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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > GIAC---->stock--->REVII PROcede



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      09-10-2009, 08:12 PM   #23
shiv@vishnu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc31337 View Post
That comment is a bit misleading IMO. In the flash vs. piggy debate performance is due solely to the limits the tuner is willing to push. A flash should have every paramater available to tune that is available to the piggy and more...even with canbus integration. Because one tuner doesn't push as hard as the other does not mean a flash or a piggy is better, it's just that the tuner in question decided to be more conservative.

If I am incorrect please steer me in the right direction! BTW this is not a bash. I'm looking at a x35 in Nov 2010 and i'm a leaning towards the procede. I'm tinkerer at heart meaning the updates and some of the features like lean burn cruise really appeal to me.
The most obvious difference between the PROcede and GIAC flash (or any flash that I've tested personally for that matter) is the quality of boost control. The flashes all seem to sacrifice boost targeting speed for stability. And even so, there are instances were boost is poorly targeted, resulting in oscillation. With the PROcede, we can target boost much quicker by relying on supplementary boost control logic that monitors throttle opening and keeps wastegate DC at the ideal level. This is why any car, regardless of mods and run any stage and not get the random throttle closure/boost instability that flashed cars are seeing even with no or minimal modifications. This is just one example between the two approaches. The reflash approach limits the tuner by allowing him to input new data in the same existing tables. A good piggyback approach allows new tables to be created based upon engine data (and with CANbus, we can see EVERYTHING).

So, in other words, it has nothing to do with how "hard" each tune is being pushed. But the mechanics behind how it is pushed. I think/hope this is becoming more apparent as more people get to try both approaches. It's not to say that flashes wont even reach the maturity/development that the PROcede currently enjoys. But I just don't think they are at that point now.

Cheers,
Shiv
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      09-10-2009, 08:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi View Post
I believe the reason is that BMW, like any manufacturer, offers a lower reimbursement rate for the work done on warranty than the dealer charges people who are not covered by warranty. Likely dealerships, as part of their franchise agreements are required to accept this rate. This means there is a significant profit margin to be had on out of warranty and why so many dealers (BMW and others) look for any reason to not honor the warranty. If they got paid the same regardless, they would have no reason to harass their customers and create bad dealership experiences. Dealerships' actions are always designed to maximize profit.
Add to that their recent Power Kit offering and you will find BMW doing anything they can to discourage competing tunes. If you thought they were ECU update crazy before, wait till you see how they are going to be in Nov/Dec. We are going to see a lot of "I took my car in for regular servicing and my flash has been erased" posts.

Shiv
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      09-10-2009, 08:25 PM   #25
uberschnell
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As a person driven to the market for a tune (thanks BMW induced LAG ) I have to say this real world example has flipped my view of piggy vs. flash and made removability a much higher priority for me.
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