E90Post
 


European Auto Source
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BT Speed Delimiter Operational



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-22-2009, 07:29 PM   #67
battlehawk1025
battlehawk1025
 
battlehawk1025's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335XI 6mt, SL 65 , M6
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: wilmette/chicago,IL

Posts: 882
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzchen View Post
There should be a Reset ECU or ECU Reset in the Commands section. You need to set the speed you want and then somehow Reset the ECU. It was missing and I cannot confirm it is there yet. There is also a way to reset it via Command Console: type in "11,01" without the "" marks, and press Enter. I'm a little scared to try this Command Console, for 5mph that I'll probably never use anyways.
okay thanks
battlehawk1025 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 07:35 PM   #68
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,628
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzchen View Post
There should be a Reset ECU or ECU Reset in the Commands section. You need to set the speed you want and then somehow Reset the ECU. It was missing and I cannot confirm it is there yet. There is also a way to reset it via Command Console: type in "11,01" without the "" marks, and press Enter. I'm a little scared to try this Command Console, for 5mph that I'll probably never use anyways.
Hmm.. I have to look into that. When I pressed change to whatever value the light started flashing as if it was doing something so I assumed it coded it without needing to press reset ECU?

Have to look into this some more. I think the 235 is just what the menu defaults to no matter what you have as the value in the ECU.

Mike
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 08:26 PM   #69
jzchen
Captain
 
Drives: 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arcadia, CA

Posts: 633
iTrader: (0)

This is strange. The two values it should be are 243 and 206 from the list that was given (by DMETune) and the BMW Brochure for the 3 series. I asked Duram if the reading could be wrong and he said he is 100% sure it is correct. (Mine says 243 but it should be 206 because I don't have the sports package.) Must be a standard interface to the ECU he is using, the command console aside that is.

If you have any issues you should email BT, because they are really wonderful at answering questions quickly! I kind of jumped the gun on this tool before doing any research on a GT1, for example, but their help has made me at ease! (They seem really quick at fixing their bugs as well.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Hmm.. I have to look into that. When I pressed change to whatever value the light started flashing as if it was doing something so I assumed it coded it without needing to press reset ECU?

Have to look into this some more. I think the 235 is just what the menu defaults to no matter what you have as the value in the ECU.

Mike
Well, they say 80% of the people use a PC vs. Mac, and I don't know much about Macs so here's my shot at explaining it, hopefully you use a PC or the same goes for Macs. The ECU is basically a computer. You download a Windows Update, and then it says please restart to have the changes take effect. (Maybe this is common sense to me because I was a CECS major for a while.)

Last edited by jzchen; 04-22-2009 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Answer to reset.
jzchen is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 08:52 PM   #70
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,628
iTrader: (86)

I spoke to Duram and here is the official position on this feature

After you make a change to the coding you have to reset the ecu by clicking on commands->Reset ECU otherwise the change will only be there until the next time you start the car.

This is what I was seeing. I didn't restart the car so the change was made but once the car is restarted it disappears.

Hope that clarify's it for everybody

So to summarize...

1) The BT PRO tool can code the ECU Speed Limiter to 155MPH/250 km/hr which is what all the guys with the ZSP have. This makes this really useful for people without the ZSP who want their speed limiter raised.

2) You have to reset the ECU to make this change permanent

3) This only works with the PRO version

Mike

Last edited by Mike@N54Tuning.com; 04-22-2009 at 09:08 PM.
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 08:55 PM   #71
Septro
Banned
 
Drives: '08 e90 335xi
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: C-Bus, OH

Posts: 1,649
iTrader: (1)

So DMETune was correct that you can't actually remove the speed limit with the BT tool, only just select the already coded values that come stock with the N54..

Mad bad to DMETune.. I never doubted you (promise not once, ok may be just a little)
Septro is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 09:08 PM   #72
jzchen
Captain
 
Drives: 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arcadia, CA

Posts: 633
iTrader: (0)

I'm sure you can erase the limiter. Dinan does it. It is not a new ECU they are installing. The manual DMETune is showing is what is available through the interface given by Siemens. The low level command console is a whole different story. The question is not whether you can or not, it is how to do it! BT has to be careful and protect it's customers from possibly damaging their ECUs. They are a diagnostic tool company first, not a tuner.

