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      08-12-2009, 02:25 AM   #67
Ocker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
Yes. SZL is on F-CAN. The packet data is foward to PT-CAN by DSC. Then JBE foward the data from PT-CAN to K-CAN.
Hi efunroom,

Is this confirmed. Does the SZL steering button press go via the PT-CAN bus to the K-CAN?

The reason I ask is because I just fitted a little freescale to PT-CAN on my car to log engine data (if anyone can point me in the right direction for decoding PT-CAN engine data, please let me know!!), and I figured it may be useful to use the steering buttons as an interface to my logger. If my logger can pick up the button presses I could use it to control logging etc.

The only reason I question your logic is because the diagram in the first post shows that the F-CAN is connected directly to the JBE, so in theory couldn;t it act as a gateway direct from F-CAN to K-CAN rather than requiring the messages to go through DSC to PT-CAN first? Or is the JBE not actually active on the F-CAN bus and is only acting as a jumper to the SZL?

Anyway, so my questions are:

1) Are SZL button press message definately available on PT-CAN?
2) If so, has anyone got any info on how to find these messages (I am already able to read PT-CAN messages, but no idea how to determine the right IDs for these messages etc.)
3) Has anyone got any info on how to decode engine data messages on the PT-CAN bus?

Thanks in advance!!

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      08-12-2009, 09:27 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocker View Post
Anyway, so my questions are:

1) Are SZL button press message definately available on PT-CAN?
2) If so, has anyone got any info on how to find these messages (I am already able to read PT-CAN messages, but no idea how to determine the right IDs for these messages etc.)
3) Has anyone got any info on how to decode engine data messages on the PT-CAN bus?

Thanks in advance!!

Ocker
1) Its possible, the only reference I have seen that supports that is:

"F-CAN Link
The DSC control module is connected via the F-CAN to the SZL and serves as the gateway
for the SZL, allowing data from the SZL to be distributed to the other control modules."

It should be noted that this was in context of the steering wheel angle and may not be universal. It is also a very round-about way to get to K-CAN since the JBE is already on all 3 buses, so FCAN to KCAN should be possible without having to access PT-CAN. I dont know why the DSC would have to get involved (FCAN -> PT-CAN) but you never know with BMW.


This would seem to support that suggestion:

"
Signal Flow
The acquired and calculated data of the SZL are mainly transferred via the F-CAN to the
corresponding control module.
The information for diagnosis is therefore also transferred via the F-CAN to the DSC. The
DSC establishes the communication interface with the BMW diagnosis system. The SZL
cannot be addressed directly via the BMW diagnosis system.
The DSC must be coded after replacing the steering column switch cluster. The coding
data is then transferred from the DSC to the SZL."

So unless someone has actually caught the button msgs, to me it is unclear.

2) You may not need to know the IDs. If you read a few posts into the beginning of this thread you'll see I was able to isolate some buttons by the following method: I would presume that the buttons are not currently transmitting on the bus. Construct a program to collect all ids and able to filter all those ids on your command. You allow the program to collect ids for a few seconds, then execute the filter. Afterwards, push a button and see if any new ids pop up that correlate to that button press.

BTW, the processor I used is a Freescale part as well. It contains their FlexCan controller.

3) Sorry, I dont. If you find out please post it here.
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      09-05-2009, 04:13 PM   #69
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manage bus traffic

also interested in using the steering wheel buttons.
so far a lot of information were reported to this thread, very interesting and very COMPLEX!!!
i'm waiting for my own can to rs232 adapter (www.can232.com) to arrive and start tapping to my victim-vehicle :-)
as a new member here, i would also like to ask a very important question.
since this work is mostly trial and error, the way to find the commands flowing to the bus and are of interest is very important.
a nice solution is to isolate the idle traffic from the traffic generated when user interacts (as some people here have done)
the question is how have you done it?
my approach would be a simple ascii terminal. should i reconsider?
how do you isolate traffic?

thanks you,

Giorgos
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      09-10-2009, 10:49 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kounelii View Post
... i would also like to ask a very important question.
since this work is mostly trial and error, the way to find the commands flowing to the bus and are of interest is very important.
a nice solution is to isolate the idle traffic from the traffic generated when user interacts (as some people here have done)
the question is how have you done it?
my approach would be a simple ascii terminal. should i reconsider?
how do you isolate traffic?

thanks you,

Giorgos
I suppose you could try to use an ascii terminal but there are a few significant issues to deal with...

1) The CAN to RS232 hardware is just a bridge between the two networks. It doesnt do any data translation. For example, the raw data value of 0x30 represents the number '0' in ASCII. So, alot of the CAN data is going to translate into extended ascii characters. This will look like garbage in ascii on the screen.

