E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > most whp that can be achieved without downpipes?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-24-2009, 10:40 PM   #1
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

most whp that can be achieved without downpipes?

hey guys how much whp you guys think you can generate safely as a daily driver without downpipes!
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 10:56 PM   #2
Borsig
Captain
 
Borsig's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 335i ///M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NC

Posts: 883
iTrader: (3)

Im going to be working on this myself using the AMS FMIC, Procede, Stett intake, and a budget magnaflow catback w/ resonator delete.

Catted downs are so freakin expensive.
Borsig is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:00 PM   #3
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

ya my guess is you will be at 340 maybe? can you really crank up the proceede without downpipes? or is it to much backpressure going back into the turbos?
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:07 PM   #4
Borsig
Captain
 
Borsig's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 335i ///M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NC

Posts: 883
iTrader: (3)

340? You should be seeing that with just a tune IMO
Borsig is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:10 PM   #5
persian54
Lieutenant General
 
persian54's Avatar
 
Drives: SL550. Prev: E93 M3/335i/Z435i
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Valley, SoCal

Posts: 15,787
iTrader: (291)

Terry told me 1.4 beta is about 335whp on map 3 91 octane
persian54 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:13 PM   #6
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

so that makes sense at 10fmic and 10 for catbak and intake
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:14 PM   #7
Borsig
Captain
 
Borsig's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 335i ///M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NC

Posts: 883
iTrader: (3)

right I run 93... You should be pulling 340-350 whp on 93 with intake and exhaust IMHO...

I'll be working hard on it using the procede and its variable adjustments and the ams FMIC. May also test the JB3 on dyno as well..
Borsig is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:15 PM   #8
Borsig
Captain
 
Borsig's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 335i ///M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NC

Posts: 883
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by john boxter View Post
so that makes sense at 10fmic and 10 for catbak and intake
FMIC - a good one - is goign to give you 10 HP at stock boost..

The fmic will allow you to run alot more boost / tune, etc. and theres more to tuning than cranking up the boost. Please understand this.

Also rememebr that all dynos are different.
Borsig is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      09-24-2009, 11:28 PM   #9
orionredwing
Captain
 
Drives: 335i Sedan, 135i Coupe
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Jose

Posts: 725
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [5.00]
Dyno plots are buried here, but PROcede w/ intake or drop-in is 340-350whp.

With DPs I could crank the PROcede up to 75% UT (default is 70%). There was a noticeable by-the-butt loss of power at 80% UT. I don't think DPs alone allowed me to raise the UT values any higher over stock DPs.

My theory was I needed an FMIC to lower the IATs. Logs posted here from other users seem to show an FMIC upgrade allows the ECU to lower the boost as much as 1psi, which translates into a +10% UT on the PROcede. All you RevII guys who followed Shiv's ignition timing tuning FAQ can chime in better My FMIC was just installed yesterday so I will be testing soon

To the OP, if tune, intake, DPs, FMIC, exhaust is giving us 380-390whp ranges, then I think taking out the DP will put you in the 350-370whp range. Each car is different so don't just assume 340HP+ w/ tune + drop-in/intake.

Also consider Mustang vs Dynojet vs dyno day humidity/temp/airflow conditions. Don't get too hung up on dyno #s is what I'm saying. You may end up disappointed

The right question to ask is....how much whp gains over my stock baseline can I get using 91/93oct if I do everything except DPs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john boxter View Post
ya my guess is you will be at 340 maybe? can you really crank up the proceede without downpipes? or is it to much backpressure going back into the turbos?
__________________

PROcede | AMS FMIC | AR Catless DPs | AR Oil Cooler | BMS DCI
Wavetrac LSD | KW V3 w/ Swift Springs | M3 Front Suspension
orionredwing is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 12:18 AM   #10
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

that makes sense but are the stock downpipes that restrictive?
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 01:28 AM   #11
blisstik
Major
 
blisstik's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California

Posts: 1,321
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Yes because they have cats in them. I'm not sure how many cells but its greater than 300. I'm guessing around 600? Also, there are secondary cats which makes it even more restricted.

