E90Post
 


MINHS Automotive
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Performance !



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-20-2009, 07:05 PM   #1
CMONEY11476
Private
1
Rep
74
Posts

Drives: 07 328 xi E92 Black/Red
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Princeton, NJ/ Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Performance !

So i just got new 19'' VMR V710s for my 328 e92. They look great but much to my dismay, they very noticeably decreased performance. Of all things, i was not expecting this, perhaps i was naive. Has anyone else had this problem with their car and more specifically a 328??? and what can i do to counteract the loss of performance???

AND

What are the best performance mods for the 328 in terms of HP and Torque gains??????


Please Help!

Sorry guys that this is confusing. And BTW, i was just on my way to CT for a few days and got a flat tire... so now im back at my house in NJ after hours of AAA.

So anyways... I'm not sure what the difference is in weight from the stock wheels, but there is a noticeable difference in acceleration. Especially at higher gears, the acceleration is a lot worse. When im crusing around at 50 mph in 6th gear, i can put my foot down and the car will barely move. Thats a big difference from before. Even low gear acceleration is very noticeably slower.

Last edited by CMONEY11476; 07-21-2009 at 12:26 AM.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 07:16 PM   #2
RVS 8
SDG
RVS 8's Avatar
United_States
30
Rep
2,160
Posts

Drives: N54
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (10)

for performance you can add an aftermarket exhaust option & or an intake!
maybe you have different tires on it may feel a bit odd after using run flats?
__________________
OEM Performance Parts | AirPlay | WAZE
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 08:09 PM   #3
SV Concepts III
Lieutenant General
263
Rep
17,021
Posts

Drives: BMW Duh
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Clara

iTrader: (13)

Send a message via AIM to SV Concepts III
Exhaust, intake and software would be a good start. You can then move on to headers and pulleys for additional gains.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 08:22 PM   #4
NiVeDh
Major General
NiVeDh's Avatar
United_States
160
Rep
8,015
Posts

Drives: '08 E90 335i, '99 E36 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, TX & Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (132)

Garage List
How did they decrease performance?
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 09:22 PM   #5
RVS 8
SDG
RVS 8's Avatar
United_States
30
Rep
2,160
Posts

Drives: N54
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (10)

i think it was naturally aspirated and on ours we gain more because of twin turbos? no?
__________________
OEM Performance Parts | AirPlay | WAZE
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 09:24 PM   #6
snipersix
Brigadier General
snipersix's Avatar
Canada
56
Rep
3,515
Posts

Drives: 2008 328i Sedan Montego Blue
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Coquitlam, bc

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Send a message via MSN to snipersix
maybe he means the car tends to have a harder time picking up since, the rims are heavier?
__________________

Retired: |2008 328i Sedan|Montego Blue|AT|Nav/Idrive|PDC|Xenon Headlights| Black Leatherette Seats, Silver trim| COTM April 2010
Mods:PIAA, H&R Sport, Blacklines, BBS LM-R, Eisenman Race Quad Exhaust , Koni yellows, Full Mtech, Gloss Black Vinyl Roof
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 09:28 PM   #7
Curt2000
Colonel
Curt2000's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
2,702
Posts

Drives: '13 ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sin City

iTrader: (25)

I thought that the VMR's were still lighter per corner than the stockers? Less rotational mass would equal an increase in performance...
__________________

Current Car: '13 SANTORINI BLUE E92///M3--6MT/Speed Cloth/ZCP (ED Thread)
Former Cars:'10 E90 335i MSport / '07 Interlagos ///M5 / '09 135i / '10 E93 335i
Instagram: @C2KMotorsports
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 09:34 PM   #8
snipersix
Brigadier General
snipersix's Avatar
Canada
56
Rep
3,515
Posts

Drives: 2008 328i Sedan Montego Blue
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Coquitlam, bc

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Send a message via MSN to snipersix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt2000 View Post
I thought that the VMR's were still lighter per corner than the stockers? Less rotational mass would equal an increase in performance...
then maybe im mistaken..
__________________

Retired: |2008 328i Sedan|Montego Blue|AT|Nav/Idrive|PDC|Xenon Headlights| Black Leatherette Seats, Silver trim| COTM April 2010
Mods:PIAA, H&R Sport, Blacklines, BBS LM-R, Eisenman Race Quad Exhaust , Koni yellows, Full Mtech, Gloss Black Vinyl Roof
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 09:52 PM   #9
jklein5525
First Lieutenant
United_States
4
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2009 335i E90 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Conshohocken, PA & Hunterdon County, NJ

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, this thread confuses me from the start. I don't understand how larger, lighter VMR wheels could decrease 'performance'. As long as the wheels are the same or lighter weight, I was under the impression this would reduce unsprung weight and help acceleration and braking.
__________________
2009 E90 335i / Montego Blue / Black / Aluminum / 6MT / ZPP / ZCW / Sirius
M Short Shifter & E-Brake / CDV / Golf Tee / +
30% / Black Finishing Rods / Matte Black Grilles / Painted Reflectors
Next: Rims / Tires
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 10:00 PM   #10
Lowcruzr
Colonel
Lowcruzr's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
2,653
Posts

Drives: '07 E92 335, '99 Civic Si, BUB
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jklein5525 View Post
Yeah, this thread confuses me from the start. I don't understand how larger, lighter VMR wheels could decrease 'performance'. As long as the wheels are the same or lighter weight, I was under the impression this would reduce unsprung weight and help acceleration and braking.
They may weigh less than stock, but the mass is concentrated farther out from the center. (Do you really want to see the math involved in this???)

We switched from stock, 15" Saturn rims on our SCCA ITA Coupe to 15" RAYS wheels. It was not only a HUGE difference in feel and performance, you could actually hear the motor rev way faster on the in-car video when comparing like-for-like footage. Unreal!! We were hitting 5th gear on tracks that we could barely top out fourth!! Imagine what 20's would do to your ride!
__________________
'07 E92 335i |Crimson Red|Saddle|ZSP|ZPP|PDC|Heated|Logic|Step|Paddles|

Mods |Painted Kidneys|Black Lower Mesh Grills|Rho-plate|7500 GP Fogs|JB3 2.0|LED Tag Lights|Rear Fogs|And maybe some day an M3 Rear Spoiler|
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 10:13 PM   #11
Curt2000
Colonel
Curt2000's Avatar
United_States
101
Rep
2,702
Posts

Drives: '13 ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sin City

iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowcruzr View Post
They may weigh less than stock, but the mass is concentrated farther out from the center. (Do you really want to see the math involved in this???)

We switched from stock, 15" Saturn rims on our SCCA ITA Coupe to 15" RAYS wheels. It was not only a HUGE difference in feel and performance, you could actually hear the motor rev way faster on the in-car video when comparing like-for-like footage. Unreal!! We were hitting 5th gear on tracks that we could barely top out fourth!! Imagine what 20's would do to your ride!
Yeah, lets hear the rotational mass mathematics
__________________

Current Car: '13 SANTORINI BLUE E92///M3--6MT/Speed Cloth/ZCP (ED Thread)
Former Cars:'10 E90 335i MSport / '07 Interlagos ///M5 / '09 135i / '10 E93 335i
Instagram: @C2KMotorsports
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 10:36 PM   #12
Tee-Dub
Captain
Tee-Dub's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
753
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA

iTrader: (9)

I doubt the average driver is going to notice the difference. I put Rays forged wheels on my S2000 in the same 17" stock size and noticed an improvement, but were talking a wheel that is drastically lighter than the stock S2K wheels, plus on a car that has far less torque than a 328i.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2009, 11:13 PM   #13
HeelToe
Major
HeelToe's Avatar
United_States
44
Rep
1,311
Posts

Drives: Rapidly from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2013 BMW 135is  [4.50]
2006 330i  [4.50]
2014 X1 2.8i xDrive  [0.00]
2000 323Ci  [3.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt2000 View Post
Yeah, lets hear the rotational mass mathematics
The moment of inertia is:

I = integral (R^2 dm)

where m is mass and r is the perpendicular distance to the axis of rotation.

