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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Is JB+ safer on engine than JB3 or Procede?



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      06-10-2009, 08:13 PM   #1
Mantooth
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Is JB+ safer on engine than JB3 or Procede?

So from what I have been reading everyone says that the JB+/SSTT is safest way to go if your only doing ECU mod.

But, without fuel control, how can this be? Do our cars run rich normally?

All the JB+ does is up your boost without changing fuel control right?

So running lean is not a problem with only 2-3 psi increase in boost?

P.S. this is for daily driver in Socal with fairly warm temps half of the year.
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      06-10-2009, 09:08 PM   #2
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If you keep boost in the low range (JB+ at standard setting) it should be easier on many components.
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      06-10-2009, 09:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantooth View Post
So from what I have been reading everyone says that the JB+/SSTT is safest way to go if your only doing ECU mod.

But, without fuel control, how can this be? Do our cars run rich normally?

All the JB+ does is up your boost without changing fuel control right?

So running lean is not a problem with only 2-3 psi increase in boost?

P.S. this is for daily driver in Socal with fairly warm temps half of the year.
Both the JB+ and the SSTT are essentially boost controllers. They are not tunes. They don't remap fuel or timing curves. Some with little or no actual tuning knowledge will claim that this is the safest approach given their moderate boost increase. Others with disagree. You aren't going to find a common consensus on this forum.

Just a lot of flames

Shiv
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      06-10-2009, 09:35 PM   #4
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      06-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Both the JB+ and the SSTT are essentially boost controllers. They are not tunes. They don't remap fuel or timing curves. Some with little or no actual tuning knowledge will claim that this is the safest approach given their moderate boost increase. Others with disagree. You aren't going to find a common consensus on this forum.

Just a lot of flames

Shiv
With your knowledge, on moderate boost level on the JB+ or SSTT, is it honestly safer and less stress on the components?
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      06-10-2009, 09:43 PM   #6
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With your knowledge, on moderate boost level on the JB+ or SSTT, is it honestly safer and less stress on the components?
didn't he just answer that? sorry..i'm lost
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      06-10-2009, 09:44 PM   #7
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+2, Shiv is spot on.
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      06-10-2009, 10:05 PM   #8
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I think the closest to a consensus you'd get is that significantly less boost is generally safer than more boost, given reasonably good tunes or hardware.

These devices are likely safer, IMO, only to the extent you run MUCH less boost than most people run on the full tunes. However, again IMO, the higher end tunes or flashes would be safer at the same or comparable boost and hp gains (as they control more engine variables and can include more safety measures).

Realistically, if you are conservative on hp increase (e.g., adding 50-60 whp with a full tune or less with a boost controller) and not pushing the limits at a track (i.e., a daily driver), most of the tune options for n54 seem fairly safe.

Your mileage may vary and your engine will blow up immediately after installing a tune if you base the decision on this comment ;-)

Good luck.
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      06-11-2009, 02:47 AM   #9
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Shoulda bought a M3

I want a remote controlled JB+. Why doesn't this exist yet? Run stock setting all day and then when some Infiniti G37 is tooling around with me, I can just turn up the boost +3 PSI, FTW! Maybe I can ask him to pull over while I adjust my boost settings.

And I don't want to enter my ECU so Procede is not really what I am looking for. I know people say it's easy to take out, but not if your car goes limp in the middle of nowhere and you don't have a spare car to use while you get it towed home to take off the piggyback and then get it towed to dealer that won't give me a loaner. Worst case scenario of course, but hey, it could happen.
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      06-11-2009, 03:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantooth View Post
Shoulda bought a M3

I want a remote controlled JB+. Why doesn't this exist yet? Run stock setting all day and then when some Infiniti G37 is tooling around with me, I can just turn up the boost +3 PSI, FTW! Maybe I can ask him to pull over while I adjust my boost settings.

And I don't want to enter my ECU so Procede is not really what I am looking for. I know people say it's easy to take out, but not if your car goes limp in the middle of nowhere and you don't have a spare car to use while you get it towed home to take off the piggyback and then get it towed to dealer that won't give me a loaner. Worst case scenario of course, but hey, it could happen.
that would be called map switching in the Procede or JB3. you can have your car as stock and then trigger the map you want when that pesky G37 shows up. i'm sure it can be done on the JB+ but would you want to pay for the mark up?

if your car goes limp you can still drive it. it really isn't that difficult to get at the ECU, if worse comes to worse take it to a shop or knowledgeable person. they can do it for you in 20~30mins max.

i know you can dial the boost on the procede to whatever you want, not sure on the jb3.
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      06-11-2009, 03:46 AM   #11
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On Jb3 you just change map to a more performing one on the fly.
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      06-11-2009, 04:36 AM   #12
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now why would you be towing your car to the stealer anyways
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      06-11-2009, 06:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantooth View Post
So from what I have been reading everyone says that the JB+/SSTT is safest way to go if your only doing ECU mod.

But, without fuel control, how can this be? Do our cars run rich normally?

All the JB+ does is up your boost without changing fuel control right?

So running lean is not a problem with only 2-3 psi increase in boost?

P.S. this is for daily driver in Socal with fairly warm temps half of the year.
This is not your grandfathers motor. Boost, timing, and fuel are all closed loop. So adjusting the boost parameter 2-3psi for example results in the ECU adding more fuel and reducing timing on its own. In the past two years people have been tuning this motor we've seen reports of failed turbos from running too much boost, but not a single report of cracked ring lands, scorched valves, melted plugs, or other timing/fuel related problems. The weak point is the compressors. Keep boost mild, and you'll have a problem free motor for many years to come. Start running 18-20psi, probably not so much.

Mike
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      06-11-2009, 10:06 AM   #14
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if it is a closed loop, then why is the fuel wire intercepted by the JB3 and why is fuel pressure increase with this tune?
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      06-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
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if it is a closed loop, then why is the fuel wire intercepted by the JB3 and why is fuel pressure increase with this tune?
good point...
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      06-11-2009, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
if it is a closed loop, then why is the fuel wire intercepted by the JB3 and why is fuel pressure increase with this tune?
Biasing the O2 sensors allows you to change the air/fuel ratio, and altering the fuel pressure signal allows you to pass in more fuel without the ECU knowing. It also extends the limits of the fuel system. Neither is of much concern in the 2-3 psi range.

Mike
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      06-11-2009, 12:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantooth View Post
Shoulda bought a M3

I want a remote controlled JB+. Why doesn't this exist yet? Run stock setting all day and then when some Infiniti G37 is tooling around with me, I can just turn up the boost +3 PSI, FTW! Maybe I can ask him to pull over while I adjust my boost settings.

And I don't want to enter my ECU so Procede is not really what I am looking for. I know people say it's easy to take out, but not if your car goes limp in the middle of nowhere and you don't have a spare car to use while you get it towed home to take off the piggyback and then get it towed to dealer that won't give me a loaner. Worst case scenario of course, but hey, it could happen.
I assumed you don't want to spend the extra $ for Dinan then? If not then, you can't afford the M3 either And then does stock M3 really cure your need?

You have to pay to play my friend.
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      06-11-2009, 01:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
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if it is a closed loop, then why is the fuel wire intercepted by the JB3 and why is fuel pressure increase with this tune?
The wideband wires are tapped to run richer-than-stock AFR which is a good idea when running higher-than-stock boost. And the FP wire is intercepted to raise fuel pressure to have a better chance at maintaining diagnostic invisibility.

Saying that the closed loop fuel system is "good enough" to support higher boost either suggests optimism or a lack of understanding.

Shiv
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      06-11-2009, 02:12 PM   #19
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i am pre 29.2 and was advised that the FP wire was not needed for JB3 1.1. but now Rev4 increases fuel pressure below 2500rpm.
So now I am required the intercept this wire.
is this for invisibility or is there risk of running to lean?
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      06-11-2009, 02:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
i am pre 29.2 and was advised that the FP wire was not needed for JB3 1.1. but now Rev4 increases fuel pressure below 2500rpm.
So now I am required the intercept this wire.
is this for invisibility or is there risk of running to lean?
If you are going to run lean it will be at higher RPM. On maps 1-7 not much of a risk of that. Still the official suggestion is to connect the wire in all applications. You would need to check with Terry on why that is.

Mike
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      06-11-2009, 02:49 PM   #21
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Im not a car expert but i say SSTT and JB+ HURTS your car MORE than jb3 or v3. Just IMO. I say this is because of the feeling when it drives. JB3 and Procede tunes are so much smoother and has WAY less jerky motions. I had experienece with JB3 JB2 JB+ SSTT and V2 procede. SSTT and JB+ seems to be confused at times or the car seems a bit confused at times with just the upping the boost method. Car seems like its kicking in more boost but feels more grinding and heavy load on the car. Bottom line going from JB3 to JB+ the car felt like SHIT. Also my car was throwing limps crazy on JB+ but rarley on JB3. Overall i think the "real" tunes are way to go in safetyness. Power and feeling and smoothness is different night to day. JB3 and Procede> sstt/jb+ imho.
Not to mention i threw a shitload of vanos codes with the JB+ and never with the jb3.. Idk why tho.
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