Ex:

q`j|CF
[&eVg!r fW<|_
o"dN]>$Zq( v2??sF
l""b>
??"}{)x![9{uUi$Bi}mZ@M?? bD\}90h391
sPwC/mTh%
P fbX̧jG?l;E5\3le$8aC???@
\S`:wA:Sx`
|U4iפ_F??)պs߯ 9*w<+??
@Hj@K}R??7^fcy%tm]M??,>Ma??Am>

2) Even if you use something like RealTerm to generate the hex values into a readable format, you would then have to parse through the dump. This could take alot of effort. In the end you would be better off writing something to access the com port (RS232) and gather the values. You would then put together your own sorting/histogram/etc routine or you could have it generate a CSV file and try using something like Excel to analyze the data.
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      11-19-2009, 07:14 AM   #71
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Can monitoring / interface

Hi This is a low cost way

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/e...Doc/51757a.pdf

The board is available for about 40 uk pounds from www.farnell.com in the uk
Order Code: 1676254
or

newark.com
order code 07P9512 $55

It has windows sniffer software supplied and the ability to setup filters etc.
I havn't tried it but it looks like it will do the job.


Peter
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      01-14-2010, 03:25 PM   #72
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Hi E90-hackerZ :-)

I have developed a piece of PC-software for a BMW Carputer that comes with the look and feel of the latest 7-series (F01). While I am interested in telling you that I also thought I post some of the things I learners while developing it.
Initial findings came from a guy in spain who can be found at xolmatic.com

He shared his findings very openly with me and I thought I share mine with this forum. Lots of codes as traced in my E65:

http://www.carx24.de/E65_Codes.xls

Lot of stuff in there, how to read the iDrive button, how to change the haptic, light status, steering wheel buttons being pressed. transmission (gear) position (P, N, D, R and 1-6), windows position, lights etc etc.

Best regards and keep it up.

PS: I would be particularly interested in some additional data regarding GPS data (lat and lon, must be somewhere on that bus...) as well as actual street and city info from the NAV.

Rgds

Andy
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      03-29-2010, 01:38 PM   #73
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K-CAN messages

Hello,

Here is my 2005 E90 325i sterring whell buttons and the i-drive knob messages:

Previous track button press: 1D6 2 D000
Next track button press: 1D6 2 E000
Romboid button press: 1D6 2 C040
Star button press: 1D6 2 C010
Volume up button: 1D6 2 C800
Volume down button: 1D6 2 C400
Voice command button: 1D6 2 C001
Phone button: 1D6 2 C100

I-drive Menu button: 1B8 6 0FC5nnnnA16F (or 0FC4nnnnA16F, sometimes C4 sometimes C5)
I-drive knob press: 1B8 6 0FC1nnnnA16F
I-drive knob up: 1B8 6 00C0nnnnA16F
I-drive knob down: 1B8 6 04C0nnnnA16F
I-drive knob left: 1B8 6 06C0nnnnA16F
I-drive knob right: 1B8 6 02C0nnnnA16F
I-drive knob rotate right: 1B8 6 0FC0nnnnA16F (nnnn is increasing)
I-drive knob rotate left: 1B8 6 0FC0nnnnA16F (nnnn is decreasing)

nnnn min = 0000
nnnn max = FFFF (left byte is the lower byte)

After the I-drive knob returned back to the normal position (from every position): 1B8 6 0FC0nnnnA16F message is coming

Only the Menu button message is not clear for me.

Kdbcz
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      04-01-2010, 04:54 AM   #74
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To: master_of_disaster

In your spreadsheet you have 'engine start' messages. Is that what you send to start an engine or is that just a notification that you use to check if engine is running?

I wonder if it is that possible in theory to start an engine by a message on KCAN. I can definitely stop the engine with one KCAN message ;-)
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      09-28-2010, 12:10 PM   #75
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Reviving an old thread. I am looking for the easiest place to pick up CAN+ and CAN- without having to tap into the ECU. I am looking for a place in the interior of the car. I have checked the OBD2 port for CAN which is usually on 6 and 14 but it does not seem to be present. This is on an 2007 E90 335i. It is present on an M3. I also tried to find K-Line at the OBD2 port and that is not present as well. I know CAN+ is red/blue and CAN- is Red at the ECU.

I need this for data logging purposes.

Thanks
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      09-28-2010, 12:13 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordantii View Post
Reviving an old thread. I am looking for the easiest place to pick up CAN+ and CAN- without having to tap into the ECU. I am looking for a place in the interior of the car. I have checked the OBD2 port for CAN which is usually on 6 and 14 but it does not seem to be present. This is on an 2007 E90 335i. It is present on an M3. I also tried to find K-Line at the OBD2 port and that is not present as well. I know CAN+ is red/blue and CAN- is Red at the ECU.

I need this for data logging purposes.

Thanks
Back of the radio/iDrive.
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      09-28-2010, 05:01 PM   #77
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Quote:
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Back of the radio/iDrive.
I should clarify. No Idrive and easily accessible would be great. Otherwise I will just tap the ECT with some DTM pins.
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      09-28-2010, 06:19 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordantii View Post
Reviving an old thread. I am looking for the easiest place to pick up CAN+ and CAN- without having to tap into the ECU. I am looking for a place in the interior of the car. I have checked the OBD2 port for CAN which is usually on 6 and 14 but it does not seem to be present. This is on an 2007 E90 335i. It is present on an M3. I also tried to find K-Line at the OBD2 port and that is not present as well. I know CAN+ is red/blue and CAN- is Red at the ECU.

I need this for data logging purposes.

Thanks
Use the JBE module under the Glovebox, you will need to remove the kickpanel to access the module.

Pins 7 & 8 are PT-CAN High/Low
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      09-29-2010, 06:39 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Use the JBE module under the Glovebox, you will need to remove the kickpanel to access the module.

Pins 7 & 8 are PT-CAN High/Low
Great thanks. Also, do you know what CAN shows up at the OBD2 port, pins 6 and 14?
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      09-30-2010, 11:52 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordantii View Post
Great thanks. Also, do you know what CAN shows up at the OBD2 port, pins 6 and 14?
This depends on the build date, BMW started removing the K Line from OBD2 at about 6/07 production.
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      09-30-2010, 03:47 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
This depends on the build date, BMW started removing the K Line from OBD2 at about 6/07 production.
My build is prior to that. When I checked there was no K-Line either. Whats funny is that CAN (PT) is not there either.
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      09-30-2010, 05:04 PM   #82
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My build is prior to that. When I checked there was no K-Line either. Whats funny is that CAN (PT) is not there either.
For those with the K Line still in the OBD2 connector, this will be PIN7.
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      10-02-2010, 07:38 AM   #83
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For those with the K Line still in the OBD2 connector, this will be PIN7.
Thanks for that. So the final questions is who has a pin out for the obd connector?
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      10-08-2010, 06:52 AM   #84
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Last question really; is key on power also available at the JBE? Power and GND?
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      10-08-2010, 12:29 PM   #85
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Last question really; is key on power also available at the JBE? Power and GND?
Yes, there is a +12V switched, Constant and Ground at the JBE.
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      10-08-2010, 05:28 PM   #86
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Thanks a lot Tom. I pulled the kick panel and after looking at what I think is the JBE I have decided it might be easier to simply tap the ECU. There are 3 connectors on the JBE and there is limited space to work. Unless you have some insight I may just go to the ECU.

I work for AiM Sports and need to be able to connect different Data Loggers,Dash's and SmartyCams to the car for testing/development purposes.

Thanks for the help.

Jordan
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      10-08-2010, 05:44 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordantii View Post
Thanks a lot Tom. I pulled the kick panel and after looking at what I think is the JBE I have decided it might be easier to simply tap the ECU. There are 3 connectors on the JBE and there is limited space to work. Unless you have some insight I may just go to the ECU.

I work for AiM Sports and need to be able to connect different Data Loggers,Dash's and SmartyCams to the car for testing/development purposes.

Thanks for the help.

Jordan
Jordan,

Small world - I've actually been looking into the MXL unit to be used in a 135 for Street RWD class in Time Attack next season.

Depending on the size of the harness, there's an opening on the firewall within the ECU cabinet about 1" in diameter - this makes an easy route for connecting directly to the DME or entering the engine cabin.

Here's a tech article that I posted that will show how to gain access: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329420

Feel free to call or email me directly if you should need additional help.
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      10-10-2010, 08:20 AM   #88
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Jordan,

Small world - I've actually been looking into the MXL unit to be used in a 135 for Street RWD class in Time Attack next season.

Depending on the size of the harness, there's an opening on the firewall within the ECU cabinet about 1" in diameter - this makes an easy route for connecting directly to the DME or entering the engine cabin.

Here's a tech article that I posted that will show how to gain access: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329420

Feel free to call or email me directly if you should need additional help.
Thanks for that Tom. We have been to some of the Time Attacks at Cal Speed doing support. I will read the article for sure and most likely call you on Monday. There are 2 of us at AiM that have E90/E92's and we are both having connectivity issues. What is really strange is that just yesterday I connected to a 2008 135 via the OBD port and was able to pick up CAN. It was limited but it was there. Yet on a 2008 328 and a 2007 335 it is not....???

Best,

Jordan
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