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      04-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #45
doughboy
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Nah, I don't think so. They will void the warranty on any failure of a part related to the modification - but modifying the suspension won't void the engine or drivetrain warranty.

Jack
Yeh, ok engine and drivetrain should still be OK with suspension mods.

Have they confirmed that in writing? I asked about fitting the E90 BMW performance suspension to my E91 (they don't make an E91 kit), hoping that would be OK as its 'approved parts'.

Even that would void the warranty on all problems 'that could be attributed to overly firm suspension', including he said all unsprung items (hubs, wishbones, control arms etc) brakes and ABS and steering rack etc. Also even interior fit and finish issues, along with electronics failures 'due to vibration'

It also voids the GAP insurance I took out, which to honest concerns me more that the warranty. I looked at loads of GAP policies and they all exclude any non approved mods.

I'm probably going for the DMS mod, i'll tell my main insurers, but i'll take my chances with the dealers, they'll never know.
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      04-22-2009, 06:41 AM   #46
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I haven't got it in writing but I'm very confident that the onus would be on BMW to reject a warranty claim on the engine and drivetrain and prove that my mods caused it. I fully accept the other issues that you mention because they could quite plausibly be caused by my modifications and I'll take my chances there.

It's strange that you're concerned about those mods and yet you'll probably do the DMS mod as that definitely does affect your engine and drivetrain and they are by far the most costly parts of the car and also probably more likely to go wrong.

Cheers

Jack
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      04-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #47
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The GAP issue concerns me more, car gets nicked / written off and I could be 10K+ in the red, much more likely and more costly than an new engine IMO.

From reading on here 99.9% of warranty issues are electrical / squeaks / rattles, no engine failures as far as i know. Only the known turbo failures on 335i's which are a straight replacement - no questions asked.

But you're right - the risk is always there
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      04-22-2009, 05:04 PM   #48
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Hi Jack

I know your car quite well I think - black 135i, Quaife diff, Dinan intercooler, Hartge suspension and rollbars...??

You've seemingly gone about improving your car the same way as I did - make sure everything works within tolerances, handling is spot on etc etc before upping the power. Now that you're considering the power, you actually have four options - Birds/Dinan, DMS, Evolve, and BMW.

I think we can discount the last option - BMW - as it really isn't a valued upgrade. All the other remaps, whether the Dinan from Birds, the DMS, or the Evolve, are all much of a muchness. Yes, there are degrees of differences between them, but to be honest the power output is pretty similar. Driveability, or rather the way the car drives, will be a little different, as each tuner has a different philosophy on how to best extract power and torque out of an engine.

When I remapped my car, I went with DMS largely because I have a fairly long history with them and I had very specific requirements for what I wanted to do which I know DMS could fulfill. That is in no way disrespectful to Evolve - at the time that was the best option for me. Kevin had just started with the Dinan software, but it was new to the UK at this stage and it required the ECU sending over to the USA for programming. it was a fairly laborious process. And expensive too!

However, there is the very valid issue of warranty - the Dinan tune comes with a US/Canada warranty, that theoretically is extended to the UK as well given there is now an official supply deal. The main issue with the Dinan tune has always been one of cost - compared with Evolve and DMS, it was much more expensive. Obviously the cost includes the benefits of the warranty, and that can't be overlooked. However the cost was high also due to the fact that ECUs had to be sent across to Dinan in the States, then sent back, with customs duty on top!!

I do know however that Dinan are very soon coming to the UK with their new programming tool, so that Birds will be able to program the Dinan tune onto ECUs directly from their workshop. The price of the Dinan tune in the UK is set to come down quite considerably, and this will put a very different spin on things.

In terms of reliability, my car is pushing out a monstrous amount of power and torque, and it is doing it completely without fault. I have made ongoing changes, for instance using catless downpipes, and the remap has always adapted to suit. Evolve, Birds and DMS all offer different states of tune, from 360hp upwards to about 390hp. You have to decide how far you want to take your car, and also you must bear in mind what sort of use you're going to put your car through.

One major word of caution - if you are planning on tracking your car extensively on the more demanding circuits (not little ones like Brands or Thruxton, but like Spa or the 'Ring) then you will find very quickly that your car will overheat due to the limited capability of the standard oil cooler that BMW specify. This was apparent on my car even when the mapping was standard - the oil temps reached almost 140 degrees C - limp mode is achieved when oil reaches 147 degrees - it's far too hot!! If you map the car to 380 let's say, you really will see oil temps rising, despite the fitment of the intercooler. What you will need is to upgrade the oil cooler - Kevin has multiple options available to you, from the Dinan being the most expensive to other alternatives a fair bit cheaper. I use one from the States, not Dinan, and it is supremely effective - oil temps regardless of how hard I push never go above 130 degrees max - normal driving sees it stay around 105 or so.


So, at the end of all this, what do I think you should do?? Well, given you've already gone down the Dinan route, it makes sense for you to stay with the brand and get a Dinan tune. You know it will work with the intercooler, there's the warranty aspect, and the cost is going to come down once the programming tool arrives in the UK. I know the approximate schedule, but it is still to be confirmed so I won't mention it for now. I suggest you get back to Kevin and discuss it further.

And if you do decide to go with Evolve or DMS you won't go wrong either
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      04-22-2009, 05:31 PM   #49
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Yep that's me. Kevin hasn't let you drive it has he

Thanks for your info - I think I know what to do..........

Cheers

Jack
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      04-22-2009, 05:33 PM   #50
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Yep that's me. Kevin hasn't let you drive it has he

Thanks for your info - I think I know what to do..........

Cheers

Jack
Think only Carlos has had a go.
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      04-22-2009, 05:38 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Yep that's me. Kevin hasn't let you drive it has he

Thanks for your info - I think I know what to do..........

Cheers

Jack
No, he hasn't let me drive it - apparently it was way too hard and rode like a skateboard when I last saw it... not my first choice of ride quality to be honest!!! Glad it's been rectified now though as I understand ?? I'll be at Birds tomorrow if you're around and want to pop in...!


Tony
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      04-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #52
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Yes, I know you're going to be there - I really can't make it as I'm at work in North London. Uxbridge is quite a trek for me - but well worth it.

Yes, the suspension is fully sorted now - but I just don't trust Hartge anymore - I think they're trading on their name but their stuff is mainly crap (just muy opinion).

Jack
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      04-22-2009, 06:11 PM   #53
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Yes, I know you're going to be there - I really can't make it as I'm at work in North London. Uxbridge is quite a trek for me - but well worth it.

Yes, the suspension is fully sorted now - but I just don't trust Hartge anymore - I think they're trading on their name but their stuff is mainly crap (just muy opinion).

Jack
The Hartge stuff is actually very good, and very well made - the rollbars are absolutely fantastic for example. I just think that with the latest round of suspension they have got the fronts absolutely spot on, but the rears are too stiff by maybe 20-30%. They're fine for Germany, but not the UK. I do understand however that there might be further developments on that....
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      04-24-2009, 03:15 PM   #54
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E92Fan, pls divulge more on the oil cooler upgrade?

Your car will not pass MOT test without the cats I assume. How will you get around this?
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      04-29-2009, 03:27 PM   #55
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There are two sets of cats on these cars. The Mods tony (and others ) Have done only remove the front set.

We've then re-located the Lambda sensors behind the seconday cats, so the computer see Catalysed exhausts... nifty really

There seem to be definite differences between how the lambdas work on the US models versus the Uk ones we've played with. For instance the "lambda sims" that the US guys use and wire into the ECU to trick the lambda sensors DO NOT seem to work on our cars, both mine and Tony's still caused limps, hence why we re-routed the sensors themselves.

SJ
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      05-02-2009, 10:27 AM   #56
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There are two sets of cats on these cars. The Mods tony (and others ) Have done only remove the front set.

We've then re-located the Lambda sensors behind the secondary cats, so the computer see Catalysed exhausts... nifty really

There seem to be definite differences between how the lambdas work on the US models versus the Uk ones we've played with. For instance the "lambda sims" that the US guys use and wire into the ECU to trick the lambda sensors DO NOT seem to work on our cars, both mine and Tony's still caused limps, hence why we re-routed the sensors themselves.

SJ

Jimbob I think you're right - the different emissions requirements I think are requiring the secondary lambda probes on US cars to return a differenet voltage than what the UK/European cars are expecting. Hence why I think the O2 sims that we got from the States actually pulled the ghost voltage too low and we ended up with limp modes. Relocating the secondary sensor behind the main cats is actually a much more elegant solution, as it doesn't require any buggering about with the ECU wiring.
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      05-04-2009, 05:22 AM   #57
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By removing the cats at the front, will your cars still pass the MOT emission test?

I'm still very keen to read one of E92Fan's review of his oil cooler upgrade
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      05-04-2009, 05:26 AM   #58
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Yup, the car will pass the MOT test - the main (secondary) cats are still in place so the MOT centre's lambda probe will still see a catalysed exhaust within the legal emissions boundaries...

And an oil cooler review will be coming...!
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      05-04-2009, 10:46 AM   #59
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i made 383 hp to the wheels and 409 torque with the AA processor which is a old tune
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      05-04-2009, 10:53 AM   #60
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i made 383 hp to the wheels and 409 torque with the AA processor which is a old tune
How many times you experianced ''Limp''...??
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      05-05-2009, 04:19 AM   #61
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While were on the subject of catless DPs..

please could someone advise if -

It would be better to get them installed pre remap

Are the DPs something you should notify your insurers of, and if so what kinda boost to the annual premium am I looking at ( ball park figure would be nice )

Am i correct in saying the DPs would only better the engine, i.e not cause extra stress / problems to the engine and exhaust.

Do the catless DPs change the exhaust note in anyway ?

Ive no mads what so ever at present, but really want to start increasing performance safely.

all advise is appreciated
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      05-05-2009, 04:51 AM   #62
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Makes no real difference pre-or-post remap - I'd say pre myself as then you can get a custom remap done specific to your engine, but then I did it the other way round, so what do i know?!!

My insurers didn't care about the DPs - it's not a visible part of the car so it won't increase it's 'value' to thieves. And the insurance company won't understand that it increases performance.... my insurance company (Direct Line) lumped all the mods (bar the remap) together and charged an extra 50.

DPs will only better the engine, in that it will reduce the back pressure on the turbos so that they spin more freely. However, it does also mean that you will lose one set of catalysts, so the secondary cats in the middle of the main exhaust will be doing more work, and will deteriorate marginally quicker.

Catless DPs to change the sound - it makes the turbo spool a little more noticeable, and gives a throatier sound to the engine under revs. Not very loud though - you won't get people turning heads thinking wondering what's going on...

With catless DPs you will also need to do one of the following - a) either relocate the rear lambda probe sensors to behind the secondary catalysts; or b) install 02 simulators in the ECU box.

SerJames and I strongly suggest you follow the first option - relocate the sensors. The reason is that then you don't need to mess about rewiring the ECU. Also, the resistance modification of the O2 simulators is not exactly correct for the UK market - works fine in the US, but we sometimes get limp codes here because the voltage change is 'out of bounds'.



You essentially have two options for downpipes - RissRacing and AR Design. I personally think you should stay away from the RissRacing pipes - when being installed on SerJames' car, we discovered they didn't fit properly first time in and also aren't really engineered for right hand drive cars (our steering rack placement is different to the left-hand-drive cars and there's a chance it will foul against the top lambda probe location). These problems may have been eradicated now since they were installed on SerJames' car - Evolve might be able to shed more light on this, but from speaking to RissRacing distributors in the States, it seems that there are still 'communication' and fitment issues that still need addressing

(This is NO reflection on Evolve - this is an issue that lies solely at the feet of RissRacing)

The alternative is that you go for AR Design, where like RissRacing you also have the option of buying high-flow catted downpipes (and engineered specifically for right-hand-drive specific configuration). The advantage of this is that there's no need to relocate lambda probe sensors, as you're not eliminating the front cats. Also, being high-flow versions you get most of the power gain of catless DPs, without any of the hassles! I brought a set of catless AR Design pipes into the UK for my car, and had them fitted at Birds (who also installed the RissRacing pipes on SerJames' car and hence discovered a few 'issues'). Birds were so impressed that they ordered a high-flow catted version for their own demonstrator, and as a result are now importing AR Design products (downpipes and oil cooler) into the UK. I'll be doing a review of the AR pipes in due course - keep an eye out... For Birds, contact www.birdsauto.com - or call and ask for Kevin Bird.
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      05-05-2009, 05:03 AM   #63
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E92fan - you the man, many thanks for that.

Am gonna go ahead with this, probably with Evolve.

** Edit -

OK, having read E92fans complete post, Ive decided on AR DPs, also, a useful thread I found supporting his statement -

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250515

thanks again !

Last edited by Joyrida; 05-05-2009 at 08:25 AM.
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      01-31-2012, 09:02 AM   #64
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What a brilliant thread.

I was just googling for info on 335's (i'm looking at getting an E90), and stumbled accross this.

Just because of this, i've now joined. Hopefully there's some more info as good as this on here!

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      01-31-2012, 06:37 PM   #65
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What a brilliant thread.

I was just googling for info on 335's (i'm looking at getting an E90), and stumbled accross this.

Just because of this, i've now joined. Hopefully there's some more info as good as this on here!

LOL..old thread!...but very very entertaining and makes me want a remap aswell!!!....

shame , Tony is not on here as often!...I miss those reviews!!!
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      02-01-2012, 04:57 AM   #66
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LOL..old thread!...but very very entertaining and makes me want a remap aswell!!!....

shame , Tony is not on here as often!...I miss those reviews!!!
+1

And it's been a loooong time since he had the DMS remap on his car. He has replaced it quite a while ago with a PROcede as DMS did not have a remap adapted to upgraded turbos.

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