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      07-31-2009, 06:16 PM   #89
Ramos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montoya View Post
When your debt exceeds your assets that defines bankruptcy.

Really?? First off all dude, debt can never exceed Assets on a Balance Sheet unless you have Negative Equity !!!

Bankruptcy is defined when a business is no longer viable as an ongoing concern... It has to do with FUTURE revenues and FUTURE ability to service your debt... Porsche is VERY VERY much a going concern, and nowhere near bankruptcy, they are just playing control games with VW.. It's all in the family anyway... Don't post B/S please
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      07-31-2009, 06:17 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemah View Post
Fernando Alonso

Thats pretty much when i stopped buying BMWs or paying attention to the BMW team

The car might be great, but you have to get a driver to make it a winner

and you dont feel like buying a car that a winner does not drive

I see you drive a Porsche and not a Renault ? What give?
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      08-01-2009, 07:42 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolToolGuy View Post
IMHO, BMW is in business to sell vehicles (not to race), and they think that racing improves the breed - YMMV.

Just like for individuals, a recession may require companies to make some cutbacks - and the circus that is F1 would probably be among my first choices. If BMW stayed in, they would have to commit (via the Concorde Agreement) to stay in until 2012. I think their money is best spent elsewhere. Again, YMMV.

Porsche quit LeMans to deveiop the Cayenne & Panamera and that, to me, is a form of racing that is closer to the development of street cars than F1. At least BMW has not (yet) pulled out of ALMS and other such series.

But if you think arguing with Bernie and dealing with Max's eccentricities are more important than developing technologies for the future, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. In that case, YMDV.

Have Fun,
Rick
Finally, some logic in this thread. It makes more sense for BMW to concentrate on racing series that provide closer development for the road cars. F1 is out of control, and there is no point throwing away money that could be better invested elsewhere.

I also expect Mercedes to at least scale down their involvement and Renault to get out altogether.

Despite what the politicians say, the car companies are still in for many hard years. They can't afford to be spending money on something that really only helps them sell some t-shirts..... and yes I have 2 (t-shirts that is)
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      08-01-2009, 07:52 AM   #92
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Guys, let's not go too far out in left field. F1 has always led to in production developments, from traction control, ABS/Computer controlled braking, tiptronic transmissions, and would imagine some day a form of KERS. The top aerospace engineers and designers work on the teams, and are some the brightest minds in the world. While it's not like Honda who came and out relatively quickly, BMW has been in F1 for decades in one form or another. I do hope they don't abandon their racing routes entirely remain in such series as AMLS, etc, and they probably will. F1 as a solo manufacturer is an expensive proposition, and globally everyone is hurting. Heck, I'd think a BMW DTM US spec series would be a great thing...however, we still have to get past the NASCARvision that floods the US airwaves. There hasn't been all that many new road courses to open in recent years, let alone much improvements to the existing tracks.
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      08-01-2009, 09:26 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formel1 View Post
BMW has been in F1 for decades in one form or another. I do hope they don't abandon their racing routes entirely
I'm trying to figure out if you did that on purpose or not. I'm going for not.
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      08-01-2009, 09:45 AM   #94
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Long night, early morning.
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      08-01-2009, 10:59 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Porsche is VERY VERY much a going concern, and nowhere near bankruptcy, they are just playing control games with VW.. It's all in the family anyway...
+1

I thought it was interesting that some aspects of the merger likely won't happen until sometime in 2011 - it can't be that much of a crisis. Porsche just needed some cash, and now that it looks like they're getting it, crisis over. The irony is that Porsche tried to powerplay and take over VW, and now they will be the 10th car division in VW's stable.

I think VW, because of their close working relationship (family, suppliers) w/ Porsche, won't be changing things too much.
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      08-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #96
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The idea that a company that has to delete ash trays and hood insulation to stay in the black can afford F1 is foolish.
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      08-02-2009, 09:59 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
The idea that a company that has to delete ash trays and hood insulation to stay in the black can afford F1 is foolish.
Even if they never competed in Formula 1, they will still remove hood insulations and ashtrays since it reduce cost no matter what.

Now they pull out, its not like they will announce "We are proudly announcing to our BMW 3-series customers, we will start retrofitting heat insulation to customer's vehicle and install ash trays to 2009 3-series."
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      08-02-2009, 03:55 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Even if they never competed in Formula 1, they will still remove hood insulations and ashtrays since it reduce cost no matter what.

Now they pull out, its not like they will announce "We are proudly announcing to our BMW 3-series customers, we will start retrofitting heat insulation to customer's vehicle and install ash trays to 2009 3-series."
Not exactly my point.
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      08-04-2009, 08:34 AM   #99
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2 cents

it all over folks Michael Schumacher is back and this has taken a backseat. Back to my point before about driver and the car. Ferrari need him and it drives wins with an impact on sales. He also has a huge say and can do what he wants to do at Ferrari.

BMW needed Alonso and that would have begun one hell of a marriage for years to come, from a drivers championship point of view, constructors championship, and the overall German competition between Merc etc. It might have gone down in history if it all stuck like glue and made it awesome to watch on tv. Unfortunately it did not happen for many fans and it was very wishful thinking on my part. Also I dont think Renault is in the USA under the Renault badge. Is there?

Formula 1 fans will have to hope the silly season from now to the end plays out well. And the Renaults can put up a fight.

BMW has so many cars now, I just want a fast sportscar with it being small. Something comparable to a 911, with a huge engine.

But then how do you plan to advertise it, watch an M3 winning? get back in the big game folks..F1!

Im not sure if there is still a way to do this, you guys are the experts..

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      08-10-2009, 02:37 PM   #100
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BMW to officially end F1 racing... =(

Not sure if any of you actually follow F1 racing, a glorious and sexy sport, but sadly I read recently that the BMW F1 Sauber team is calling it quits after this season...


Which means, the major companies that we all know that still run true F1 are

Ferrari (Ferrari and STR)
Mercedes (Braun, MacLaren and Force India)
Toyota (Williams and Toyota Racing)
Renault (Redbull)..

Read more here..
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/7/9698.html



Goodbye BMW Sauber F1...

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      08-10-2009, 02:52 PM   #101
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I don't really follow F1 much, but still sad news.
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      08-10-2009, 02:56 PM   #102
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any specific reason why?
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      08-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #103
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any specific reason why?
money and lack of success.
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      08-10-2009, 03:00 PM   #104
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The past couple years they've done poorly I think... as BMW put it, they don't see it as being a central focus on their "new initiatives"

I'm just fearful that some of the racing heritage that makes BMW a BMW is gonna be lost.

Plus, Mercedes MacLaren and Braun have been kicking the shit out of BMW in recent events. This season BMW is in like 8th place out of 10... so maybe thats why.
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      08-10-2009, 03:03 PM   #105
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Well, it's not that big a surprise. Lots of sponsors have pulled out recently.
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      08-10-2009, 03:05 PM   #106
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A quote from a different forum will help you all understand part of the reason why this choice was made:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rage20980
Ferrari spends around $450m-$500m on their F1 team. They also pull in the same amount in sponsorship, prize money, TV money, etc. Ferrari AFAIK operates their F1 team at a small profit.

BMW's target was to win the F1 championship this year. They're not even close to doing it, so they called it quits. BMW won't be pulling in the dollars like Ferrari, so they're probably operating at a loss of under $50m. Their board never mentioned the economy in the press conference, just poor performance, and realigning BMW's image towards "sustainability and environmental compatibility", whatever that means.

Honda's pullout last year was a mix of poor performance and $. Honda had no sponsors, so they were probably losing $250m-$300m a year!

And don't think that just because BMW is dropping F1 Sauber that they are leaving their racing heritage in the past. They still have the Gt class races and with this much more money to spend, this will allow them to focus that budget to various other places
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      08-10-2009, 03:07 PM   #107
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For more discussion, go to the Professional Motorsports section's ongoing discussion on this topic.
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      08-10-2009, 03:08 PM   #108
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any specific reason why?
They're looking to get into NASCAR.
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      08-10-2009, 03:13 PM   #109
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They're looking to get into NASCAR.
LETS HOPE NOT!

I agree with the post above, I was exaggerating with BMW losing its racing heritage, but still a sad blow.

does anyone know when audi dropped out?

also, there's a fucking sick video on youtube of Richard Hammond from Top Gear learning how to drive an F1, shit its funny... but very interesting as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo
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      08-10-2009, 03:19 PM   #110
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Once Ferrari & Mercedes pull out F1 will be over. And as always change is inevitable
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