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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 330i vs Audi A4 3.2 quattro vs Lexus Is350



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      09-20-2005, 09:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davinet78
the audi rs4 is the one we should look out for but it shouldnt be a big problem for the new m3
Yea..but the RS4 will be in the $70000-$80000 range
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      09-20-2005, 09:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom
I'd bet >90% of the E90's sold in the US will be with A/T's. That basically debunks the I350 only comes in auto arguement. The IS350 will give u unmatched reliablity with a little less of the "BMW Experience". It's a matter of personal preference actually. IMO Lexus has BMW by the b a l l s in electronics, so if you're into NAV/IDrive then Lexus maybe a better fit due to reliablity. If you're not into that stuff, then BMW might be more your flavor.
and 90% of drivers don't care about the better handling either,

the remaining 10% care enough to waste time on the internet yapping about cars, and people on here ARE enthusiasts who care about manual tranny's and driving dynamics.

Lexus doesn't have the name of a BMW, if you're going just for "bling" factor, which of the 2 following phrases sounds cooler

I drive a Lexus

I drive a BMW

that's why even though BMW my be behind on value, and reliability people still line up to buy 3 series while the asians trail far far behind

BMW gets the driving enthusiasts, and the wannabes trying to show off as customers
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      09-20-2005, 10:02 AM   #25
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Who knows what marketing gigs are involved here? I think part of the corporate philosophy is to provide a standard bearer, a model that makes all the owners of the lowly versions feel like they have a potential monster. Imagine how much more timid G35 owners would be about picking fights with E90s if they thought it could be a 335i. And the currency conversions are whacko -- I don't know what hedging the auto companies are up to, but we get most cars in the USA at close to a 1:1 $ to Euro ratio. It would sure be worth it to come to the USA, buy your 330i for $35k (28k Euros) and take it back to Germany! So I would wait and see what price Audi puts on the RS4 (and BMW on the M3). The figures that convert from Euro pricing are not likely to be the USA pricing.
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      09-20-2005, 10:09 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood
Well , here in Europe it is, so you overthere will get it too I think.
no, we always get screwed. it is available in a manual everywhere else in the world and it is not going to get a manual here. like i said, maybe the salesman was referring to the dsg tranny.
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      09-20-2005, 10:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet
Don't want so start a flame-war but I can't believe how anyone would rate some japan-made trash above Audi/BMW/MB.

I guess it shows how much that person actually knows about CARs.
Wow, I'll be ashamed to buy a BMW because of stuck up people like you.
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      09-20-2005, 10:20 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyoneway
Wow, I'll be ashamed to buy a BMW because of stuck up people like you.
Yeah, that is very childish and closed-minded.
It's like everyone thinks that hyundais are crap because they aren't german or japanese, but they've been producing some decent cars lately and have unbeatable warranties. I'm not saying I'd buy one, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
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      09-20-2005, 10:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
Yeah, that is very childish and closed-minded.
It's like everyone thinks that hyundais are crap because they aren't german or japanese, but they've been producing some decent cars lately and have unbeatable warranties. I'm not saying I'd buy one, but you have to give credit where credit is due.
Isn't Hyundai owned by Daimler Chrysler now that they own Mitsubiti who own Hyundai? Perhaps we will see Hyundais with that ubiqutous 3.2L engine!
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      09-20-2005, 12:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyoneway
Wow, I'll be ashamed to buy a BMW because of stuck up people like you.
Sorry, I was too harsh.
There are japanese cars that are great for the money, in Europe the Corolla is one of the best selling cars. However, when prices start from 40 000 (E90, A4, ...), it's not the same if you buy a Honda or a BMW, IMO.

Audi/BMW/MB are the most valued car brands in Finland (generally the situation is the same everywhere in Europe). The best valued japanese brand Lexus isn't anywhere near the top of the list. I can only guess why, but they never seem to get good reviews in the tests.

