E90Post
 


E92-lighting
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Another step closer to 335i ( 3 of 4 prooved true)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-13-2005, 09:44 AM   #1
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

Another step closer to 335i ( 3 of 4 prooved true)

You guys will remember the one page BMW document that was sneaked out before the E90 was launched, and which is the basis of the 335i engine predictions

well it said 4 things before the E90 was launched

1) N52 engine ( prooved)
2) USA different engine ( prooved, 325i )
3) Direct Injection petrol engine comming
4)Twin turbo Direct Injection petrol engine comming

Well BMW has prooved no 3 now by revealing their Direct Injection petrol technlogy at Frankfurt

It will be released in Europe as soon as all fuel conforms to the correct specs ( suppose to be next year ) and will then reach other markets as thei fuel conforms ( I know ours here does from 2006 )

So 3 of 4 predictions are prooven correct, bring on the 335i


Picture of petrol direct injection

E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 09:49 AM   #2
CC 330i
Captain
 
CC 330i's Avatar
 
Drives: 330i SG/Blk/Alum
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 722
iTrader: (0)

I like what I see!
CC 330i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 10:24 AM   #3
JamieA
Colonel
 
JamieA's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i SG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to JamieA
Well I gotta say guys one eye is smiling and one eye is crying. Great that BM is keeping pace with technology , bad that my order is already in

Oz should get the engine soon then because Audi and a few others are already selling direct injection petrol motors here that use our (now) widely available 98 RON unleaded fuel.
__________________
'05 E90 325i 6sp Man SG 118,032km on the odo (retired) | '06 E90 325i Step SG 121,021km on the odo (retired)
'08 E90 325i LCI Step SG 130,024km on the odo (retired)
'13 D30 328i M-Sport Step | Estoril Blue | Black/Aluminimum | Pro Nav | Xenon HBA | Lane Change Assist 1,760km on the odo
JamieA is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 10:27 AM   #4
JamieA
Colonel
 
JamieA's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i SG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to JamieA
looked closer at the pic (and isn't BMW engineering a joy to behold!). Notice the face of the piston - looks like they are doing something similar to Audi's FSI concept. Their pistons have a very similar look in their Direct Injection FSI engines.

What do people think/know?
__________________
'05 E90 325i 6sp Man SG 118,032km on the odo (retired) | '06 E90 325i Step SG 121,021km on the odo (retired)
'08 E90 325i LCI Step SG 130,024km on the odo (retired)
'13 D30 328i M-Sport Step | Estoril Blue | Black/Aluminimum | Pro Nav | Xenon HBA | Lane Change Assist 1,760km on the odo
JamieA is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:10 AM   #5
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

The expected date curently in europe is mid next year
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:13 AM   #6
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

A closer look at the piston for you
Attached Images
 
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:14 AM   #7
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

The piston face is very similar to direct injection diesel engine pistons
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:18 AM   #8
JamieA
Colonel
 
JamieA's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i SG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to JamieA
That's a much better pic, thanks.

The piston head looks much more complicated than Audi's - their shape is primarily a groove down the middle to promote tumble for the lean burn mode.

BMW's looks like it probably involves a more complex ignition process centred around that well in the middle. I can't wait to read more details about how this engine works.
__________________
'05 E90 325i 6sp Man SG 118,032km on the odo (retired) | '06 E90 325i Step SG 121,021km on the odo (retired)
'08 E90 325i LCI Step SG 130,024km on the odo (retired)
'13 D30 328i M-Sport Step | Estoril Blue | Black/Aluminimum | Pro Nav | Xenon HBA | Lane Change Assist 1,760km on the odo
JamieA is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:20 AM   #9
MCS
e90 newbie
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern NJ

Posts: 440
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
The toyota IS will have both direct and port fuel injeciton, apparently to utilize either/or in combination to maximize the fuel/air mixture. In the article, I believe it stated that one is better than the other depending on engine speed.

I also read while doing research on Cars that Audi employs this technology, but the quality or octane of US gas keeps it from being utilized to its greatest potential?

Any insights into that?
MCS is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:27 AM   #10
Hornet
First Lieutenant
 
Hornet's Avatar
 
Drives: 420d
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Finland

Posts: 392
iTrader: (0)

I've also heard that FSI technology can't be fully utilized in the US because of the fuel quality, at the moment.

What kind of information did BMW actually reveal about this new technology in Frankfurt?
Hornet is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:33 AM   #11
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet

What kind of information did BMW actually reveal about this new technology in Frankfurt?
Just said its comming and that it will save fuel and emissions

Also released these pics

Dont know if they had a actual engie at the show or not
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 11:37 AM   #12
JamieA
Colonel
 
JamieA's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i SG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to JamieA
Here is an article on Audi's FSI fuel quality would be a problem during the stratified charge cycle in particular.

Direct injection engines tend to run at high compression ratios which means that low quality fuel would produce unwanted detonation and damage tghe engine

In Australia these FSI engines require 98 RON fuel (Super Premium). They get by on normal premium (95 RON) for short trips in an emergency with much reduced performance, and will not accept normal 91 RON fuel.

I don't know what RON fuel is in the US. (for those who don't know, the RON is a purity rating - here is
an article on RON for the interested)
__________________
'05 E90 325i 6sp Man SG 118,032km on the odo (retired) | '06 E90 325i Step SG 121,021km on the odo (retired)
'08 E90 325i LCI Step SG 130,024km on the odo (retired)
'13 D30 328i M-Sport Step | Estoril Blue | Black/Aluminimum | Pro Nav | Xenon HBA | Lane Change Assist 1,760km on the odo
JamieA is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-13-2005, 04:24 PM   #13
mikek
New Member
 
Drives: Acura RSX S
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

US 91 Octane (PON) = EU 95 RON
mikek is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2005, 05:57 PM   #14
skimo
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 335 vert Dinan II
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Austin Texas !!

Posts: 531
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via MSN to skimo
I don't know too much about engines (compared to you guys..) but isn't direct fuel injection ancient technology? What am I missing? (feel free to be as technical as you want in your explanation...I am an electrical engineer )

SKimo
skimo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2005, 06:20 PM   #15
ward
Major General
 
Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

Posts: 6,162
iTrader: (0)

direct injection is when fuel is put directly into the combustion chamber, rather than injecting in the intake tract, or on the other side of the intake valve from the combustion chamber.

I guess you get better atomization compared to older types of injection
ward is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2005, 07:51 PM   #16
Ed_330i
Lieutenant
 
Ed_330i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North America

Posts: 515
iTrader: (0)

no, when you put the fuel in the intake, the fuel gets a chance to chump up.

like when you see water on your window, and it falls, as soon as it touches another drop they become one bigger drop.
when you burn fuel you dont want that, cause it makes the burn inefficent.

with Direct injection the nozzale is so small, that the fuel doesnt get a chance to join up, so you can burn cleaner and more efficentally. not to mention you get better performance.
Ed_330i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2005, 11:09 AM   #17
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
 
fredtoo's Avatar
 
Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

Posts: 340
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Designing an engine around specific fuel quality standards seem to be a dangerous thing to do.
What happens if the standards change?
fredtoo is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2005, 11:22 AM   #18
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtoo
Designing an engine around specific fuel quality standards seem to be a dangerous thing to do.
What happens if the standards change?
The big thing here is sulphur content, and that is being taken care of by law.

Most manufacturers will bring out their versions in the next few years


There have been a few lean cycle direct injection engines vailalble in Japan due to their quality fuel
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-17-2005, 11:27 AM   #19
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimo
I don't know too much about engines (compared to you guys..) but isn't direct fuel injection ancient technology? What am I missing? (feel free to be as technical as you want in your explanation...I am an electrical engineer )

SKimo
Direct Injection engines have mostly been seen on Diesels

A few petrol versions have been seen ouside Japan, like the 760i, but they dont run in the lean cycle

Japan hase very high octane fuel available and it has very low sulphur, so they have had a few lean cycle engines available

Low sulphur is needed because the engines need a high temp catalytic converter when the engine runs in lean cycle and sulphur kills those cats


With the correct cat and fuel the new engines can run VERY lean without detonation, thus saving a lot of fuel, and gaining a bit of power
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2005, 04:38 AM   #20
Armen52
Captain
 
Armen52's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 658
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
Wow that is an awesome close-up pic of a direct-injection engine. I had yet to see a photo like that although I had read all about it and seen the pretty little drawings.

Anybody have a similar close-up of the current E90 engine's valve/cylinder/piston arrangment for comparison? E90Fleet?
__________________
E90 330i delivered 6/29/2005, ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/Step, Arctic/Gray/Walnut
Armen52 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2005, 10:05 AM   #21
JamieA
Colonel
 
JamieA's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i SG
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 2,147
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via MSN to JamieA
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtoo
Designing an engine around specific fuel quality standards seem to be a dangerous thing to do.
What happens if the standards change?
Most countries have legislation in place in relation to sulphur content. Here in Oz this is underway, and 98RON is freely available and perfectly suitable fir direct petrol injection engines.

I think auto manufacturers have close relationships with legislators in this regard. It is in the governments' best interests because of things like commitments to reduce greenhouse emissions - Direct Injection is more efficient and clean, so legislating for fuel standards which are friendly is a good thing. Also the sulphurous chemicals emitted from the exhaust of cars running high sulphur content fuels contributes to acid rain - so I would say that all in all the future looks bright for direct petrol injection.
__________________
'05 E90 325i 6sp Man SG 118,032km on the odo (retired) | '06 E90 325i Step SG 121,021km on the odo (retired)
'08 E90 325i LCI Step SG 130,024km on the odo (retired)
'13 D30 328i M-Sport Step | Estoril Blue | Black/Aluminimum | Pro Nav | Xenon HBA | Lane Change Assist 1,760km on the odo
JamieA is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-18-2005, 11:28 AM   #22
E90Fleet
Major General
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

Posts: 8,047
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armen52

Anybody have a similar close-up of the current E90 engine's valve/cylinder/piston arrangment for comparison? E90Fleet?
Like This ?
Attached Images
 
E90Fleet is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST