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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > is oil change every 9000km too much...?



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      07-19-2009, 01:44 PM   #1
spacegraye70
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is oil change every 9000km too much...?

i DIY my oil change between the free dealer change. changed once already and i'm at 15,500 kms on the odometer. the first time i changed oil i cut open the oil filter and found tiny thin metal shavings but i guess that's normal from a new engine. i'm somewhat uncomfortable with changing oil once very 20,000+ kms. i used castrol syntec 5w30 and it costs me about $60 per change including a new filter from dealer i guess its fine. what are your views about this?
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      07-19-2009, 03:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
REPOST!

This topic have been beaten to death. Do a search and you will find everyone's opinions.
what's your take on this specifically?
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      07-19-2009, 05:01 PM   #3
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5-6k?
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      07-19-2009, 06:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
Some people change the oil like they do on the older cars (every 5K, 6K, or 8K).

I change the oil when the car tells me to.
+1,

what amazes me most is that people out there *think* somehow their know how on the subject is better than that of the factory that built the car. Yeah the millions and millions that BMW spent on R&D on engines is simply not as good as the opinion of Joe the mechanic with a golden tooth, who I might add has lots of incentive to see you often at his garage.
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      07-19-2009, 08:01 PM   #5
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5-6k miles for oil change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
+1,

what amazes me most is that people out there *think* somehow their know how on the subject is better than that of the factory that built the car. Yeah the millions and millions that BMW spent on R&D on engines is simply not as good as the opinion of Joe the mechanic with a golden tooth, who I might add has lots of incentive to see you often at his garage.
Have you ever examined the oil coming out of the engine after about 10k miles? The oil is REALLY dirty and cloggy (think buffalo's diarrhea). There's clearly a conflict of interest for the car maker. They want you into a NEW car after a certain period. They'll be damned if everyone keeps driving an old car that runs like new. After all, a car maker's primary purpose is to sell cars, not spend on R&D to help people maintain their 10-year old cars...

Secondly, BMW has to pay out if its pocket for your scheduled maintenance. If the interval is every 5k, then they'll be losing a lot of money. Granted, a car can still run fine if it had intervals of 20k miles before an oil change. However, compare that same car to a car that had oil change every 5k miles, the difference in engine performance after a long time will be huge.

And who would actually go to a mechanic for an oil change? Anyone who visits a car forum and doesn't know how to change their oil should be ashamed, very ashamed.

Last edited by samchoi604; 07-19-2009 at 08:17 PM.
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      07-19-2009, 10:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
5-6k miles for oil change.

Have you ever examined the oil coming out of the engine after about 10k miles? The oil is REALLY dirty and cloggy (think buffalo's diarrhea). There's clearly a conflict of interest for the car maker. They want you into a NEW car after a certain period. They'll be damned if everyone keeps driving an old car that runs like new. After all, a car maker's primary purpose is to sell cars, not spend on R&D to help people maintain their 10-year old cars...

Secondly, BMW has to pay out if its pocket for your scheduled maintenance. If the interval is every 5k, then they'll be losing a lot of money. Granted, a car can still run fine if it had intervals of 20k miles before an oil change. However, compare that same car to a car that had oil change every 5k miles, the difference in engine performance after a long time will be huge.

And who would actually go to a mechanic for an oil change? Anyone who visits a car forum and doesn't know how to change their oil should be ashamed, very ashamed.
Sorry man, I can't say I agree with you. The best way to sell a new car is have the old model of the car rolling on the streets. Volvo's reputation of durable and strong cars was not built by ads but by having the 740 wagons tote around the streets decades after they were sold. If you examine an automobile as whole and list all possible things that can make it last longer you will discover that doubling the frequency of synthetic oil changes on modern engines is the least effective way to spend your money.

And yes, some people do pay for oil changes because of many reasons. Some aren't mechanically inclined and some just don't like to get dirty and some simply don't have the place to do them. Nothing to be ashamed about.
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      07-19-2009, 11:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
doubling the frequency of synthetic oil changes on modern engines is the least effective way to spend your money.
just want to minimize any chance for sludge build up.
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      07-19-2009, 11:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
Sorry man, I can't say I agree with you. The best way to sell a new car is have the old model of the car rolling on the streets. Volvo's reputation of durable and strong cars was not built by ads but by having the 740 wagons tote around the streets decades after they were sold. If you examine an automobile as whole and list all possible things that can make it last longer you will discover that doubling the frequency of synthetic oil changes on modern engines is the least effective way to spend your money.


It's cool, but do you have any source for your last statement?

For my side of the argument, someone actually has done a study on the dirty oil for an N54 engine. The results are below:

-High iron count which was 3 times the average of those who have changed at 5500 miles
-High Nitration, which indicates the oil was used longer then it should have been.
-Viscosity higher then average. Remember, viscosity testing is done at 210 degrees farenheit, which is 40-60 degrees lower then normal operation oil temps in the n54 engine. Viscosity is thought to have a direct relationship with oil temperatures. Higher the temperature, the more the oil loses its strength. Now imagine what the viscosity is at 250-270F.

With those things being said and from speaking with several different fluid dynamic engineers, BMW is wrong for saying it's ok to change the oil for the n54 engine at 15,000 miles, especially with higher then average oil temperatures.





http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280168
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      07-20-2009, 07:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samchoi604 View Post
And who would actually go to a mechanic for an oil change? Anyone who visits a car forum and doesn't know how to change their oil should be ashamed, very ashamed.
Yes,all automakers have a an incentive to get you into their new car showroom every 3-5 years vs every 8-10.And any manufacturerer that's offering "free" maintenence has an incentive to provide as little of that maintenence as possible.I'll be averaging about 12K-14K miles/yr on my new diesel and plan to go no more than 6 months/7K miles between oil changes,using the required synthetic of course.

And as for folks changing their own I'd love to be able to...and always did until recently.But the surgeon who recently replaced my hip (yes,I'm an old fart!) has told me that my days of changing my own oil are over.
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      07-20-2009, 08:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacegraye70 View Post
just want to minimize any chance for sludge build up.
I discovered that with synthetics sludge build up is virtually nonexistent. Recently I had the valve cover of my M3 out to do a valve adjustment and I was simply amazed by the cleanliness of that 20 year close to 6 digits mileage engine. It was squeaky clean.

Now don't get me wrong I am not saying that going from 15K intervals down to 5K makes no difference. Guess what, if you changed your oil every day vs 5K it would make a difference too. I am saying that the difference as it relates to the rest of your car is negligent. I come across this ALL the time, people proudly changing their oil every 5K and then when you asked them when was the last time they've done brake fluid flushes or coolant flushes they look at you with that "what is that?" face. The point I am getting at is that extra oil change you were planning on doing is better to be replaced by another maintenance task to the car or set that money aside for when you really need it.

If 5K changes make you sleep better at night then do it, piece of mind for less than $100 is well worth it.
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      07-20-2009, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
I discovered that with synthetics sludge build up is virtually nonexistent. Recently I had the valve cover of my M3 out to do a valve adjustment and I was simply amazed by the cleanliness of that 20 year close to 6 digits mileage engine. It was squeaky clean
how often did you change your oil on your m3?
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      07-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
I don't trust lab results unless the lab equipment is validated to pharmaceutical standards, 21 CFR Part 11 compliant, and laboratory have been audited by myself in person. Lab results are meaningless especially testing was done on a single engine.
The test was not supposed to be a clinical trial used for research publication. At worse, I assume that there is a +/- 10% error in the lab equipment, but look at the results, the concentration of iron is 300% more than normal.

Quote:
You know, one would think the people who sits, stands, and sleeps with a BMW engine would know a tiny bit more about the engine than individuals who sits in front of the computer making assumptions based on somebody else's results without hesitation.
The engineers who make these engines have no say in this matter. It's the high level businessmen and possibly the accountants who are telling us when to do an oil change.
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      07-20-2009, 11:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
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T"Why change the oil and get yourself dirty if you have the luxury and can pay other people to do it for you?"
i dont get dirty changing my oil. i actually consider it a fun time haha. usually it takes me 30 mins but i take 1 hr because i also clean the engine compartment and some quick detailing. with DIY my car's oil gets changed whenever i want. i don't need to drive anywhere or make any appointments.
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      07-20-2009, 12:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
+1,

what amazes me most is that people out there *think* somehow their know how on the subject is better than that of the factory that built the car. Yeah the millions and millions that BMW spent on R&D on engines is simply not as good as the opinion of Joe the mechanic with a golden tooth, who I might add has lots of incentive to see you often at his garage.
Stop it now, you're making too much sense!
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      07-20-2009, 05:24 PM   #15
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Stop it now, you're making too much sense!
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      07-22-2009, 12:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noro View Post
+1,

what amazes me most is that people out there *think* somehow their know how on the subject is better than that of the factory that built the car. Yeah the millions and millions that BMW spent on R&D on engines is simply not as good as the opinion of Joe the mechanic with a golden tooth, who I might add has lots of incentive to see you often at his garage.
+1
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      07-22-2009, 01:02 AM   #17
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Probably unnecessary, but I can't see how changing your oil 'too often' could cause any problems.
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      07-22-2009, 01:45 AM   #18
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While at the BMW Welt in Munich, I asked the technician who was setting up/assisting with the delivery of my car what his opinion was on this subject. Granted he is not an engineer nor a mechanic, but he has been working with BMW's for the better part of 15 years and owns one himself.

He said that he has heard many opinions on oil changes himself, both from customers and from co-workers. He said that he follows the recommendations made by BMW on his own car (a three-door 1-Series). He said that many people are adamant on the 7,500 km oil change, but he believes this is a hold-over from cars of the past.

While his opinion is by no way a "standard," I put it out here just for one other idea on the subject. I myself am still undecided, but will probably do a break-in oil change around 7,500 km and then follow the recommended schedule from BMW.
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