Like most people, I would classify myself a fiscal conservative, though.

That graph is from the left-leaning Washington Post and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. It's dramatic and shows that as much as Bush wasted money, he was a rookie compared to Obama. It makes me sick.
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      04-03-2009, 04:40 PM   #61
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Caddilac
Cadillac doesn't stand to snag a large portion of BMW's market share. It has a weak reputation worldwide, and only competes with the 5 and 7 anyway. Sure, there is a little bit of competition there, but it's not like Audi or Mercedes who match BMW model-for-model pretty much....
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      04-03-2009, 05:00 PM   #62
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Lets keep the thread ON-TOPIC of the thread. The politics thread is only a skip away.

I'm of the belief that if GM goes out of business, it will be bad for EVERYBODY. Nobody knows exactly whose suppliers are connected to whom exactly. I remember reading 2yrs ago that this new CTS has a lot of interior bits that use the same supplier as Mercedes. GM and BMW shared tranny bits at one time didnt they? I'm not sure if thats the case. BMW manufacturers a few cars in the United States. If GM dies, plenty of suppliers will die. It will put a strain on the remaining ones and will drive the price up for everybody. If I were BMW, I would not want them ''going away."
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      04-03-2009, 06:06 PM   #63
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Cadillac doesn't stand to snag a large portion of BMW's market share. It has a weak reputation worldwide, and only competes with the 5 and 7 anyway. Sure, there is a little bit of competition there, but it's not like Audi or Mercedes who match BMW model-for-model pretty much....
What Cadillac competes with the 7? The only good Caddy is the CTS/-V. Escalade? No. DTS? No STS? No SRX? Good vehicle, lack iuster sales. The new one is good though( although it is FWD ).
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      04-03-2009, 06:10 PM   #64
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no more crappy gm transmissions in bmw's! woohoo, the 128i just got more appealing for the wife
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      04-03-2009, 07:43 PM   #65
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What Cadillac competes with the 7? The only good Caddy is the CTS/-V. Escalade? No. DTS? No STS? No SRX? Good vehicle, lack iuster sales. The new one is good though( although it is FWD ).
Says here the DTS is still offered. I'd kinda consider it a luxo-barge, which would almost kinda put it in direct competition with the 7, but like I said, there's not much direct competition overall.

Like has been posted, the supplier fallout could be pretty devastating and for sure expensive for the industry.
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      04-03-2009, 08:20 PM   #66
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Says here the DTS is still offered. I'd kinda consider it a luxo-barge, which would almost kinda put it in direct competition with the 7, but like I said, there's not much direct competition overall.
Oh I know the DTS is still in production, but in no way do I call it competition to the 7 series. While it is Cadillac's intended 7 series competitor, it really doesn't even come close to compete with the 7.
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