AR Design sells catted DPs with 300 cell cats aka high flow cats. They also sell catless DPs aka straight down pipes, which has more flow and more power than catted one's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john boxter View Post
that makes sense but are the stock downpipes that restrictive?
__________________
blisstik is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 07:48 AM   #12
OM3G@
Private
 
OM3G@'s Avatar
 
Drives: '09 AW 335i sedan
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL

Posts: 88
iTrader: (0)

I hope this isn't thread jacking, it's related so maybe only 1/2 thread jacking. I know it's illegal to remove CATs but just how illegal is it? Would it just be like a fix-it ticket or can you actually have your license suspended?
__________________

'09 AW e90 335i w/steering wheel, gas pedal, seatbelts, windshield, and much more!
OM3G@ is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 08:04 AM   #13
Borsig
Captain
 
Borsig's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 335i ///M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NC

Posts: 883
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OM3G@ View Post
I hope this isn't thread jacking, it's related so maybe only 1/2 thread jacking. I know it's illegal to remove CATs but just how illegal is it? Would it just be like a fix-it ticket or can you actually have your license suspended?

you just wont pass emissions.

If you leave on your secondaries you might still.
Borsig is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 08:07 AM   #14
Daya
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Daya's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335 space gray/coral red
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago

Posts: 1,675
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 E92 335  [4.83]
[quote=Borsig;5923469]FMIC - a good one - is goign to give you 10 HP at stock boost..

QUOTE]

I am running AMS FMIC and I got +11whp on stock boost. With the mods listed in my sig I got 300 whp and 306 wtq
__________________

GIAC S2 | Brembo GT BBK 355/345 | BBS CH-R | Michelin Pilot Super Sports | AR Design: DP, S1 Oil Cooler, OCC | AMS FMIC | Bastuck Quad Exhaust | Borla MP | KW V1 | Stett: CAI, CP | Forge DV | P3 Boost Gauge | Arkym: Front Lip, Rear Quad Diffuser | Vorsteiner CSL Trunk | LUX H8 | ModMyNav | MFD M3 Sideskirts | BMW M-Tech Front/Rear Bumpers, Edition Grills
Daya is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 09:09 AM   #15
MSPORTWORLD
Major
 
MSPORTWORLD's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 M3 MW/FR - '12 M3 FO/SC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,184
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Refer to my previous post without DP's or Intercooler. Will dyno with intercooler and new Procede maps sometime in the near future.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250979

The PROcede piggyback delivered as promised: +86whp/+87wtq

I am a very happy customer (I also found out on a stretch of closed highway that the speed delimiter works)

Vehicle Information:
-2008 E90 335i MT, 5k miles
-PROcede CANbus Stg 1 Maps
-BMS DCI & MFD Scoops
-94 Octane Sunoco
-64-65 degrees F, 29.79 in-Hg, 8% Humidity
-Correction: STD for comparison purposes

Here is the breakdown of the 5 runs (2-3 mins wait between first 4 runs, 5 mins wait between runs 4 and 5):
-Run1: Valet Mode (Essentially Stock) 284/296
-Run2: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 90% User Torque 359/370
-Run3: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 60% User Torque 322/339
-Run4: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 90% User Torque 357/367 (Verifies Repeatability)
-Run5: Stg1 Non-DD 3-24 CANbus Beta Map @ 100% User Torque 370/383

__________________
MSPORTWORLD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 09:16 AM   #16
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
 
Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

Posts: 5,180
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyplaynazn View Post
Refer to my previous post without DP's or Intercooler. Will dyno with intercooler and new Procede maps sometime in the near future.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250979

The PROcede piggyback delivered as promised: +86whp/+87wtq

I am a very happy customer (I also found out on a stretch of closed highway that the speed delimiter works)

Vehicle Information:
-2008 E90 335i MT, 5k miles
-PROcede CANbus Stg 1 Maps
-BMS DCI & MFD Scoops
-94 Octane Sunoco
-64-65 degrees F, 29.79 in-Hg, 8% Humidity
-Correction: STD for comparison purposes

Here is the breakdown of the 5 runs (2-3 mins wait between first 4 runs, 5 mins wait between runs 4 and 5):
-Run1: Valet Mode (Essentially Stock) 284/296
-Run2: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 90% User Torque 359/370
-Run3: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 60% User Torque 322/339
-Run4: Stg1 Doomsday 2-19 Map @ 90% User Torque 357/367 (Verifies Repeatability)
-Run5: Stg1 Non-DD 3-24 CANbus Beta Map @ 100% User Torque 370/383

You sure its safe to run that 100% torque with no dps and no aftermarket intercooler? Did you log the runs because it looks like there are some knock events, especially at the end of that 370 rwhp run.
Former_Boosted_IS is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 10:11 AM   #17
MSPORTWORLD
Major
 
MSPORTWORLD's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 M3 MW/FR - '12 M3 FO/SC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,184
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
You sure its safe to run that 100% torque with no dps and no aftermarket intercooler? Did you log the runs because it looks like there are some knock events, especially at the end of that 370 rwhp run.
This was basically done as a glory run so I did not do any datalogging. Keep in mind that this is also the 3-24 maps which defaulted to 90% user torque so 100% on stage 1 is nothing too crazy.
__________________
MSPORTWORLD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 10:17 AM   #18
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
 
Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

Posts: 5,180
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyplaynazn View Post
This was basically done as a glory run so I did not do any datalogging. Keep in mind that this is also the 3-24 maps which defaulted to 90% user torque so 100% on stage 1 is nothing too crazy.
It does show up on run 2 and 5 though at 6000-6500 rpms. I am not saying it was anything major, but you could have been pushing your octane and not something people should expect to run daily on their car. With only intake.
Former_Boosted_IS is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 11:01 AM   #19
Yinger
Lieutenant
 
Yinger's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i e92 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 415
iTrader: (14)

Garage List
2009 e92 335i  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to Yinger
i got 360 rwhp without downpipes... haven't tried dynoing it with downpipes on though.
Yinger is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 03:46 PM   #20
645Nm
only in it for the torque - awuleth'umshini wami
 
645Nm's Avatar
 
Drives: sapphire black 335i
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nomad

Posts: 425
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i sedan  [0.00]
2005 120D  [0.00]
2007 335i sedan  [0.00]
Converted from KW & Nm:

391.58 HP
417.40 lb/ft

RPI FMIC
BMW perf exhaust
K&N drop-in filter
JB3 Map 8
Race gas (100 oct)

My goal: 412 HP with the new JB 1.4 beta on map 9 and 105 (oct)
__________________

JB4. 15ohm /Catless DPs/BMS DCI/BHS Oil Catch Can/RPI FMIC/Bilstein B16/BMW Perf Exhaust/BMW Perf Rims 19'/BMW Perf Steering Wheel/BMS Meth Kit/CMGS Guage/BMS Speed Limiter Defeat/STETT Chargepipe & DV's/DREAMLIST:Upgraded Turbos
REVIEWS: Bilstein B16 Ridecontrol//BMW Performance Exhaust//RPI Intercooler//Race Camara Mount
645Nm is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
      09-25-2009, 03:58 PM   #21
john boxter
Captain
 
Drives: 2008 e93
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: long Island New York

Posts: 763
iTrader: (3)

but are downpipes more of a safety measurment
john boxter is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-26-2009, 07:58 AM   #22
645Nm
only in it for the torque - awuleth'umshini wami
 
645Nm's Avatar
 
Drives: sapphire black 335i
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nomad

Posts: 425
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335i sedan  [0.00]
2005 120D  [0.00]
2007 335i sedan  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by john boxter View Post
but are downpipes more of a safety measurment
catless DPs will unlock serious HPower. My DPs will go back on after i have achieved my 400 odd HP goal...want to do it just for my own personal record.

John, the real question one has to ask is: What is your goal with the car?
You see if you want better fuel consumption and better performance from you car compared to stock than a tune (whether piggyback or software tuned) is more than adequate and many drivers including myself will be more than happy for many years to come...my 120d a good example - i had it for 4 years now and chipped it a month after purchasing...she has deen doing fine (fuel consumption amazing) since then and i have not felt the need to do ANY other mods to the car other than the tune. I also chipped (only) two other vehicles of mine for precisely the same reason.

But my goal with my one 335i is entirely different. Every mod so far has been to create a performance oriented street machine with strong 0 - 100 sprint times...that might not win every street race but that can compete fiercely...thats why i started with a great aftermarket suspension to create a solid foundation...also my performance needs is not always suitable for daily cruising...this is a sacrifice i am willing to make since the 120d or another fulfills the daily requirements.

Of course i have not achieved all my goals yet, but each mod must contribute to it. Hope i was not off topic and talking shit now...
__________________

JB4. 15ohm /Catless DPs/BMS DCI/BHS Oil Catch Can/RPI FMIC/Bilstein B16/BMW Perf Exhaust/BMW Perf Rims 19'/BMW Perf Steering Wheel/BMS Meth Kit/CMGS Guage/BMS Speed Limiter Defeat/STETT Chargepipe & DV's/DREAMLIST:Upgraded Turbos
REVIEWS: Bilstein B16 Ridecontrol//BMW Performance Exhaust//RPI Intercooler//Race Camara Mount
645Nm is offline   South Africa
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST