E90Post
 


VIBE Motorsports
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Anyone have link to a stock dyno with AFR's?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-03-2009, 06:22 PM   #1
Lotus99
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Lotus99's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,628
iTrader: (1)

Anyone have link to a stock dyno with AFR's?

Just learning about AFR's and how they work, and was wondering how they are for a stock map.

Saw some in another post for Dinan, and how they're running pretty rich (11's) above 4.5k, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241782 but saw some Procede ones on meth in the 15 to 13 range http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225510.

Learned a bit from this website http://www.bristoldyno.com/tech/airfuel.htm how lower AFR's are safer, but produce less power so I'm now starting to piece things together as to why some of the different tuning options give different power! Feels cool to learn this new stuff!
Lotus99 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 01:51 AM   #2
Lotus99
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Lotus99's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,628
iTrader: (1)

Ok... so I know the stock maps are boring, but are they nowhere to be found with AFR's?
Lotus99 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 02:14 AM   #3
ericosaur
Second Lieutenant
 
ericosaur's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 BMW 335i Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Houston, Texas

Posts: 259
iTrader: (0)

Hi, this is my car's stock dyno. Hope this helps.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176108


Eric
ericosaur is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 05:31 AM   #4
Praemienhai
Private
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany

Posts: 54
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus99 View Post
Just learning about AFR's and how they work, and was wondering how they are for a stock map.

Saw some in another post for Dinan, and how they're running pretty rich (11's) above 4.5k, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241782 but saw some Procede ones on meth in the 15 to 13 range http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225510.

Learned a bit from this website http://www.bristoldyno.com/tech/airfuel.htm how lower AFR's are safer, but produce less power so I'm now starting to piece things together as to why some of the different tuning options give different power! Feels cool to learn this new stuff!
You are right. It is noticeable that probably all respected flash tuner (Dinan, Evotech/Noelle, ESS) are running richer than the piggyback tuner. Especially the tuner with an European backround (who have done long-term high-speed testing on the Autobahn, Nuerburgring-Nordschleife etc) pass on some hp and run al little bit more rich. There will be a reason for that...
Praemienhai is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 06:30 AM   #5
Kelvin1000
Major
 
Drives: 2008 E92 335i Space Gray
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 1,190
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praemienhai View Post
You are right. It is noticeable that probably all respected flash tuner (Dinan, Evotech/Noelle, ESS) are running richer than the piggyback tuner. Especially the tuner with an European backround (who have done long-term high-speed testing on the Autobahn, Nuerburgring-Nordschleife etc) pass on some hp and run al little bit more rich. There will be a reason for that...
Actually, now that the CANbus can clear tuner codes, the new maps run richer... I guess they don't have to stick to the stock A/F to hide the tune anymore.
Kelvin1000 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 03:39 PM   #6
Texas
Private First Class
 
Texas's Avatar
 
Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 153
iTrader: (0)

Two pulls in 4th gear on a 6MT135i with no tune. The only mod is the BMW performance exhaust.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Texas is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-10-2009, 09:57 PM   #7
Curt2000
Colonel
 
Curt2000's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sin City

Posts: 2,451
iTrader: (22)

Forget anything you read about normal port injection A/F ratios...our engines run direct injection that fully atomizes fuel droplets and creates a pure homogeneous mixture in the cylinder which facilitates much tighter control of mixture and means we can tune our cars to the lean limit and in some cases beyond perfect stoichiometric (14.7) safely.
__________________

Current Car: '13 SANTORINI BLUE E92///M3--6MT/Speed Cloth/ZCP (ED Thread)
Former Cars:'10 E90 335i MSport / '07 Interlagos ///M5 / '09 135i / '10 E93 335i
Instagram: @C2KMotorsports
Curt2000 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-11-2009, 08:45 PM   #8
Lotus99
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Lotus99's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,628
iTrader: (1)

Thanks all for posting the stock AFR's. Interesting to see how close to the "perfect" 14.7 they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Actually, now that the CANbus can clear tuner codes, the new maps run richer... I guess they don't have to stick to the stock A/F to hide the tune anymore.
So you mean that by running rich, they would have been risking throwing codes, and ran stock-like AFR's instead? I'd have guessed they were running at the higher-than-flash-tuner-AFR's b/c they wanted to squeeze out all the HP possible... So you think now they'll start running richer than they have been to increase the safety margins?
Lotus99 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-11-2009, 08:46 PM   #9
Lotus99
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Lotus99's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

Posts: 1,628
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt2000 View Post
Forget anything you read about normal port injection A/F ratios...our engines run direct injection that fully atomizes fuel droplets and creates a pure homogeneous mixture in the cylinder which facilitates much tighter control of mixture and means we can tune our cars to the lean limit and in some cases beyond perfect stoichiometric (14.7) safely.
So why are the flash tuners running so rich?
Lotus99 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-13-2009, 09:55 PM   #10
akira42
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2007 335i 6MT, Custom Flash
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Newport Beach, CA

Posts: 184
iTrader: (1)

bump
akira42 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-13-2009, 10:15 PM   #11
Curt2000
Colonel
 
Curt2000's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sin City

Posts: 2,451
iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus99 View Post
So why are the flash tuners running so rich?
Because the closer to 14.7 you get the more unstable the combustion is...the combustion time is fastest at 14.7 thus leaving little error for timing variance.

Ideally you would want the combustion to start a split second before the piston reaches apex on the compression stroke and reach full combustion a split second after the apex of the piston (transition from compression stroke to power stroke)

When you move away from 14.7 your combustion time lengthens which facilitates a larger amount of allowable error at the expense of power because the peak of the power produced by the combustion comes further after the apex of the piston depending on your timing setting.

When flash tunes are dealing with the BMW computer, which is finely tuned from the factory for the factory settings, they want a large margin of error in higher RPM's especially when they are ramping up the boost because they are taking timing and boost pressure into their own hands.

You will notice that piggyback tunes have near identical A/F's to stock because they are simply altering inputs to the computer algorithm, but the stock software is still operating under the same tolerances.
__________________

Current Car: '13 SANTORINI BLUE E92///M3--6MT/Speed Cloth/ZCP (ED Thread)
Former Cars:'10 E90 335i MSport / '07 Interlagos ///M5 / '09 135i / '10 E93 335i
Instagram: @C2KMotorsports
Curt2000 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST