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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion > Director of BMW M hints at a possible M-Sport line and M3 GT4 production.



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      07-07-2009, 05:04 PM   #23
ArabianSensation
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I am talking about a driving experience...or u telling me you rather have a Q7 V12 tdi (based on the audi as you mencioned) thats most likely faster and as more pulling power than an m3???

typical from you americans to confuse power with "pleasure".
You know, on of THE best m cars ever, is the original e30 m3...do you know how many hp it had and torque?? check it out...it might even surprise you to know that your 135i as a lot more power than that car did, but pitch both against one another and see wich one is the best!

Also read the reviews on the R8 tdi concept
Unfortunately it's people like you who have a bad perception of Diesel that has stopped it becoming big in America. Yes, I realize you are in Portugal. We have lots of people like you here.

The general perception is that diesel is a truck fuel that is dirty and loud. I see Volkswagen and Audi TDI cars on a daily basis and they are neither louder nor do they have dirtier exhaust than any gas car.

Diesel offers better gas mileage and increased torque. For example, the BMW 335d is a twin-turbo Inline 6 with 420 ft-lbs. of torque and 265 horsepower. It's received brilliant reviews. In fact, law enforcement in America is in the process of upgrading to new, diesel powered police cars with a very similar engine producing the same horsepower and torque figures. I don't know if that engine is BMW sourced but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Here is the website: http://carbonmotors.com/ Check it out for yourself.

Diesel is the easiest way for car companies to continue to provide powerful engines while improving gas mileage. It does not require new infrastructure. It does not require new engine designs. It only requires acceptance and understanding of diesel's potential to be a replacement for gasoline.

I don't see why you have a problem with an M3 having a tractor's torque, if anything that would improve performance. The M3 is about track times, not high top speeds. Handling and acceleration is more important for an M3 than top speed. Therefore, the increased torque provided by diesel engines would be an asset, not a liability as you claim.
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      07-07-2009, 05:13 PM   #24
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The "M-Sport Line" and the limited availability of the M3 GT4 for entry level race teams I think are both great ideas: one to help the bottom line (which I have nothing against, the stronger BMW is financially, the more likely they will continue to produce an exceptional product) the other to help the enthusiast. The M-sport line I bet will do a great job of combining performance line parts with some M-tech visual aides to create a sharp looking and better performing car, all for a reasonable price with a warranty. For many every day people who may not spend half their life on these boards they don't have the time or are not comfortable with mixing and matching performance parts and may not be sure what to get. BMW can combine some parts with their expertise to yield a better performing yet balanced package. The customer is happy, and BMW makes money, so its a win-win scenario.

As far as an //M diesel, I don't think it will ever happen. Though its frustrating to me how this country has no embraced clean-diesel technology. So many ignorant people just turn their nose up at diesels that burn less fuel, produce fewer emissions and are more likely to last 200k miles than hybrids, yet they run out to buy their hybrids because they are "in". If they introduce the diesel engines to the 5-series and 7-series lines, I will never buy anything but a diesel because to me a luxury car needs lots of torque, quiet and fuel efficient engine, and that is a diesel in a heartbeat. If I want high HP or insane performance I can buy an //m

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      07-07-2009, 05:41 PM   #25
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Entry level bmw GT4 what a laugh.

That thing costs 120k euro ex vat. Which entry level driver can pay that up for a race car.

A base m3 cost ex vat ex taxes say 45.000 euro. So too put in a cage and some brakes and some other parts adds 75.000 euro. ???????

Not to mention the base m3 costs off factory even less then 45.000 euro. Maybe somewhere in the 20.000 euro. There is no way that the m3 GT4 has 100k euro on race parts on that car.

Just order a M3 off factory with no option s in white i promise you you can build a gt4 for a lot less for which bmw ///Motorsport asks.

Bmw should see this project as an image maker just like the CSL. But know even on image maker they want to make money.

Porsche motorsport asks the same money for a GT3 Cup. But that s a race car. seq gearbox etc.

Bmw M3 GT4 is just off factory car with some race parts on it. Original gearbox Original wiring loom etc etc etc. Price is way way to high.
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      07-07-2009, 06:49 PM   #26
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They should bring back the M3 CSL, a stripped 1 series...and then game over!
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      07-07-2009, 09:58 PM   #27
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People buy diesels because of necessity, not because they're fun. If gas in Europe would cost as much as in the US, no one would buy Diesels.

And the GT4, well it probably won't be street legal, so who cares, bring back the CSL...
IMHO, I don't fully agree with the statement above.

Firstly, it really doesn't matter what type of engine it is, as long as it puts enough power/torque to the wheels, then I'm game and personally, if what you're after is 'fun' then why should it matter what is powering the car?

I agree that Diesel prices in Europe has been the driving force for engine development, but even if diesels cost the same per gallon as petrol (perhaps you call this "gas") it would still be cheaper to run and I'm pretty sure that while it's not a necessity for some people, it would be nice to have the same performance and at less cost per mile. So, I think even with diesel prices in the US, people would buy diesels if they can get rid of the perception that it's exclusively for trucks.

Again, IMHO, it's becoming more general and possible to have one car for both pleasure and as a daily driver. Witness M3's and M5's for example. So if they do make ///M diesels, then as a dd it can be a very frugal commuter and when you want to have some fun, it can put the power down through a decent chassis and suspension. You might not be able to rev it till the cows come home, but having the power at low revs would, I think, be rather fun also.

I agree that if one wants a 'fun' car then one might not immediately look at diesels specifically. But if one wants a 'fun' car then it really doesn't automatically exclude diesels. That would be like saying that AWD isn't fun or V6's aren't fun or whatever.

Just my $0.02
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      07-08-2009, 12:00 PM   #28
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it seems like bmw is putting a "m" badge on everything now
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      07-08-2009, 04:54 PM   #29
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My friend...drive diesel bmws for as long as i have and then a straight 6 petrol engine with half the torque and then get back to me.

Diesel are great for an everyday car...everybody in my family drives a diesel bimmer...but for an M performance car...i dont think so...sure you could call a 335d a performance car these days, it as more hp than previous generations of m cars, but keep i mind that current m cars have more power as well.
It seems to me like we are agreeing that Diesel is a good thing. Your other posts made me think you were anti-diesel.

However, I think that as diesel becomes more mainstream we will see at least one M car with a diesel engine. This may not happen for quite a while, at least for cars in the M3's class. The Audi R8 TDI has proved a venerable platform. If we can make electric sports cars (Tesla Roadster, for example) why wouldn't diesel work? With sufficient tuning, of course. I think if anyone can pull it off it's BMW's M division.

Horsepower and torque, while important, are not the deciding factor of what's a sports car and whats not. The Ariel Atom for example has a Honda sourced four cylinder producing about 265hp. It can accelerate to 100kph faster than a Bugatti Veyron with 1001hp. Why? It's extremely lightweight. Not only that but it has superb handling. The e36 M3 had only around 280hp, more than the Atom, and it takes at least twice as long as the Atom to get to 100kph.

The horsepower race is over, and car companies know this. It's not about how much horsepower you have, but how fast you can take a corner, or how fast you can accelerate. Sportscars in the future will still have horsepower ratings much higher than normal cars, but I think they will weigh a lot less too. That's probably one of the reasons Ferrari is choosing to use a V-8 with a blower for the Enzo replacement, instead of another V-12.

Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm gonna press post now. :P
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      07-08-2009, 06:14 PM   #30
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Diesel engine sound is unattractive even if clatter noise has been suppressed by multi injection you no longer have that ignition engine sound.
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      07-09-2009, 08:29 AM   #31
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INFLATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
which is mostly controlled by BMW
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