Last edited by jzchen; 04-22-2009 at 09:17 PM. Reason: Clarity
jzchen is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 10:09 PM   #73
MrWhite1015
Major General
 
MrWhite1015's Avatar
 
Drives: MINIVAN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Westchester NY

Posts: 6,020
iTrader: (21)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to MrWhite1015
i wonder if there is a way that we can use the BT tool to make the spedo display the actual speed we are going not the 5-10 mph higher it actually shows
__________________
MrWhite1015 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 10:27 PM   #74
exidisjon
PuffPuffPass
 
exidisjon's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335xi AW/Saddle
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NJ

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer335i07 View Post
+1

My top speed is only 130.

I didn't get the zsp, but I have all the zsp components in my car now. All I need is the speed limiter removal. Not that I will ever go past 155, but at least I can go past 130. LOL!

+1....
And not that i race often but sometimes the races dont start till about 110mph.in MEXICO that is.

And other than that im sure if there is abuse with the BT scanner and dealers notice it, They will somehow come up with a restriction to it to prevent people using the BT scanner. Not sure if BT scanner conflicts with any copyrights from BMW. Even if BMW somehow blocks a way to use BT scanner BT company can do the same and crack it again.
I think way too many people take the 335 as a toy with cheap add ons. Lets not spoil ourself now.. Im so thankful i dont need to buy myself or find a GT1 scanner anymore.

AND lets not forget.. 80+WHP for less than $1g in soome cases is just CRAZY...+Not voiding warranty.
exidisjon is offline   South Korea
0
Reply With Quote
      04-22-2009, 11:28 PM   #75
PKumarM3
Air India
 
Drives: 2003.5 BMW M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NJ

Posts: 1,748
iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to PKumarM3
hahahah

e9x guys are nuts

thanks for this info

i bought the BT Enthusiast exclusively to clear codes before i take my car to the dealer for warranty work. I have no desire to take my car past 140mph.
__________________

2014 Porsche Cayman S
PKumarM3 is offline   India
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 02:41 AM   #76
DMETune
 
Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

Jim and I conducted a few tests tonight and have been unable to change the Vmax (speed limiter) at all using the BT software and Pro cable.

I'll lay out the testing method here. Perhaps your results will be different, or perhaps not?

It was established earlier that the VMax cannot be removed by recoding the DME, but rather, can be changed to one of four pre-programmed values. It's important to note that DME Tune, Dinan, and others 'delimit' vehicles in the ROM rather than within the non-volitile memory that is targeted with recoding. Within the DME code, there is a restriction that states that any recoding must be done within the first ~53 minutes of total run time (TRT), or after about 13 years of operation (no joke). This stipulation begs the following questions:

1.) Is the BT software somehow resetting TRT and therefore allowing recoding? This would impact fault codes as they, among other systems, rely on TRT to track when faults occurred. Resetting TRT would also likely set off warning bells to a service advisor who encountered a 2007 vehicle with 30k miles and only 6 hours of TRT.

2.) Is there a bug in the DME software that doesn't enforce the TRT restriction? Unlikely, but not impossible.

We decided to find out using a simple test that you can perform if you have the Pro cable.

First, we needed to find out my TRT value. We did this by using the Command Console and entering "21,C3" (without quotes). The returned value was "61,C3,01,6B,0E,59" which translates to 660 hours.

Next, we obtained my exising "speed limiter index" value by entering "22,30,10" into the Command Console. The result was "62,30,10,01."

So using the BT recode tool, I changed my speed limiter to the lowest value in the dropdown list, 206, and rechecked my speed limiter index using "22,30,10" again. It was unchanged, "62,30,10,01."

You're probably thinking to yourself that I need to reset something, right? Well, we then went into the Commands area and reset the "Run Time" selection because, after all, the pesky TRT value is what's stopping us from recoding, right? Another check of the TRT value using "21,C3" returned the pre-existing 660 hours, and the speed limiter index remained unchanged as well.

Thoughts welcome.
DMETune is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 03:04 AM   #77
enrita
Major General
 
enrita's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

Posts: 7,323
iTrader: (0)

On Autobahn i hit 265 km/h (255 on gps) and was only 4500 rpm... i would have loved to push it to 300 since there was no traffic, perfect conditions and a nice long straight. The car felt incredibly stable . Of course this kind of speeds need to be done when allowed and depending on conditions.
Did you guys know that BMW actually passes 250 for a short while and than adjust to 250 so that it allows to pass the Audis on the Autobahn? Funny huh?
__________________
07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - midpipes 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina AT Flash
enrita is offline   Sweden
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 03:16 AM   #78
Bimmer335i07
BK Employee of the month! / Moderator
 
Bimmer335i07's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 335i Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ...

Posts: 15,801
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwahlert View Post
where did you manage to find a set of ZSP seats? i could use a set myself.
I was just in the right forum at the right time.

__________________

Sponsored by: Pics of the ---> Barbera Beast <---
Martino Auto Concepts (Like them on Facebook MAC) Factory Trained & Authorized by BMW of North America

Matt@Camber-Toe (Like them on Facebook Camber-Toe)
LuxAngelEyes (Like them on Facebook LuxAngelEyes)
LTBMW (Like them on Facebook LTBMW)
OEMconcepts (Like them on Facebook OEMconcepts)
Bimmer335i07 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 04:59 AM   #79
jzchen
Captain
 
Drives: 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arcadia, CA

Posts: 633
iTrader: (0)

No reset ECU button? It's supposed to be there. If it isn't, let Duram know. Yes, you need to reset the computer, not just the time, the whole thing. You need to reboot so to speak, otherwise you just wrote it into memory but it didn't load. I guess another way you could try is to select the value you want, exit, then unplug the car battery, unless the ECU has it's own battery, then you're screwed. Anyways, let BT do the work, they say this change between the 4 values should work, and I believe them. When I first tried there was no coding at all, a few days later, whala...

To me, ROM and non-volatile memory are the same thing, so can you clarify. ROM is read only memory, a type of non-volatile memory, more specifically that which doesn't disappear when you remove power.

How does it determine run time. For example, if I set the clock on my car back to when the car was produced, does it take effect, or if I set it to 13 yrs. later??? There is such a thing as speeding up the clock for another example, reminds me of overclocking a computer, just increase voltage, if you dare...

Coding at what level. There are a few levels to consider, there is the one given to the interface user, like windows when you boot it up, that is controlled by the manufacturer. There is also coding underneath at the assembly language level, or at what is called machine language. If you can get to the machine language and change it, you can do anything, (this being the 1s and 0s that the computer reads.) Since you already gave me two conditions where recoding can occur, early and late in life so to speak, I know that it can be changed, just have to figure out how.

Bottom line, if you can figure out where the value TRT is stored, and manipulate it, you can do anything right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMETune View Post
Jim and I conducted a few tests tonight and have been unable to change the Vmax (speed limiter) at all using the BT software and Pro cable.

I'll lay out the testing method here. Perhaps your results will be different, or perhaps not?

It was established earlier that the VMax cannot be removed by recoding the DME, but rather, can be changed to one of four pre-programmed values. It's important to note that DME Tune, Dinan, and others 'delimit' vehicles in the ROM rather than within the non-volitile memory that is targeted with recoding. Within the DME code, there is a restriction that states that any recoding must be done within the first ~53 minutes of total run time (TRT), or after about 13 years of operation (no joke). This stipulation begs the following questions:

1.) Is the BT software somehow resetting TRT and therefore allowing recoding? This would impact fault codes as they, among other systems, rely on TRT to track when faults occurred. Resetting TRT would also likely set off warning bells to a service advisor who encountered a 2007 vehicle with 30k miles and only 6 hours of TRT.

2.) Is there a bug in the DME software that doesn't enforce the TRT restriction? Unlikely, but not impossible.

We decided to find out using a simple test that you can perform if you have the Pro cable.

First, we needed to find out my TRT value. We did this by using the Command Console and entering "21,C3" (without quotes). The returned value was "61,C3,01,6B,0E,59" which translates to 660 hours.

Next, we obtained my exising "speed limiter index" value by entering "22,30,10" into the Command Console. The result was "62,30,10,01."

So using the BT recode tool, I changed my speed limiter to the lowest value in the dropdown list, 206, and rechecked my speed limiter index using "22,30,10" again. It was unchanged, "62,30,10,01."

You're probably thinking to yourself that I need to reset something, right? Well, we then went into the Commands area and reset the "Run Time" selection because, after all, the pesky TRT value is what's stopping us from recoding, right? Another check of the TRT value using "21,C3" returned the pre-existing 660 hours, and the speed limiter index remained unchanged as well.

Thoughts welcome.
jzchen is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 05:05 AM   #80
kaba
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: BMW 335i steptronic, conv. E93
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Posts: 33
iTrader: (0)

So it doesnt work really ..

i tried last summer on autobahn the top speed and got 259km/h with GPS. Had the TOP DOWN ..
kaba is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 05:22 AM   #81
jzchen
Captain
 
Drives: 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arcadia, CA

Posts: 633
iTrader: (0)

Dude, I really need to sleep, otherwise I'll have a tough time with my son tomorrow.

To er is human, that is we as humans make mistakes.

If I were the maker of this ECU, I would make a loophole code that would allow me to change anything, since if I made some mistake, I wouldn't want to have to recall all the ECUs for example, (just because the TRT doesn't let me do anything until 13 yrs. later.) That would be crazy, I'd want a cheap and efficient way to fix it.

I'm betting Dinan or others have a decompiler or something that allows them to know this code/commands.

The manual given by the manufacturer is probably not complete. Find the hidden commands somehow...
jzchen is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 10:26 AM   #82
ultimateendz
Vengeance is mine, I shall repay
 
ultimateendz's Avatar
 
Drives: X3, CTS-V coupe
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NJ

Posts: 4,656
iTrader: (1)

so can someone without a ZSP please confirm if this works or not...I have to wait until tomorrow to find out....
__________________
Project: Vengeance[ACM's King of domestics, STOCK:501whp 489wtq | 2.9L whipple stock bottom end: 706whp 688wtq] Callies Compstar motor build:NEXT
ultimateendz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 10:41 AM   #83
jzchen
Captain
 
Drives: 335xi Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arcadia, CA

Posts: 633
iTrader: (0)

Mine didn't work as of Monday, but car is still at the dealer. I don't have ZSP, but it read 243 km/hr just like a ZSP is supposed to...
jzchen is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 01:50 PM   #84
DMETune
 
Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzchen View Post
Mine didn't work as of Monday, but car is still at the dealer. I don't have ZSP, but it read 243 km/hr just like a ZSP is supposed to...
We don't believe that the initial value that you see in the dropdown has been read from your DME. Rather, the dropdown list is filled with pre-programmed selections by BT and therefore unrelated to the DME content. For example, there are selections in the BT list that are not even in my DME.
DMETune is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 04:49 PM   #85
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,628
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMETune View Post
We don't believe that the initial value that you see in the dropdown has been read from your DME. Rather, the dropdown list is filled with pre-programmed selections by BT and therefore unrelated to the DME content. For example, there are selections in the BT list that are not even in my DME.
+1
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 04:50 PM   #86
kpxshorty
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 E90 335i
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Torrance

Posts: 663
iTrader: (7)

So.. Does It Work With Non Zps??
kpxshorty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 04:55 PM   #87
DMETune
 
Drives: E92 335
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 74
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpxshorty View Post
So.. Does It Work With Non Zps??
I've seen no indication that it will work on any vehicle.
DMETune is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-23-2009, 05:05 PM   #88
kpxshorty
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 E90 335i
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Torrance

Posts: 663
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMETune View Post
I've seen no indication that it will work on any vehicle.
WTF? SO WILL IT WORK OR NOT ON NON ZPS.
kpxshorty is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST