N54 MHI Turbo Data - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

DMETune · 04-29-2009, 01:59 PM

Here's some compressor map data for the turbochargers on the x35 N54 vehicles.

From this we can gather that a pair of these turbos spinning at redline can produce ~1150 kg/hr of airflow, which translates into ~42.25 lb/min.

Here's the MHI flow map with efficiency islands.

Malek@MRF · 04-29-2009, 02:09 PM

GREAT fuckin information!!! Been looking for this for a long long time.

High five!

getInline · 04-29-2009, 02:12 PM

Can you post the pictures as attachments instead of imageshack references? Work blocks imageshack. Thx.

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 02:21 PM

It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP

we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon

timtech · 04-29-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMETune

Here's some compressor map data for the turbochargers on the x35 N54 vehicles.

From this we can gather that a pair of these turbos spinning at redline can produce ~1150 kg/hr of airflow, which translates into ~42.25 lb/min.

Thank you so much for posting this. This is great information to have.

ArmyBimmerDude · 04-29-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP

we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon

Thanks for explaining that to us. Great information.

Ilma · 04-29-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

Not that I know anything, but that sounds about right for stock turbos.

I don't think anyone on stocks has dyno'd much above 420 hp except for Terry who hit a peak of 460 hp at 19 psi boost. But that was only for a short burst of 100 rpm.

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilma

Not that I know anything, but that sounds about right for stock turbos.

I don't think anyone on stocks has dyno'd much above 420 hp except for Terry who hit a peak of 460 hp at 19 psi boost. But that was only for a short burst of 100 rpm.

the turbos can push more than the compressor map but you are in no mans land and basicly spinning the guts out of them

if you run them this hard dont be mad if:
-the turbos self destruct
-you melt an exhaust valve
-you melt a piston

I personally feel that the tubine size and restriction as well as the wastegate size and design both hold power levels in check thats why we havent seen many issues with the above ^

Bubbles · 04-29-2009, 02:49 PM

Good info! Thank you! 5 Stars!

scottp999 · 04-29-2009, 02:49 PM

TTurboBullett - thanks for your input. It would be great to have an upgrade option close by for the mid-atlantic states. Just hope that existing tuning options can map for it.

scalbert · 04-29-2009, 03:05 PM

Good to finally see.

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottp999

TTurboBullett - thanks for your input. It would be great to have an upgrade option close by for the mid-atlantic states. Just hope that existing tuning options can map for it.

I can tune em w an attache no problemo, we already have(have had) a fueling option on the shelf now for about 9-10 months

scheherazade · 04-29-2009, 03:15 PM

** STICKY THIS **

-scheherazade

Bubbles · 04-29-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

I can tune em w an attache no problemo, we already have(have had) a fueling option on the shelf now for about 9-10 months

Upgraded fuel system?

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Upgraded fuel system?

in a way yes...look up stratified charge injection

Tobias1980 · 04-29-2009, 03:20 PM

Thanks for the information!

is it possible to make a curve of maximum safe psi boost per RPM from this information?

Bubbles · 04-29-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

in a way yes...look up stratified charge injection

Interesting, I was hoping for an upgraded fuel pump.

smdandb2 · 04-29-2009, 03:23 PM

Hopefully tonight I will make a more recognizable compressor map with the efficiency islands and such. I have all the data I need and have already started plotting it.

I have papers all over my desk with lines drawn on everything, lol.

At best, these things don't seem that efficient.

DMETune · 04-29-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits

- Unless you see something here that I don't, these claims are not derived from the posted data.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP

we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon

- I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread as a clean technical discussion and avoid promoting products.

Thanks in advance

JesusFrEAk · 04-29-2009, 03:34 PM

TTurboBullett so are you saying people can run the stock turbos at 18psi producing 480rwp and be save for what 1 yr, 2 yrs ??? how long???

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMETune

- Unless you see something here that I don't, these claims are not derived from the posted data.

- I'd appreciate it if we could keep this thread as a clean technical discussion and avoid promoting products.