Been a long time since I studied this but basically think of it as a flywheel. The more mass at the edge of the flywheel the harder it is to speed up, slow down, and change direction.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 12:03 AM   #14
RVS 8
SDG
RVS 8's Avatar
United_States
30
Rep
2,160
Posts

Drives: N54
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToe View Post
The moment of inertia is:

I = integral (R^2 dm)

where m is mass and r is the perpendicular distance to the axis of rotation.

Been a long time since I studied this but basically think of it as a flywheel. The more mass at the edge of the flywheel the harder it is to speed up, slow down, and change direction.
ahh yes physics your correct, and hmm centriptal acceleration or force mayb
__________________
OEM Performance Parts | AirPlay | WAZE
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 12:26 AM   #15
CMONEY11476
Private
1
Rep
74
Posts

Drives: 07 328 xi E92 Black/Red
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Princeton, NJ/ Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Sorry guys that this is confusing. And BTW, i was just on my way to CT for a few days and got a flat tire... so now im back at my house in NJ after hours of AAA.

So anyways... I'm not sure what the difference is in weight from the stock wheels, but there is a noticeable difference in acceleration. Especially at higher gears, the acceleration is a lot worse. When im crusing around at 50 mph in 6th gear, i can put my foot down and the car will barely move. Thats a big difference from before. Even low gear acceleration is very noticeably slower.
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 07:50 AM   #16
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
TSM330i's Avatar
United_States
89
Rep
3,168
Posts

Drives: E90 330i, E86 Z4 3.0si
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

iTrader: (2)

Read this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281392
Light weight wheels are a performance part. Heavier wheels or the same weight with a larger diameter will definitely affect all dynamics of driving.

I don't know what size you had from stock, but it looks like the V710 combo for the front rim/tire is 50lbs. You may be around the same weight, but with a larger diameter, which would decrease performance.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148405
__________________
2006 330i, TSM, Black, Sport, JIC Cross Coil-Overs, UUC Sways, 18" Advan RS, Mich PSS 255/265, BMW Electric Steering Wheel, Rogue shifter, M-Tech front, CF emblems, Dinan TB, Intake, exhaust, strut bar, Stoptech BBK, LSD, M3 susp., LUX 5, CF Hood and CSL, Sparco Seats, AA tune, CF Roof
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 02:42 PM   #17
nhhiep
Captain
20
Rep
739
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona

iTrader: (0)

the feeling that you get is normal. I switched the 16" stock to 18" 162s and it feels slower
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 02:50 PM   #18
Lowcruzr
Colonel
Lowcruzr's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
2,653
Posts

Drives: '07 E92 335, '99 Civic Si, BUB
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rochester, NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToe View Post
The moment of inertia is:

I = integral (R^2 dm)

where m is mass and r is the perpendicular distance to the axis of rotation.

Been a long time since I studied this but basically think of it as a flywheel. The more mass at the edge of the flywheel the harder it is to speed up, slow down, and change direction.
He beat me to it; well done!! This is why your lighter, but larger, wheels can still have an impact on performance.
__________________
'07 E92 335i |Crimson Red|Saddle|ZSP|ZPP|PDC|Heated|Logic|Step|Paddles|

Mods |Painted Kidneys|Black Lower Mesh Grills|Rho-plate|7500 GP Fogs|JB3 2.0|LED Tag Lights|Rear Fogs|And maybe some day an M3 Rear Spoiler|
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 03:37 PM   #19
mike-y
just another bmw douche bag
United_States
41
Rep
3,403
Posts

Drives: 1.9L of fury
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (4)

you didn't mention what size tire you put on those 19s either. the overall tire diameter can also make a difference
Appreciate 0
      07-21-2009, 04:42 PM   #20
chaz58
Captain
chaz58's Avatar
10
Rep
701
Posts

Drives: 328iT
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Detroit Burbs

iTrader: (0)

I dropped 20lbs/wheel and can't say I felt a difference in acceleration (although the axle hops around a lot less). But, I certainly can feel a difference when I change the gear ratios from changing tire size. You didn't do that, did you?
__________________
_________________________________________________

Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:44 PM.




e90post
e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST