[ksfrogman]

Just installed today. Will dyno when time permits.

I cropped and resized the photos to the same dimensions.

Photo 1: OEM top (76mm I.D.), Dinan bottom (79mm I.D.).

Photo 2: Dinan top (40% opacity), OEM bottom (100% opacity)

[Minipuck V 2.0]

michael,

is this something i can do on a 325i ?

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by Minipuck V 2.0

michael,

is this something i can do on a 325i ?

Yes, but you might wait until I dyno to see if this is even worth the expense. Car sounds and feels the same. I'm relieved that it still runs smoothly and is not guzzling the gas.

[Minipuck V 2.0]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

Yes, but you might wait until I dyno to see if this is even worth the expense. Car sounds and feels the same. I'm relieved that it still runs smoothly and is not guzzling the gas.

muah ahhahahaha thanks michael. i am wondering does it sound the same because your gruppe m intake is in there.

can't wait to see the dyno

[tiga901]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

Yes, but you might wait until I dyno to see if this is even worth the expense. Car sounds and feels the same. I'm relieved that it still runs smoothly and is not guzzling the gas.

OK...keep us posted!!! Thanks in advance for your contribution.

[Chesmu]

what does the opacity mean?

edit: and I know the definition of the word...I mean in this context.

[Hunter399]

Dyno Dyno Dyno!!!!!

[GregL]

Originally Posted by hunter399

Dyno Dyno Dyno!!!!!

Yes, to put it more eloquently, I too very much look forward to the results of a dyno test.

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by Chesmu

what does the opacity mean?

edit: and I know the definition of the word...I mean in this context.

I was referring to the image opacity (I did this using Photoshop). Since I was superimposing one image on top of another, I made one less opaque (like a ghost), so that you could see the other image underneath.

[Chesmu]

3mm lets that much more in? I'll repeat Hunter's sentiments... if not his verbal eloquence.

[ward]

I bet you won't see much of a gain until the software is optimized for the throttle body/intake/exhaust you've got

[Chesmu]

but froggy has 3 (?) different companies...

gruppe M intake, Dinan throttle body, and stock(?) exhaust.

How's software gonna take all of that into account?

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by ward

I bet you won't see much of a gain until the software is optimized for the throttle body/intake/exhaust you've got

I was talking to Mike at Technik, and to some members who fiddled a bit with different ECU reflashes. Our cars do have some ability to adapt to our driving habits and hardware, and in no small part, the air/fuel mixture. None of the companies are placing any high priority (if any) on ECU upgrades for the outgoing E90 N52 models.

Originally Posted by Chesmu

3mm lets that much more in? I'll repeat Hunter's sentiments... if not his verbal eloquence.

Here's an interesting aside...

The surface area of the OEM 76mm bore is pi*r^2 = 4536.5 mm^2
For the aftermarket 79mm bore, the surface area = 4901.7 mm^2

Now imagine a square hole almost 2cm x 2cm large. That's the additional surface area that will theoretically allow more air in.

I'm not sure this would translate into better engine breathing, or diminished air speed velocity. One should not expect dramatic improvements on a normally aspirated engine with intake and exhaust mods, but it's my hope that the sum of each improvement would make some difference.

I'll dyno test next week.

[ward]

Originally Posted by Chesmu

but froggy has 3 (?) different companies...

gruppe M intake, Dinan throttle body, and stock(?) exhaust.

How's software gonna take all of that into account?

I'm sure intakes and exhaust are all pretty close, plus the frog's right about the computer adapting itself a bit

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by ward

I'm sure intakes and exhaust are all pretty close, plus the frog's right about the computer adapting itself a bit

This is the most significant finding (other than dyno results) that favors the GruppeM design:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=95

The opening toward the bottom brake duct area means that if the driver's side bottom grille were opened, cold air would get to the K&N air filter. As for the throttle body, forget for a moment that it's a "Dinan." It's a stock BMW throttle body that has been bored out a little bigger with a bigger valve. Dinan's claims are a mere +5 hp max and +4 ft-lbs torque, and I am assuming this is at the wheel.

[MORRWheels]

Let us know how it goes michael. I`m also considering adding some sort of flex tube from the lower bumper opening to my GruppeM to see if you can achieve any good results from the added cooler air.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by ksfrogman

This is the most significant finding (other than dyno results) that favors the GruppeM design:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=95

The opening toward the bottom brake duct area means that if the driver's side bottom grille were opened, cold air would get to the K&N air filter. As for the throttle body, forget for a moment that it's a "Dinan." It's a stock BMW throttle body that has been bored out a little bigger with a bigger valve. Dinan's claims are a mere +5 hp max and +4 ft-lbs torque, and I am assuming this is at the wheel.

+5hp max? Hey thats like 10 garage door openers so it's not that trivial

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by n1smo

I was told in another thread that the butterfly valve stays wide open after the car is warmed up because the Valvetronic takes over the tasks of what the throttle body used to do. With that said, the only gain you will see is from the throttle body being bored out by 3mm. And I don't see how it will help since it is just at the point of the throttle body, its not like the entire inlet air track was bored out by 3mm.

Good point.

[///Matt]

I don't feel like this mod is worth the $. If it was 1/5th the price, then we can talk, or if it's part of a COMPLETE intake system, from the filter all the way to the intake ports (which would ASLO get port/polished) then I'd expect moderate gains.

If just boring out the thottle body was worthwhile for some horsepower, and won't harm mpg too much, why wouldn't BMW have just produced a wider mouth tb??

[ksfrogman]

The cylinder head and intake ports already look polished and port-matched.

There's an old saying that I think applies here. There are three potential sources of misinformation: the media, your friends and relatives. Listen to the latter two and ignore them all. Everything is speculative; let the dyno speak for itself.

[smellthebeans]

Originally Posted by n1smo

I was told in another thread that the butterfly valve stays wide open after the car is warmed up because the Valvetronic takes over the tasks of what the throttle body used to do. With that said, the only gain you will see is from the throttle body being bored out by 3mm. And I don't see how it will help since it is just at the point of the throttle body, its not like the entire inlet air track was bored out by 3mm.

The Valvetronic system is the first variable valve timing system to offer continuously variable timing (on both intake and exhaust camshafts) along with continuously variable intake valve lift, from ~0 to 10 mm, on the intake camshaft only. Valvetronic-equipped engines are unique in that they rely on the amount of valve lift to throttle the engine rather than a butterfly valve in the intake tract. In other words, in normal driving, the "gas pedal" controls the Valvetronic hardware rather than the throttle plate.

It is important to note however, that the throttle plate is not removed, but rather defaults to a fully open position once the engine is running.

Pulled this from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetronic

Makes sense to me

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by smellthebeans

The Valvetronic system is the first variable valve timing system to offer continuously variable timing (on both intake and exhaust camshafts) along with continuously variable intake valve lift, from ~0 to 10 mm, on the intake camshaft only. Valvetronic-equipped engines are unique in that they rely on the amount of valve lift to throttle the engine rather than a butterfly valve in the intake tract. In other words, in normal driving, the "gas pedal" controls the Valvetronic hardware rather than the throttle plate.

It is important to note however, that the throttle plate is not removed, but rather defaults to a fully open position once the engine is running.

Pulled this from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvetronic

Makes sense to me

Wikipedia probably got that info from us at E90post.com.

Dinan took the OEM throttle body and widened it. The inner diameter is slightly bigger, as is the butterfly valve.

The new N52 and N54 engines use a ceramic material for the valve and a different triggering mechanism.