The japanese/korean design is another point, IMO. Not that they are bad looking, but usually they change the design every 2-3 years. Where's the heritage?
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      09-20-2005, 12:06 PM   #31
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They need to redesign that often to keep up with the competition
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      09-20-2005, 01:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAdi
G35 is the best exterior in ur opinion!!!and the interior TL,,no odffense but u must be asian ,,loving this crap,i belive so that E90 is quite expensive,,but its the best and why u own one if u think TL and G35 is better!!!! man u have an issues see doctor!
hmm, racist much? i am not asian, and i like the G35 very much. best value on the market if you ask me. do you have to be German to like the BMW?



[quote=Nikki]here's my rendition: (by the way we should be comparing the G35 Sedan, which is slow and ugly, so that is what I am basing this on)

QUOTE]

well, everyone is entitled to my opinion, but....

the G35 isnt slow. it doesnt handle as well as the bimmer, but i doubt you will find many who will agree that the G35 is slower then the 330i.
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      09-20-2005, 02:05 PM   #33
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wow no comment here
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      09-20-2005, 02:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minarets
the G35 isnt slow. it doesnt handle as well as the bimmer, but i doubt you will find many who will agree that the G35 is slower then the 330i.

It is slower. I listed these stats in my original post (0-60):

IS350(5.6s) > TL(5.9s)> 330i(6.1s) >G35 (6.2s)> A4 (6.5s)

It technically isn't "slow", I was just being pissy because I hate how they gave the coupe more power than the sedan.


edit: nevermind, according to msn autos, they bumped up the power for the sedan in 2005. I thought they only increased the coupe's power. Good for Infiniti.

The 6.2s 0-60 is in reference to a 2004 G35 sedan.

However!--The 2005 does 0-60 in 6.1s which is not even a difference considering the power they added ??

I'm confused...they bumped the power from 260 to 298 and all they got was 0.1s? One of those numbers must be incorrect.
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      09-20-2005, 02:48 PM   #35
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A car's 0-60 time can vary depending on road conditions, altitude, temperature, and especially, the driver. Even among car magazines with semi-pro drivers, I've seen ranges in the 0-60 times on the e90 from mid 5s to mid 6 seonds.

Best comparison is done back to back which is what most magazines try to do and report on.

Car and driver tested on a really hot day, so the performance is lower (less air to jam into the engine).

Back to topic - e90 is a great looking car, but I also like the look and feel of the Infiniti. They've come a long way from 5 years ago. I was very close to buying an M45 Sport instead of the e90. What won me over to the 3 was - sportier, more fun in the twisties, and the 6sp manual.
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      09-20-2005, 02:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
It is slower. I listed these stats in my original post (0-60):

IS350(5.6s) > TL(5.9s)> 330i(6.1s) >G35 (6.2s)> A4 (6.5s)

It technically isn't "slow", I was just being pissy because I hate how they gave the coupe more power than the sedan.


edit: nevermind, according to msn autos, they bumped up the power for the sedan in 2005. I thought they only increased the coupe's power. Good for Infiniti.

The 6.2s 0-60 is in reference to a 2004 G35 sedan.

However!--The 2005 does 0-60 in 6.1s which is not even a difference considering the power they added ??

I'm confused...they bumped the power from 260 to 298 and all they got was 0.1s? One of those numbers must be incorrect.
it also depends on whose 0-60 time you arte using....Lexus goes anywhere from 5.1 -6.1 so far that i have seen
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      09-20-2005, 02:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS
A car's 0-60 time can vary depending on road conditions, altitude, temperature, and especially, the driver. Even among car magazines with semi-pro drivers, I've seen ranges in the 0-60 times on the e90 from mid 5s to mid 6 seonds.

Best comparison is done back to back which is what most magazines try to do and report on.

Car and driver tested on a really hot day, so the performance is lower (less air to jam into the engine).

Back to topic - e90 is a great looking car, but I also like the look and feel of the Infiniti. They've come a long way from 5 years ago. I was very close to buying an M45 Sport instead of the e90. What won me over to the 3 was - sportier, more fun in the twisties, and the 6sp manual.
oh man....if i only had the $$...with all things being equal, a M45 woul have my name written all over it. but that is around $58,000 fully loaded
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      09-20-2005, 03:04 PM   #38
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Comparo

All cars are very nice.

I have driven the Audi (currently). The car's quattro is exellent in winter, but the handling dynamics are poor (60% weight in front). The car handles like a front-wheel drive. This is the main reason I am switching the BMW. The Audi engines are less refined than the BMW 6 (and this goes for the FSIs as well-the sound is rougher and so is the idle). The 3.2 Audi 6 has in fact a narrower (slightly but still...) torque curve than the E90.

I have not driven the IS 350, but a good review was done by Autoweek or Edmunds, I forget now; their conclusion was that the execution was good, but at the end of the day the car felt too digital-the review ended with "now where are the keys to the BMW".

The G35 is imo suffering from a poor interior, both ergonomically and design-wise. The looks of the coupe are OK, but, again, imo the sedan is just plain weird. Performance wise Infiniti/Nissan's electronics are not the greatest in the world-the DSC kicks in too early and does so bu cutting throtle first (not a good idea in a turn or slippery surface) and in jerky fashion (kind of all or nothing).

The TL is very well executed but suffers from the typical Acura/Honda proble: front wheel torque + screaming high rev to get the most of the engine. However, the TL handles surprisingly well for a front-wheeler.

I actually think that the best bang for buck is the TL.

FYI in Canada the acceleration times are 0-100 km/H and both the TL and G35 rank after the 330.
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      09-20-2005, 03:06 PM   #39
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OK right, I forgot that I had that C&D article I despise so much. Regardless, they got 5.9 for the G35 and 6.0 for the 330i. How the hell can Infiniti produce a car that is only slightly faster than the BMW which has ~50 less hp?

C&D Test Stats

Infiniti G35 Sedan
Curb Weight: 3520lbs
HP: 298 @6400
TQ: 260@4800
0-60: 5.9s
1/4 mile: 14.6 @ 98mph


BMW 330i
Curb Weight: 3460lbs
HP: 255 @ 6600
TQ: 220 @ 2750
0-60: 6.0s
1/4 mile: 14.8 @ 97mph
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      09-20-2005, 03:15 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki
OK right, I forgot that I had that C&D article I despise so much. Regardless, they got 5.9 for the G35 and 6.0 for the 330i. How the hell can Infiniti produce a car that is only slightly faster than the BMW which has ~50 less hp?

C&D Test Stats

Infiniti G35 Sedan
Curb Weight: 3520lbs
HP: 298 @6400
TQ: 260@4800
0-60: 5.9s
1/4 mile: 14.6 @ 98mph


BMW 330i
Curb Weight: 3460lbs
HP: 255 @ 6600
TQ: 220 @ 2750
0-60: 6.0s
1/4 mile: 14.8 @ 97mph
I have no hard data to prove this, but it seems that BMW's get more hp to the rear wheels than it's competitors. It's all about RwHP !!!!

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      09-20-2005, 03:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davinet78
the audi rs4 is the one we should look out for but it shouldnt be a big problem for the new m3
Not really check this out

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...783738,00.html
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      09-20-2005, 03:33 PM   #42
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Gearing, rear weight bias when accelerating, and tire size/type are big factors. Also RwHP from previous post. BMW engine oil pump is electrical instead of belt driven so it saps less direct power from the engine than the Nissan engine. Torque and HP curve.

That's also why a Porsche will keep up with a Corvette even with a power deficit.
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      09-20-2005, 04:52 PM   #43
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Hey,

BMW is the ultimate driving machine in the sports sedan category period. It is the standard bearer.

Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, want to be like BMW...not vice versa.

BMW did not design the 330i to debunk the Lexus IS 350 or the Acura TL.

However, I do think that many engineers from Lexus and Acura lost sleep think of ways to dethrone BMW.

Long live the King of the sports sedan--BMW.
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      09-20-2005, 04:55 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 5
Hey,

BMW is the ultimate driving machine in the sports sedan category period. It is the standard bearer.

Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, want to be like BMW...not vice versa.

BMW did not design the 330i to debunk the Lexus IS 350 or the Acura TL.

However, I do think that many engineers from Lexus and Acura lost sleep think of ways to dethrone BMW.

Long live the King of the sports sedan--BMW.
You must be new to BMW..*joking*
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