Thanks in advance

according to the posted data the OP said that the turbos were good for 42.25lb airflow 1 lb airflow is good for approx 10hp SO 42.25x10= 422.5hp

peak boost is shown in the middle of the map as 2.7bar (2.7 x 14.6psi = 39 - 14.6(atmospheric pressure) = 24.8 MAX PSI)

max boost at max flow/choke point is 2.2 bar (2.2 x 14.6 = 32 psi -14.6(atmospheric pressure) = 17.52 PSI BOOST at choke point)

once someone translates the map to either CFM or Lb/min and puts some efficiency % to the islands I can get as TECH as you want

Anything missing?

TTurboBullett · 04-29-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusFrEAk

TTurboBullett so are you saying people can run the stock turbos at 18psi producing 480rwp and be save for what 1 yr, 2 yrs ??? how long???

those #'s are only part of the equation you need to know vehicle displacement - volumetric efficiency, boost level and RPM to know exactly where the turbos are beeing run at any point in the compressor map

04-29-2009, 01:59 PM	#1
DMETune Drives: E92 335 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 74 iTrader: (0)	N54 MHI Turbo Data Here's some compressor map data for the turbochargers on the x35 N54 vehicles. From this we can gather that a pair of these turbos spinning at redline can produce ~1150 kg/hr of airflow, which translates into ~42.25 lb/min. Here's the MHI flow map with efficiency islands. Last edited by DMETune; 04-30-2009 at 01:35 PM.
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04-29-2009, 02:09 PM	#2
Malek@MRF Colonel Drives: E92 ZCP Melbourne 6MT Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, California Posts: 2,832 iTrader: (5)	GREAT fuckin information!!! Been looking for this for a long long time. High five! __________________ MRF on Facebook Southern California's largest & most reputable E9x M3 forced induction & suspension facility. *"Performance; Uncompromised."*

04-29-2009, 02:49 PM	#9
Bubbles Green Bastard Drives: ZCP-Powered Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bishop Bend Posts: 3,523 iTrader: (3)	Good info! Thank you! 5 Stars! __________________ Last edited by Bubbles; 04-29-2009 at 03:11 PM.

04-29-2009, 02:49 PM	#10
scottp999 MFP - Twin Turbo I6 Interceptor Drives: 335i - E92 - 6MT & 4runner SR5 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: MD Posts: 4,428 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW 335 [4.50]	TTurboBullett - thanks for your input. It would be great to have an upgrade option close by for the mid-atlantic states. Just hope that existing tuning options can map for it. __________________ Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

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04-29-2009, 02:12 PM	#3
getInline First Lieutenant Drives: 2008 335 Coupe, c32 AMG Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 390 iTrader: (1)	Can you post the pictures as attachments instead of imageshack references? Work blocks imageshack. Thx.

04-29-2009, 02:21 PM	#4
TTurboBullett BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 2012 Abarth 500 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,146 iTrader: (3)	It means that the 335i can push 422.5hp worth of air and 24psi midrange and 18psi(compressor outlet peaks) at peak power while still staying in the compressor map(before choking the turbos) ie anything over 380whp is pushing the turbos beyond factory(mitsu) tested limits The upcoming Helix direct bolt on turbos can push similar pressures but the power output potential is 570HP we'll get some pics up next week when Ralph and Eric return from Minis on the Dragon

04-29-2009, 03:05 PM	#11
scalbert Major General Drives: '08 E90 M3, '13 Volt, '08 Ody Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 5,635 iTrader: (6)	Good to finally see.

04-29-2009, 03:15 PM	#13
scheherazade Major Drives: 09 GTR (& 93' accord!) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: DC metro area Posts: 1,465 iTrader: (8)	STICKY THIS -scheherazade

04-29-2009, 03:20 PM	#16
Tobias1980 Read the manual please, just do it before asking! Drives: E92 335 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 396 iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the information! is it possible to make a curve of maximum safe psi boost per RPM from this information?

04-29-2009, 03:23 PM	#18
smdandb2 this space left intentionally blank Drives: Blue One Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BYU Posts: 293 iTrader: (0)	Hopefully tonight I will make a more recognizable compressor map with the efficiency islands and such. I have all the data I need and have already started plotting it. I have papers all over my desk with lines drawn on everything, lol. At best, these things don't seem that efficient.

04-29-2009, 03:34 PM	#20
JesusFrEAk First Lieutenant Drives: 2008 335i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 395 iTrader: (0)	TTurboBullett so are you saying people can run the stock turbos at 18psi producing 480rwp and be save for what 1 yr, 2 yrs ??? how long???