BSW Stage I Audio Upgrade Review? - Page 7 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

JoeyFiasco · 05-21-2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotyH

On the E90, it's possible to install a much deeper speaker than stock. On the E92, you can't, the curvature of the door panel places the speakers magnet much closer to the window mechanism.

The Morel Hybrid Ovations that I tried to install in my E92 were only 2" deep and there's no way in hell I could make them work without major door panel/grille modifications.

really? that's not good news for me..

ScotyH · 05-21-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

No, they don't...

E90 Individual Audio Mid (front doors): P/N 65137838905
E92 Individual Audio Mid (front doors and rear side panels): P/N 65137838905

The mid speakers can be the exact same size between the Sedan and the Coupe if BSW really wanted them to be...

OK what I'm saying is;

1. You're right that the stock sedan & coupe mid are the same. Both are VERY shallow.

2. The stock mid in the sedan is replaceable with a deeper speaker. The mid in the coupe is not. There just isn't any extra depth available in a coupe door cavity.

3. From what I see on the BSW mid, it would need to be roughly 3/4" more shallow to fit in a coupe due to depth to window mechanism restrictions.
Unless you don't want your windows to roll down all the way

Technic · 05-21-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotyH

OK what I'm saying is;

1. You're right that the stock sedan & coupe mid are the same. Both are VERY shallow.

2. The stock mid in the sedan is replaceable with a deeper speaker. The mid in the coupe is not. There just isn't any extra depth available in a coupe door cavity.

3. From what I see on the BSW mid, it would need to be roughly 3/4" more shallow to fit in a coupe due to depth to window mechanism restrictions.
Unless you don't want your windows to roll down all the way

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, I think that there was no need to have two different "Stage 1" kits -one for the Sedan and one for the Coupe/Convertible"- as one mid speaker design would have fit and sound better as well in all models.

I think that BSW went for the ready-available route for the Sedan and it found out too late that the sucker doesn't fit as well in the other two models.

JoeyFiasco · 05-21-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, I think that there was no need to have two different "Stage 1" kits -one for the Sedan and one for the Coupe/Convertible"- as one mid speaker design would have fit and sound better as well in all models.

I think that BSW went for the ready-available route for the Sedan and it found out too late that the sucker doesn't fit as well in the other two models.

i thought they custom made their speakers

Dracon · 05-21-2009, 09:33 AM

Their website makes it seem like they are making their own custom speakers.... So I was under this impression as well.

Joey, which part of P'boro you live in? I used to live and work in the Ortons while I was stationed by my company out there.

ScotyH · 05-21-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, I think that there was no need to have two different "Stage 1" kits -one for the Sedan and one for the Coupe/Convertible"- as one mid speaker design would have fit and sound better as well in all models.

I think that BSW went for the ready-available route for the Sedan and it found out too late that the sucker doesn't fit as well in the other two models.

Gotcha. Sorry I'm a little dense sometimes....

Technic · 05-21-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

i thought they custom made their speakers

I don't know about that... why custom make a mid design that cannot be used in all the models so the development costs could be reduced and thus increase the profit and the sales?

BMW did exactly that, so what's the problem?

It cannot be said that it is because the Coupe and Convertible require different drivers to sound the same as the Sedan, as you can get the same set of Focal 100KP components that fit all the models and still sound great in all of them.

Technic · 05-21-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotyH

Gotcha. Sorry I'm a little dense sometimes....

I'm just trying to understand that "specific depth" comment from BSW a while back. That's like building a house that only you can live in but not your whole family, it doesn't make any sense to me...

JoeyFiasco · 05-21-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

I don't know about that... why custom make a mid design that cannot be used in all the models so the development costs could be reduced and thus increase the profit and the sales?

BMW did exactly that, so what's the problem?

It cannot be said that it is because the Coupe and Convertible require different drivers to sound the same as the Sedan, as you can get the same set of Focal 100KP components that fit all the models and still sound great in all of them.

yeah i totally agree. i was under the impression that they made their own drivers and therefore thought they would make them so they are compatible with all e9X if not all current BMW's. this is why i didn't understand why there was such a long "development" stage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dracon

Their website makes it seem like they are making their own custom speakers.... So I was under this impression as well.

Joey, which part of P'boro you live in? I used to live and work in the Ortons while I was stationed by my company out there.

I used to live in Orton Longueville once upon a time, right by British Sugar. I live in the Hamptons now, behind serpentine green.

FrankThomas · 05-22-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Yes, I understand what you are saying. However, I think that there was no need to have two different "Stage 1" kits -one for the Sedan and one for the Coupe/Convertible"- as one mid speaker design would have fit and sound better as well in all models.

I think that BSW went for the ready-available route for the Sedan and it found out too late that the sucker doesn't fit as well in the other two models.

So do you think if we ordered a Stage 1 out now for the sedan, every other speaker would fit except the mids in the doors? If thats the case, i would consider doing that and then replace those two mids later on if they ever get released.

Halston@bsw · 11-02-2009, 08:28 PM

First I want to apologize. I totally forgot about the forum and a customer linked me here to answer some questions so I do apoloize for the lack of BSW replies! I am human and made a mistake! Will stay on top of this!

Let's get to cracking on answering some of your questions!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

The P/N of both the Individual Audio 4" mids in the front doors are the same regardless of the 3 Series body (Coupe, Sedan, Convertible).

So, what is this "specific" mounting depth speakers for just the Coupe and Convertible? As long as the 4" mids are less than 50mm in depth they will fit...

The Sedan and Coupe have a different fitment. If you simply put the 4" drivers from the sedan into the coupe it will strike the side glass. While testing we even had it scratch some tint. This is not acceptable obviously.

Now you consider just simply taking off some mounting depth or changing the mounting style/adapter/etc and it changed the acoustics of the speakers so we had to change it. Think of a subwoofer and you just sectioned out 1in of the basket. It would change all the parameters of the speaker and it would not be right.

This is where we were at. We will not release our drivers that are not up to BSW quality in terms of build quality and sound quality. The BSW owners audition, play with, tune, rebuild, redesign etc all of our speakers until they are correct. Sedan came first and the assumption was just bolt them into the coupe and bam we have another product. That did not prove to be the case so we fixed it. Multiple times.

This last week we test fit and auditioned the E92 coupe Stage 1. Is it late? Yes it is. Is it awesome? Yes it is! The wait is worth it, you will want to give it a listen and really hear the difference!

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuelpolaco

Even a kid will know the basics about a speaker. I want to know the RMS watts of this speakers. For $600 I could buy great speakers like Focal, Hertz or Diamond Audio which fit at the front doors and sound great. The problem about the non-logic speakers is the lack of an equalizer and a good amplifier.

Unfortunately, these are specifications that we do not release at this time. Why
not? There are several reasons:
1. We have made a very large investment in terms of time and money to
establish the optimum characteristics for the components we use in our speaker
upgrades. To protect that investment and prevent "copycat" products, we keep
the associated information proprietary.
2. Because our speaker upgrades are optimized to operate on the factory
amplifier (or in some cases, an amplifier we are designing to replace the stock
amplifier), the specifications are not required by end users since we've already
done all the hard work of optimizing the components to work perfectly together
and there is only one operating environment in which our products will be used.
3. Specifications are not meaningful for comparison between our products and
other products which may be used in the same application, primarily because, in
general, specifications in the car audio world are more or less fabricated from
thin air. Repeated testing has shown time and time again that the performance
and behavior of components we test does NOT bear a strong relationship to
what we'd expect given the specifications of a product.
However, all that said, perhaps you can let me know why you'd like the
specifications, at which point I might be able to answer your question or provide
the needed information without the specs.

With that said the Logic7 amp puts out some decent power and we will have our Stage 2 plug and play amp which will be in the 65-75W RMS so our drivers can handle aftermarket power if they are powered and processed correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

I've seen people constantly ask for those details (myself included) what gives???

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Speakers don't have RMS watts. If these speakers are intended to be run off of the OEM BMW amp, all they have to do is handle that power. Any additional power handling is irrelevant. If the speaker does have more power handling, it has ZERO to do with sound quality - doesn't make it sound better.

Manual, you may want to learn more about how to evaluate speakers.

There are areas, like off-axis response, resonant frequency and "Q" characteristics, and distortion components, which can make clear differences in how a speaker sounds.

BSW doesn't usually share these details either, but they COULD...

We could but just like other aftermarket tuners we don't just give out everything right out of the gate. Somethings we keep as company secrets.

Many a car audio spec is simply pulled out of the air and most after doing some research figure this out. Just look @ 4-Ohms when bridged so the specs are plan and simple... wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollyn2night

What the hell ever happened to BSW's audio upgrade. Everytime they said a few weeks and its been sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long. WTF

See above

Quote:

Originally Posted by renpar61

yeah! WTF
my lease will be over before the system is available...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shocka1212

lol me 2, or just so close to the end of it that it wouldnt be worth it.

Sorry we have not met with everyones time frame but we are working on it. Once we secure actual production driver/stage 1 dates we are going to do a pre-order sale for the forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

I do have an E90 as well.

Regardless of the E9x chassis (Sedan, Coupe, Convertible) all share the exact same 4" mid depths, as their respective (as in front door mids in the Sedan to front door mids in the Coupe and so on) 4" mids P/N are exactly the same.

That's what I don't understand; if the mids depths are the same across the models and the only thing different is the mounting points then what is this "specific mounting depth"?

BMW uses the same speaker in a LOT of the cars at this point. The drivers have counter sunk, flush mount and other mounting designs depending on the vehicle and placement in the vehicle. This has to be considered and when you start playing with the mounts and mounting depths the speakers had to be redone to give a proper upgrade. This is explained above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuelpolaco

I will like to know the rms of the speakers if I want to use them with a aftermarket amp. Like I say before, I'm not a speaker expert, but IMO knowing the rms and the frequency response it enough information for me. The other stuff, I leave it to the experts

Our Stage 1 Audio Upgrade is not compatible with aftermarket amplifiers. That's
because we've designed it from the ground up to work with the factory amplifier,
power output, wiring, and built-in crossovers found in your vehicle. By
eliminating the factory amplifier, you'll also eliminate the factory crossovers and
change the frequencies and amount of power each speaker receives, meaning
they won't be operating in their ideal range and are likely to be damaged, or at
minimum sound pretty terrible. While it is theoretically possible to install an
aftermarket amplifier and crossover configuration that would be compatible with
our Stage 1, it is not something we would be able to provide information on or
support in any way. It would also void our 100% satisfaction guarantee and the
product warranty.

With that said, and as I said above, we are working on a plug and play amp. When will it definitely be done? I do not have an ETA right now but we have to make sure it is 100% correct on something like this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

That's not my point, my point is with BSW trying to separate a Coupe from the Sedan Stage 1 application when the OEM speakers are the same.

They can setup a Coupe Stage 1 with their Sedan drivers with minor changes.

What one says is a 'minor' change may alter how the speaker sounds and performs. If it does and it is not an acceptable change we have to make and change and thus the E92 is a different product. Would we like every single E9x speaker to use the same exact speaker so we can just order 1000s of the 4" and thousands of the tweeter? You bet we do! It simply did not work out like that and that is why we do the research for you and release a product that is 100% complete and sounds great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyFiasco

i thought they custom made their speakers

We do

See above!

Keep the questions coming!

tlow98 · 09-02-2011, 11:00 AM

Wow, I can't believe how much complaining some of you guys do. Have you ever asked BMW for their response curves on the Logic 7 when you checked the box for what, triple the cost of this BSW stuff?

I've owned BMWs, saabs and some japanese vehicles and I'll tell you when looking for a PnP solution that actually sounds decent for a reasonable (i know big, subjective word here) cost you really can't expect or find much more.

If the E90 stuff is on par with the kit I had in my E36 M3 I'll be happy.

Bitching about things online is such a cop-out. If you have a question, pick up the phone and call. They'll answer and then you won't have to come on here spewing the stuff you thought up in your head. Honestly, it's painful to look at some of this stuff.

This thread is old, I know, but it needs to be mentioned. I hope some of you have changed your attitudes when you went from your early to mid 30's since this was posted.

IllLojik · 09-21-2011, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlow98

Wow, I can't believe how much complaining some of you guys do. Have you ever asked BMW for their response curves on the Logic 7 when you checked the box for what, triple the cost of this BSW stuff?

I've owned BMWs, saabs and some japanese vehicles and I'll tell you when looking for a PnP solution that actually sounds decent for a reasonable (i know big, subjective word here) cost you really can't expect or find much more.

If the E90 stuff is on par with the kit I had in my E36 M3 I'll be happy.

Bitching about things online is such a cop-out. If you have a question, pick up the phone and call. They'll answer and then you won't have to come on here spewing the stuff you thought up in your head. Honestly, it's painful to look at some of this stuff.

This thread is old, I know, but it needs to be mentioned. I hope some of you have changed your attitudes when you went from your early to mid 30's since this was posted.

Plus effin 1. I love how people who've never heard them throw judgment so quickly based on.... nothing.

taibanl · 01-29-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halston@bsw

No volume lost. In the end you can listen at a higher level with less distortion

So 'more' volume is gained, more usable volume.

At a given output are the speakers at least equally or more efficient?

jerrys · 02-03-2012, 10:32 PM

I may be picking up my car on weekends , plus the Stage one (and car sub)will be place in shortly thereafter. Perhaps on MLK day

nichojo · 02-04-2012, 01:12 PM

Halston,

Any love for those of us with BASE audio systems (the MY2010/Early 2011)?

taibanl · 02-04-2012, 01:16 PM

The bsw stage i is a speaker upgrade. Nothing more. If you want to upgrade the base system you have more work to do. One of The cheapest would be the oem alpine upgrade

VP Electricity · 02-04-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Our Stage 1 Audio Upgrade is not compatible with aftermarket amplifiers.

Now THAT is some useful information!

VP Electricity · 02-04-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nichojo

Halston,

Any love for those of us with BASE audio systems (the MY2010/Early 2011)?

Don't worry, someone loves you...

nichojo · 02-04-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Don't worry, someone loves you...

I know! I'm SO tempted. I have this tax refund burning a hole in my pocket and I just can't make up my mind.

taibanl · 02-04-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nichojo

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Don't worry, someone loves you...

I know! I'm SO tempted. I have this tax refund burning a hole in my pocket and I just can't make up my mind.

You wont regret it

kmarei · 02-04-2012, 09:29 PM

i had them for about 2 years hooked up to an aftermarket amp with zero issues
they were high passed at 80hz at 24b
just don't give them 100 watts and expect them to survive
my amp was putting out 50w rms and they were great

02-03-2012, 10:32 PM	#147
jerrys New Member Drives: bmw se Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: us Posts: 15 iTrader: (0)	I may be picking up my car on weekends , plus the Stage one (and car sub)will be place in shortly thereafter. Perhaps on MLK day __________________ car lcd dvd @hotmail.com

02-04-2012, 01:16 PM	#149
taibanl Colonel Drives: 2011 335d Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Syracuse Posts: 2,654 iTrader: (4) Garage List 2011 335d [0.00]	The bsw stage i is a speaker upgrade. Nothing more. If you want to upgrade the base system you have more work to do. One of The cheapest would be the oem alpine upgrade __________________ WTB: 335is Black Chrome Tips -PM Me FS:Sub Amp - works w/ Technic harness! MRD-M300 FREE!!: Euro-Amber LCI LED tails (for repair) DON'T BUY FROM RAF555!!!! Ask me why

02-04-2012, 09:29 PM	#154
kmarei Major General Drives: 1988 M3 Evo II Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Reston, VA Posts: 6,035 iTrader: (32)	i had them for about 2 years hooked up to an aftermarket amp with zero issues they were high passed at 80hz at 24b just don't give them 100 watts and expect them to survive my amp was putting out 50w rms and they were great __________________ "There are two opinions in this world. Mine and the wrong one." -- Jeremy Clarkson

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05-21-2009, 09:33 AM	#137
Dracon First Lieutenant Drives: 2006 330i E90 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 337 iTrader: (0)	Their website makes it seem like they are making their own custom speakers.... So I was under this impression as well. Joey, which part of P'boro you live in? I used to live and work in the Ortons while I was stationed by my company out there.

09-02-2011, 11:00 AM	#144
tlow98 Private First Class Drives: E36 M3 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: United States Posts: 104 iTrader: (1)	Wow, I can't believe how much complaining some of you guys do. Have you ever asked BMW for their response curves on the Logic 7 when you checked the box for what, triple the cost of this BSW stuff? I've owned BMWs, saabs and some japanese vehicles and I'll tell you when looking for a PnP solution that actually sounds decent for a reasonable (i know big, subjective word here) cost you really can't expect or find much more. If the E90 stuff is on par with the kit I had in my E36 M3 I'll be happy. Bitching about things online is such a cop-out. If you have a question, pick up the phone and call. They'll answer and then you won't have to come on here spewing the stuff you thought up in your head. Honestly, it's painful to look at some of this stuff. This thread is old, I know, but it needs to be mentioned. I hope some of you have changed your attitudes when you went from your early to mid 30's since this was posted.

02-04-2012, 01:12 PM	#148
nichojo Lieutenant Drives: 2011 328i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 403 iTrader: (1)	Halston, Any love for those of us with BASE audio systems (the MY2010/Early 2011)?